Happiness for Cynics podcast
This week, Marie and Pete talk about the smell of happiness and how researchers are bottling it to help treat nervous disorders.
Show notes
During the podcast Pete mentions research done in Austria to teach a dog to smell COVID. Please click on the following article to read further. Austrian military dog sniffs out COVID-19
Transcript
[Happy intro music -background]
M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.
M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.
P: Plus, sometimes I think we’re kind of funny.
P: Can I just say I miss our foreplay?
M: Laughter.
P: With this pre-recording of the intro, I’m not sure I like it. Laugh.
M: Yep.
P: I kinda get sprung, it’s like coming out of the bath with a towel around you going Aahh!
M: Laugh! We go straight into it.
P: Laugh.
M: Yeah, having said that doing the same intro with slight tweaks every single time was really getting on my nerves.
P: See, I found it really fun.
M: I’m happy with a quickie. I don’t need foreplay.
P: Yeah, you’ve been married for how many years, laugh.
M: Laugh.
P: Laughter! Welcome to this week’s episode, laugh.
M: And Happy International Day of Happiness Pete.
P: Oh my goodness! Has it been a year?
M: It has, since we launched.
P: Weee! De, de, de, de [Award ceremony theme] Can I take my pants off?
M: …Ah. Sure.
P: It’s what I do when I’m happy, you know that, laugh.
M: It is, it is. Normally you’ve had a few drinks though.
P: See I’m doing it even without alcohol isn’t that even better?
M: Whatever floats your boat.
P & M: Laughter!
M: So since we are talking, ah this is our episode one year in.
P: Wow.
M: I wanted to start with just a quick chat about how you’re tracking with your Happiness Pete?
P: Oooh. Not a good week to ask.
M: That’s really good, because life happens.
P: Life does happen. Yeah, life gets busy. Life gets hectic. I’m in the throes of closing down a business and starting up another one and starting university and trying to balance that with all sorts of other things. Yes, I’ve got for four plates in the air at the moment, like the little Chinese plates on the spinning sticks.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: One’s wobbling, laugh.
M: Yep and is that your happiness? Are you prioritising your happiness right now?
P: Ah, good question. I have, it’s interesting with the work that we have done.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: I am very proud of the fact that I am still setting aside time for myself to exercise.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: I am setting aside time for myself to cook.
M: Good, yep.
P: I got to cook this week, which is really nice because [Cookie Monster voice] “I love cooking!”
M: Yes, we do know that, laugh.
P: I adore cooking. So, those kind of activities instead of going ‘No, I haven’t got time. I’m going to let that plate drop’, today I went ‘No, I’m going to take half hour and I’m going to make myself a nice chicken lunch, and I’m going to sit down in front of the television and watch the opening credits of Doctor Zhivago.
M: You lost me at the end there.
P: Laugh.
M: But I’m happy that you’re prioritising happiness because I think one of the main reasons that so many people are burning out is that we were never taught to live. We were never given permission to prioritise our own needs at times. And women in particular I know, feel this a lot, that guilt about taking time for themselves when they’ve got family and other commitments.
P: Yes.
M: But men, too. And also we were never taught how to live even if we did get past that guilt.
P: Laugh!
M: What is it that I need to do? And it’s not eating fatty, sugary foods and, you know, indulging in alcohol and all those other things. It is all the things we discuss on this show. They bring people happiness.
P: Mmm.
M: So I think it’s really important that you and I in particular are human, because everyone gets this wrong at times.
P: Yeah. Well, I guess that’s the thing isn’t it, that we all have to be kind enough to ourselves to allow that space and when you do take a half hour break, don’t begrudge yourself from it. And if that little voice inside your head starts rearing his little red head, that’s all right, you can push him down because this sort of stuff is really important.
M: Yep.
P: And with all the research that we have done over the past year. It was really easy for me to go, ‘Yeah, na, I’m gonna to sit down, have some food.’
M: That’s so Aussie.
P: Laugh!
M: Yeah, na.
P: Yeah na! Laugh.
M: How’s your sleep going?
P: Oh, well, surprisingly well. Actually, I’m Yeah, I’m waking up a bit, but yeah, I’m getting up early.
M: Are you getting enough sleep?
P: Possibly not, no. I’m getting enough. Technically, I’m getting enough. I’m getting about 6.5 to 7 hours from the research that I have done 7 hours is the minimum from stuff that I’ve done in the Sleep Institute down in Melbourne.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: Dr Ian [not a Doctor], Professor Ian Hickie and all those guys. So, yeah, I am getting about seven… I can’t read that, so there’s no point in crossing it out, laugh.
