Happiness for Cynics
This week, Marie and Pete talk about ‘The Great Resignation’ and how many people are looking for a better, more fulfilling work-life balance.
Show notes
Article in THE CONVERSATION on Work-Life Balance by Lis Ku, Senior Lecturer in Psychology, De Montfort University
Work-life balance: what really makes us happy might surprise you
Transcript
[Happy intro music -background]
M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.
P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.
M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.
P: Plus, sometimes I think we’re kind of funny.
[Intro music fadeout]
P: And we’re back.
M: And we’re back. How’s it going?
P: Oh, very well. Very well, you know, it’s a lovely spring stormy weather in October in Sydney and we’ve had thunderstorms and rain and all sorts of interesting things going on. But we are, we are out and about here in Sydney.
M: Freedom!
P: Laughter, which is lovely, even though I haven’t changed a single thing yet. I haven’t had a coffee in a cafe yet or anything like that.
M: Me neither.
P: But I can if I choose.
M: But it’s been horrible weather this week.
P: Laugh.
M: You know that photo at the end of World War two of the soldier kissing the young lady in the streets as everyone celebrates freedom.
P: Yeah, yep.
M: That has been top of mind this week for me. I feel like we’re celebrating the end of a war or some horrible period in our lives.
P: Interesting, laugh.
M: And ironically, I’ve done nothing different this week. I’ve worked from home.
P: Laugh.
M: We did have dinner, though. Last night, actually.
P: We did. We had more than five people in the house, which felt lovely because it was a birthday. Happy birthday, Michael.
M: Happy birthday Michael. But aside from that, not really much has changed, laugh.
P: Well, I was walking around the streets near my work on Monday, which was our first day of release here in Sydney, and it did feel odd. There were tables on the streets again. Everything was open.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: Oddly, the second hand clothing store was busy as anything –
M: Laugh.
P: – which I thought was hilarious, laugh.
M: ‘Cause everyone’s put on the covid 10 [pounds], laugh.
P: Laugh, yes. But it was, it was almost a surreal feeling of going, ‘Oh, that’s right. This was –
M: Normal.
P: What was normal before and there was a real… There was a happiness, dare I say it pun intended, and walking out of work that night and seeing people in the pub sitting around having a glass of wine and seeing separate groups of people sitting.
M: Seeing crowds.
P: Yeah.
M: I went to the shops the other day and I felt a bit claustrophobic or crowded.
P: Laugh.
M: You know? It feels… there’s a real lightness and party and volume of people out.
P: Which is great when you’ve had a period of denial. It’s the lovely release afterwards. It’s like, Yeah, we can do whatever we want! Well, within reason.
M: We’ll see. We’ll see if pay for this freedom.
P: Laugh.
M: But it is, it is wonderful to be feeling this finally in Australia.
P: Yeah.
M: We are lagging many other countries from that point of view, but overall have really managed covid quite well from a illness and death perspective.
P: Yes, we’re very fortunate here.
M: So that’s, that’s the price that we’ve paid, I think.
P: Yeah, definitely. But on another note, congratulations are in order.
M: Aww… Shucks 😊
P: I am sitting here in the presence of a certified Happiness Trainer, laugh!
M: Happiness practitioner, thank you. Laugh!
P: Happiness Practitioner. I’m sorry, let’s get the title right. This week Marie finished her course. Her first course happiness.
M: Not my first. I’ve done a range of other little bits and bobs, but this was a full year course.
P: This was a big one, wasn’t it?
M: Yeah, this was a big one. And now I’m… you know, life is too short, I have too many pipe dreams and I don’t know which one I’m gonna… you know, pursue next. But in my mind is how can I open a Sydney Happiness Centre?
P: Laugh, I’d love to see what a happiness centre looks like. Just fluffy things to fall on lots of furs and you know, tactile –
M: Well, happiness is subjective, isn’t it?
P: Oh, yes.
M: So, it would be a very flexible space with a lot of diversity and activities. Anyway, we are four minutes in –
P: Laugh.