M: I’m covering it up. So today’s episode, we’re about to dive into it after we get through the International Happiness Day intro.
P: Oh, alright.
M: But it’s all a surprise for Pete. I came across this article and this research and I’ll be leading you blindly through it, laugh!
P: Laugh, she’s about to spring it on me. Petie doesn’t know quite what’s going to happen.
M & P: Laughter.
M: All right well shall we get to it? Shall we get into the topic of today’s episode?
P: You’re in charge, laugh.
M: Which is The Smell of Happiness.
P: Laughter!
M: So today we’re going to talk about a great piece of research that they found on the European Commission’s EU research and innovation magazine about the smell of happiness.
P: I love it. I love it.
M: So, Pete, what smells making you happy?
P: Oooh. Fresh bread.
M: Ah, Bakery. Just walking past any bakery.
P: Yeah, bakery, bakery and butter. Ah, fresh bread definitely makes me happy. I got some lovely flowers this week and I smelt some rose, which was really nice.
M: Awe…
P: So, yeah.
M: I love lemon. Like any lemon and anything lemon scented.
P: Yeah, wow.
M: Love it. Like lemon grass, really strong.
P: Yeah.
M: Yeah.
P: The smell of my herbs make me happy, now that you’re talking about lemons.
M: Mmm.
P: Yeah. If I go into my herb garden and you know, dig around, poke around your hands, smell all thyme-ie, basil-ie and oregano-ish.
M & P: Laughter.
M: Great words, those.
P: Laugh.
M: But we get it.
P: Yeah, And I guess that smell comes out when it’s raining, which it is pouring down at the moment.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: So yeah, that’s very that’s a very vibrant smell, that’s a happy smell.
M: Yep, happy smell.
P: And is that because you, you in general, we in general, as human’s associate actions with those smells, or is it purely the smells?
M: Or memories as well?
P: Yeah, I think it’s memories and meaning behind it.
M: Yep.
P: So for me, my herb garden is a source of happiness. So naturally the smell of herbs are going to make me go “sniff, oh yeah that’s my herb garden”.
M: I think so. I think, it’s triggering happy thoughts.
P: Yeah.
M: So we’re not going to talk about all those happy smells.
P: Ok, laugh.
M: What we’re going to talk about it is some work that a professor at the Department of Information Engineering at the University of Pisa, Italy, so Enzo Pasquale Scilingo.
P: Oh, I love it. Enzo, Enzooo!
M: …So Enzo is doing some work –
P: Laugh.
M: – on a project called Potion.
P: Ooh!
M: Which is researching chemosignals. So they’re the different scents our bodies produce when we feel happy or afraid.
P: Yes.
M: So they’re actually odourless, but they’re believed to trigger happiness or fear in others and impact on people social interaction.
P: I have read a little bit about this, yes.
M: Yes, so it’s like a virus.
P: Laugh.
M: If I’m scared, you won’t know why, but you’ll also start to feel fear unconsciously.
P: It’s picking up on that fear.
M: Yes.
P: It’s picking up on the emotions of someone else and if you’re empathetic as well, taking it on board.
M: Definitely empathy would play a role there but this is all about the… is it olfactory?
P: Yes.
M: It’s all about the olfactory sense, so he’s doing research into smell and odour.
P: Oh, interesting. I like it.
M: Absolutely, so in the same vein the smell of happiness can make other people happy. So if you know happy people, make sure you hug them.
P & M: Laugh!
P: Well touch is my love language, so I’m good.
M: Get nice and close, laugh.
P: Laugh, can I put my nose in your armpit?
M: Just get your nose in there.
P & M: Laughter!
M: So, Enzo hopes that scientists can produce a spray, a happiness spray.
P: Laugh! He’s bottling it!
M: Like perfume. Have you read Perfume the book?
P: Yes, I read it. Oh, no I havn’t read it I’ve seen the movie though.
M: Yes.
P: Wonderful.
M: Yes, absolutely. So, bottling happiness is the goal. And he hopes he can do it within a few years.
P: Wow.
M: And one of the reasons why this is so important and particularly in light of COVID-19 is the horrible mental health stats around the world right now, particularly with young people, anxiety and depression are just on the rise and a happiness spray could actually help to –
P: I like that idea.