M: – and have a great topic to talk about something that I’ve been watching really closely. We’re talking about work-life balance and the great resignation. And we are looking at this because of a great article on the conversation by a senior lecturer in psychology at De Montfort University, Lis Ku. And she’s had a look at how our expectations, work-life balance, have evolved over covid.
P: Mmm hmm.
M: And all of us, in Corporate world in particular, anyone who’s on linked-in with any frequency would have seen that there is this phenomenon around the world that Corporates are watching, which is called the Great Resignation.
P: Sounds like the Great Depression or something like that.
M: It is.
P: Is it a global movement?
M: Absolutely.
P: Oh, wow.
M: Australia is lagging a little bit because we’ve only just started opening up and we’re only starting to find a new normal. Whereas in the UK, they locked down, I think, in 2020 and never went back, laugh.
P: Yeah.
M: The US did a similar sort of thing. They’ve been fully open for a while now, and what all these large Corporates are finding is that people are sick of them.
P: Laugh.
M: Sick of it, done.
P: I’m done. I’m leaving. I’m leaving the building. I’m taking my ball and going home, laugh.
M: Yeah, exactly.
P: Laugh.
M: And to the point that – generally, when people quit their jobs, they would have lined up something else.
P: Ok.
M: But people are so annoyed or over it, or they’ve had this pent-up, you know, dissatisfaction with their employer for the last 18 months and haven’t been sure about the economy and have stayed longer than they normally would have.
P: Ok.
M: And they’re so frustrated now that they’re leaving without even having another job lined up.
P: Mmm.
M: And that’s the unusual part here.
P: Is that in part due to the fact that there’s been a shakeup of priorities and there’s been a change in what we value?
M: Yes! Yes!
P: Due to the pandemic.
M: We want more and women in particular want equity if we’re going to take a larger role at home. I want to work from home and not have to commute two hours so that I can put the load of laundry on.
P: Mmm, yeah.
M: And I can’t cook a healthy meal for my family, for instance. Now, I’m not going to make this about gender.
P: Laugh.
M: Get back off my soapbox.
P: Laugh.
M: But what working from home has allowed many people to do is better balance their own personal needs.
P: I couldn’t agree more, I’ve noticed it in health. We have been flat chat, and I’m not just talking about myself. I’m talking about every health professional that I know has been super busy because people can manage their days better and they’re much more flexible so they can come in for the three o’clock appointment –
M: Mmm hmm.
P: – and be able to see their Chiro, Dr or Physio or Massage Therapist, because they have that flexibility and that ability to stack their day out.
M: Yep.
P: And I think that’s –
M: And why would we give that up?
P: Well, I don’t think we should. The Scandinavians have been proving this since the year 2000.
M: So, someone needs to tell the CEOs.
P: Laugh, really?
M: Really… The Tech industry CEOs have cottoned on.
P: Oh, really.
M: A lot of them have said, ‘we’re actually going to get rid of our office’, and unfortunately, that is not going to serve the needs of the extroverts who have been craving more team time.
P: Contact, yes.
M: Yes.
P: And people time.
M: So that’s one extreme. The other extreme is organisations that are led often by extroverts who have been craving that team time and missing the communication and the incidental discussions and conversations and ideas and innovation that happens when –
P: Around the water cooler.
M: Yep. And so, they’ve decided that everyone needs to come back in for five days a week, as we used to do, starting Monday. See you all then.
P: Laugh. But that’s a little bit unrealistic in this new climate, isn’t it?
M: You would think so. These people run large corporations –
P: Laughter!
M: – and they haven’t cottoned on to it yet despite ‘The Great Resignation’. And people are leaving in droves. So, you’ve got those people who are keen to come back into the office and even the extroverts – often the stats are showing – don’t want to come back in five days a week.
P: No, that’s what I’m hearing. Everybody wants a 2-to-3-day split.
M: Yep. And then you’ve got those who just don’t want to come back into the office.
P: Laugh!
M: They’ve been more productive.
P: Yes!
M: So, this big experiment that we went through has shown that people are more productive when they work from home than they were in the office because they get in and they do their work. They’re not having those water cooler conversations.
P: Mmm.
M: So, the work may not be as good a quality, but they’re pumping through it faster. So, there is a trade-off for both things, right?
P: Oh, ok.
M: They’re getting more done and they’re sick of their leaders telling them, ‘It’s good for you to come in.’ For a lot of people –
P: It’s not.
M: Well, I’m one of them. I’ve had better mental health during Covid than I did before because I’ve got two hours back a day.
P: Yes, and that’s a lot of time.
M: It is.
P: I’m acutely aware of having 15 minutes to myself with my schedule.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: And an hour, an hour goes quickly. But when you’ve got that extra hour, there’s so much that you can actually achieve.
M: And I’ve got a heavily scheduled week and giving two hours back a day.
P: That’s huge.
M: Yep, it means a lot of things that I do for my well-being, I will no longer be able to do.
P: Mmm.
M: That’s what it means to me when someone says, ‘come back into the office and it will be good for your well-being.’
P: Sarcastic laugh.
M: Weellll….
P: Laugh. So, what is the balance between the Great Resignation and what it’s, what it’s done for our work-life expectations?
M: So, our expectations have changed, and I think that we’re now we’re entering a period of our human history where individuals and equity are a much more palatable conversation.
P: Mmm.
M: So, people are voting with their feet, just like they are voting with their money. When it comes to corporations that don’t follow the expectations that we have of them.
P: Yep, or investments, or all those sorts of financial decisions that used to be all that you go with the safe option now it’s like no, I go with the ahh… what’s the word I’m after?
M: The ethical option.
P: Yeah, that’s it.
M: Yeah. So, just like people are using their spending money to influence change. The Great Resignation is people walking from these companies to others that are willing to offer them five days a week from home if that’s what they want, or two days a week in the office, not five, or an organisation that will treat them well like a human being –
P: Laugh.
M: – during the most significant period of upheaval and change that a lot of people will face in their entire lives.
P: Yeah.
M: So, there’s two things going on here. There’s the change in expectations and the mismatch between what some organisations are expecting people to go back to and what people actually want.
P: Mmm.
M: There’s also a backlash against those organisations that didn’t manage the change well during Covid.
P: Mmm.
M: So, a lot of people are just fed up with the big machine of these Corporates and being treated like a number and not having good management or good bosses and good team environments. All of those things that make up what we would normally call employee engagement.
P: Right.
M: But really, no one wakes up and says, ‘I’m really hoping to be engaged at work today.’
P: Laughter! Well…
M: No one does that, but what they do do, and what I’ve done is, ‘you know what? I’m really not happy here. I’m going to go to another employer. I’m going to start looking for another job.’
P: The concept in this article that I find interesting, is that people are packing up and leaving without the option of another job to go to. That speaks a lot to that there’s been a… This happens when we have great events in society and history. This happened at the end of the World War, Great Depression, even fiscal crises. People make, not rash decisions, but they’re more inclined to make riskier decisions. Would that be fair to say?
M: You’d have to wait for a bit for a rebound out the back of those because of your economy. So, people feeling… What people are feeling right now is a certain level of confidence in their economies that there will be another job out there.
P: Right, ok.
M: And that safety net is there. That means they can take that risky move.
P: Is it just an economical perspective, or is it a ‘We’ve gone through… We’ve had our parameters change, we’ve had our thought processes changed about what’s important and what’s valuable. I haven’t got something to go to, but I’m going to make the jump and create it or create the opportunity.’
M: ‘I’m going to make the jump, and I trust there will be something there because the economy hasn’t tanked.’
P: Mmm.
M: I think if the economy had tanked, people would continue and that’s why they didn’t move for 18 months, right?
P: Yeah.
M: Because they were waiting to see whether you know you don’t want to start a new job. First one in, first one out, rule. Right?
P: Yes.
M: So, there is a little bit of that play into this, but you’re absolutely right, historically, traditionally, most people prefer to line up another job before they quit their current job.
P: Yep. And that’s not happening.