M: -negate that.
P: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
M: All right.
P: I wonder if you could use it as deodorant?
M: Hmm. Where do you spray it?
P: I could say something but it would be really, really offensive.
M & P: Laugh!
M: This is a G rated, actually no it’s more like a PG rated show, definitely not G rated.
P: Laugh.
M: We started with foreplay today.
P: We did, laugh. We jumped straight in there.
M: M. M rated.
P: Well it would make sense to sprayed in the areas where other hormone secretions are coming out, so you around the around the neck or into the armpits, or even down around the folds of the hips or the butt.
M: Depends if it’s for you or for others?
P: True.
M: Yep, I think.
P: I immediately went to others actually.
M: Mmm, you were trying to make everyone else happy.
P: I’m trying to make everyone touch me!
M & P: Laughter.
M: I’m so not surprised we ended up there.
P & M: Laughter!
P: Pulse points, I guess yeah.
M: All right, So let’s look at how it works or what they’re trying to do.
P: Yeah, let’s look at the science behind it because I’m intrigued by this.
M: So researchers start by using videos to induce fear or happiness. So they’re looking at the difference between the two. Obviously, you’ve always gotta have a baseline or a test, you know, something to test against. So they’re using fear and happiness.
P: Yep.
M: So they sit people down in front of movies on make them laugh a lot or get scared. And then they collect their sweat to analyse which chemical compounds are released with each emotion.
P: Mmm. Yep.
M: Okay, they then will synthesise the odours and investigate how they induce emotions in others. So remember a while ago we spoke about people going down a line and smelling sweat. This kind of similar, laugh.
P: Ah… Oh yeah.
M: There’s a lot of work[/research] into sweat, and I think it’s such an unexplored field from, laugh – I mean I’m not an expert in sweat by any means.
P: Laugh.
M: But if there’s a whole lot of unconscious or subconscious things going on that we, because we’re not dogs with an acute sense of smell or something, just don’t know are happening.
P: Mmm.
M: And this is just such a fascinating field, I think.
P: Yeah, yeah.
M: So anyway, eventually, they’re hoping to use people’s responses to Happy Sweat to help psychiatrists understand more about different aspects of phobias and depression, and to maybe helping treatment or compliment traditional therapies for phobias or depression or anxiety.
P: Now that’s interesting, because there is a lot of olfactory use in traditional medicine in terms of herbs and tinctures, using smell as one of the senses that you manipulate if it were, to try and calm, relax, meditate or excite.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: Get people excited, so pepper for example gets people excited. It gets people going and fires things up a little bit more.
M: Would you spray someone else’s sweat on you?
P: I have no problem with it, in the name of science I will do all things.
M: Laugh. If you twisted my arm…
P & M: Laughter!
M: Ok…
P: Are you gonna pay me?
P: Do I get a free lunch?
M: Probably, if you want to go to Italy.
P: Oh, go and see Enzo, yes!
M & P: Laugh.
P: I like this idea, I think it’s intriguing because it’s using more of what we have available, and it’s investigating areas that perhaps have been overlooked.
M: Yeah, and I think smell is one of those areas.
P: Definitely. Yeah, when you think about it, it’s very powerful. And as we said before, it brings about memories. So especially in the same way that music can bring about memories that helps with people with dementia and Parkinson’s. Maybe this is a way of triggering happy memories for people. So, for people who are suffering from anxiety or psychological stress or even post-traumatic stress disorder.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: This might be another way to manipulate those senses and try and bring about contended memories to balance out the negativity-
M: Better well-being.
P: – and experiences, yeah.
M: Yeah, definitely. So one of the other areas that the researchers have looked into is how odours impact people’s social interactions.
P: Oooh.
M: Yes, so they’re looking at how people have a sense of inclusion or exclusion from others. And previous research into this area has found that a person’s emotional state can influence how they respond to other people but also how others respond to them. And now we would have traditionally without this view said that that would have been more of an empathy or, you know, just sensing that someone else is uncomfortable around you.
P: Yeah.
M: That kind of a reaction. So this takes that further, so if you go into a room and you’re nervous networker.
P: Mmm, yes.
M: You’re making it worse for yourself, and I know that’s just screwed up, right?
P: Laugh.
M: That is so, so tough to overcome if you’re a nervous person, same if you’re a speaker you probably can’t smell the speaker on stage though.
P: Not in a large space.