M: And we’re not seeing that.
P: Yeah, interesting.
M: Sorry, with a larger proportion of people, we’re not seeing that.
P: I like it. I’m a bit of a chaos believer and dive in the deep end.
M: Laugh!
P: So, I like it. This is my comfort space. I’ll just pack up everything and move to London without a job and, you know, I’ll figure it out when I get there, laugh.
M: I’m definitely an optimist when it comes to that uncertainty, however, I am also a planner.
P: Mmm.
M: So, I would… Again, it would depend how fed up I am.
P: Yeah, right.
M: And I’m not currently fed up, so if I was looking for another job. I’d probably wait to find it before I quit my current one.
P: Ok.
M: But there are many people out there who are so dissatisfied with the work life balance and also the virtual office environment that they’ve or physical office environment that they’ve been in for the last 18 months –
P: And they’ve chosen to opt out.
M: – they’re just walking, yep.
P: Let’s speak to the other part of the article, which actually talks about balancing our leisure time and our work time and that, that kind of idea that all you want to do is walk on the beach all day. Does that actually bring about true happiness for us Marie?
M: I love where this article goes, and we’ll post a link to it. But this is what is discussed further on, is work life a tension that we shouldn’t have it all?
P: Mmm.
M: Right, so Lis talks about how there have been studies in which people look at whether or not people would prefer to not work at all.
P: Yes.
M: And there’s also just moments in life where you don’t work at all. So, if you’ve been made redundant, if you retire, there’s been lots of work with people who have won the Lotto and don’t need to work.
P: Yes, yes.
M: And time and time again, these studies show that people get less life satisfaction. Your ego takes a hit. Your sense of self-worth takes a hit if you don’t work.
P: Mmm.
M: So, you really do need work to contribute to your happiness.
P: I think this goes back to a conversation in one of the episodes we’ve talked before about having purpose and meaning.
M: Mmm hmm
P: And also I’m going to throw the word passion in there.
M: Yes.
P: I think the people that negotiate these changes and you’re… you can speak to this with a lot more authority than I can Marie. But people who go through retiring, winning the lottery, for example, if they find a passion that they can invest their time and energy into that, gives them purpose.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: That makes them wake up in the morning going ‘right, I’ve got this to do today’, and it gives them a certain amount of structure that leads to greater life satisfaction ergo happiness.
M: Absolutely. There are so many studies that show having purpose not necessarily having work is important.
P: Mmm.
M: Contributing and being a part of something bigger than yourself, serving others. There are so many different ways that you can bring that to life.
P: Mmm.
M: Or, you know, working for a pay check where you feel pride for the contribution that you make towards whatever it is your organisation does or your company or you know, you’re whatever work it is you do.
P: Yeah.
M: That has such a big impact on our well-being and also contributes a large part to our identity, particularly in Western society.
P: Yeah, pretty much.
M: So, America, Australia, England. You ask –
P: You are you’re job. ‘What do you do for work?’
M: Exactly. So, without that, we lose not only, you know, the well-being part of that we lose part of our identity and then part of the pride that comes with being able to answer that question well.
P: Mmm.
M: “What do you do?”
“I’m unemployed.”
P: Laugh.
M: Comes with a sense of shame in our society.
P: Yes, yes, definitely.
M: Back to your question about work-life and the false-tension that we’re implying by putting that dash between those two words.
P: Yes.
M: There’s another study that talks about how much free time is a good amount of time. So, when we talk about work life, the thing that we’re often complaining about is that work takes up too much time and we don’t have time to do all the other things we want to do.
P: Yes. ‘I just want to read a book all day.’
M: Yeah, I want to read a book, I want to see my friends, I want to travel the world, I want to go play sports. I want to, you know, if have had more time I’d go to the gym.
P: Laugh!
M: Uh huh… No, you wouldn’t let’s be really, really frank here Marie.
P: Laugh.
M: I can’t remember the last time you got off your ass and went to the gym.
P: Laugh.
M: So, we… But we think and we convince ourselves that if we just had more work-life balance. In other words, if we worked a five-hour day or if we work three days a week, not five days a week or, you know, skin a cat however you want. But what the studies show is that there is such a thing as too much free time.
P: Mmm, I like this idea.
M: Mmm hmm. And anywhere more than five hours of free time in a day starts to impact on your well-being.
P: Yep.
M: And that is, you know, an eight-hour workday and five hours on either side and a good night’s sleep. That’s pretty much meaning that if you work a 40-hour week, that’s where your optimum work level should sit.
P: Yeah.
M: I don’t think I believe it.
P: Laugh, really? I kind of do.
M: It’s the science though sometimes Pete.
P: See I wasn’t looking from the scientific perspective at all. I’m looking at it from my own experience. I know I’m happier when I am busy and doing things, so when you’ve got things to sink your teeth into, it’s like I can’t wait to get home. And even with my study.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: It’s like sometimes I’m really keen to get home and open the anatomy books and go, Yeah, I’m enjoying this. I’m enjoying engaging with this content.
M: So, I think that’s where I’m struggling in that I have so many side projects.
P: Laugh, yeah you do.
M: So many side projects that give me that same sense of well-being and passion and purpose and meaning and identity that sit on top of my 40-hour day job. So maybe I’m in a different situation here, yeah.
P: So, Lis Ku talks about the idea of eudaimonic happiness.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: And the definition that she gives is that this is derived from optimal functioning and realising our potential.
M: So that’s one way that you can fill your week, I think.
P: She does give a couple of… there’s three different types of happiness that she talks about.
M: Yeah and there’s a study that she references, which aligns nicely to a topic we discussed, The Psychologically Rich Life, a few episodes ago.
P: Yes.
M: So, in this study, they say, across nine countries and tens of thousands of participants, researchers found that most people, so, over 50% are still unfortunately aiming towards a happy life typified by hedonic happiness.
P: Mmm.
M: So that’s that treadmill we were talking about.
P: Yeah, yeah.
M: Bigger house, bigger car, etc.
P: Getting, getting the goals instead of a [meaningful life].
M: Mmm hmm. And that shows that little podcast here is not reaching enough people.
P: Laugh!
M: Right?
P: Yet. Yet!
M: Yet, laugh. The second is that about a quarter prefer a meaningful life embodied by eudaimonic happiness, that you just mentioned. And that’s meaning and purpose and all of the good things that we talk about. And then there’s the third group of people. So, about 10 to 15% in each country who choose to pursue a rich and diverse experiential life.
P: I’m so in that category.
M: Well, I kind of think two and three are sort of mixed in for me. I think they’re both just as important.
P: I think there’s a difference. I think there’s a very chaotic, throw caution to the wind attitude in that last experiential category that doesn’t exist necessarily in the eudaimonic happiness one.
M: Ok. Well, I want both. I want my cake and I want to eat it too.
P: Laugh. Well, you can have both.
M: And you know what? I’m happy with a bit of hedonism thrown in.
P: Laugh! I get into my car and I always say, ‘Good morning, gorgeous, it is so nice to sit in you.’
M: Aww.
P: Laugh. That was actually my surviving mechanism for covid in my five-minute commute to work for 2.5 kilometres, driving with the top down, I was in a happy space.
M: So, I think that that balanced with your studies, balanced with your work, balanced with all of these different things. So having a little bit of hedonistic happiness in there as well as a meaningful life and also that experiential life and having the balance across all of that and work can play in all three of those spaces at different times.
P: Very true. It can give the passion to drive a little bit in there.
M: Yep, work can feature in all three. That is work-life balance.
P: What a lovely way to finish the episode, from our accredited Happiness Practitioner.
M & P: Laughter!
M: All right, well on that note, wishing you all a happy week and we’ll see you next time.
P: Chow, chow.
[Happy exit music – background]
M: Thanks for joining us today if you want to hear more, please remember to subscribe and like this podcast and remember you can find us at www.marieskelton.com, where you can also send in questions or propose a topic.
P: And if you like our little show, we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.
M: Until next time.
M & P: Choose happiness.
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