M: If you’re a speaker in a small room and you’re really nervous. What you’re sending out to people from an odour of perspective is what’s going to come back at you.
P: It comes back to that old saying, you know, predators can smell fear.
M: Absolutely.
P: Dogs or aggressive beasts can smell the fear in you.
M: Yep, absolutely. So if someone is feeling fear when they come in, then people are less likely to trust them.
P: Mmm, definitely.
M: And you don’t bond as well.
P: No, it’s a definite barrier.
M: And people will be wary of you and the reverse is true for happiness. And I’ve definitely seen this, happy people I just gravitate towards them.
P: Completely. I saw it this week in a meeting. Someone who is usually quite jovial has had a bit of a rough month and I noticed it a couple of weeks ago and then this week I noticed a complete change in that person’s demeanour and the way they were greeting people.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: And I went, ‘Yeah, you’ve turned it around’ and you can buy into that. Buy into it. You notice it.
M: Yep.
P: Very clearly, especially with people that you know well.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: It’s very easy to get that sense of energy if you like and this is where it does get a bit esoteric, people saying, ‘I’m feeling this from you’. Maybe there’s a scientific basis to that. Maybe we are picking up on scents. Or instead of picking up on energy vibrations.
M: Absolutely. So, there’s a Dr Lisa Roux, in France, who works at the Interdisciplinary Institute for Neuroscience in France, and she says that humans use our sense of smell way more than we think.
P: Mmm.
M: So, it’s more unconscious. But we’re realising more and more that smell is so important to social interaction.
P: Hmm.
M: Which is kind of a bit creepy, but there it is. And one of the things that we now need to throw into the mix is that so many people who’ve had COVID are losing their sense of smell.
P: Hmm.
M: And that can be really devastating to people’s well-being. So, sense of smell is linked to pleasure, but also to depression. And scientists posit that it’s because of the link to the limbic system.
P: Yeah, that make sense.
M: But up to a third of people with a defective sense of smell experience symptoms of depression.
P: Mmm. I wonder if it’s because you’re downgrading one of your primary sensors.
M: Well, I take so much pleasure out of food and you know when you’re sick and you can’t taste anything and you just stop wanting to eat?
P: Yeah, awful.
M: It’s crap!
P & M: Laughter!
M: Really bad.
P: Very true.
M: And that’s just one little thing that – well little, it’s big- impact of not being able to smell. So, you know, I kind of get it. If you let that get to you.
P: I could see where that could go. I could see where it could take you down with it.
M: Yep, definitely.
P: It would be interesting to notice if people were feeling a little bit low, go and sniff something that you know you love.
M: Oh, I love that idea.
P: Go and [sniff]. For me, I’d just have to take myself to a bakery, and stand there like a dog at the front of the bakery sniffing.
M & P: Laugh.
M: Having a bad day? Go stand in front of the bakery.
P: Laugh. Hey, I think it’s a great idea, laugh.
M: Love it. So there’s also a lot of research into animals. And look, I’d be really interested to see whether there is something there. We might not overtly go and smell a dog’s butt or our friend or partners butt –
P: Laugh!
M: – the way that dogs do or the way that mice do as well. So they definitely use smell to form relationships and to create those bonds.
P: Yep.
M: But there is a whole area of research that we still need to do on all of this to see really how much smell impacts our day to day lives.
P: How much we can learn from it, yeah.
M: Yep.
P: I’ve always said life must be really tough being a beagle.
M: Laugh.
P: Can you imagine being a beagle and just wandering around the city going ‘Oh, I can smell it, it’s so good!’ Laugh.
M: Well, they do say that some dogs can smell things like cancer and other…
P: Well, they were testing this with German shepherds smelling COVID.
M: Oh wow.
P: Yeah, there are. Don’t quote me on this, and it was probably totally an article that I shouldn’t be quoting because It’s not an academic article, but yeah, I can’t remember where I saw it but it was a thing about dogs smelling COVID, and they were using that thing and saying we could use this in airports.
M: Oh, I love it.
P: Interesting idea.
M: So, on that note, we’re saying this is just the start of what could be a mind-blowing shift in how we experience the world and see the world, but also could open up a whole range of perfumes.
P & M: Laugh!
M: All your emotions on the shelf, laugh.
P: True.
M: You can pick from moving forward.
P: I’m feeling nonchalant.
M & P: Laugh!
P: I’ll have number three, laugh.
M: Exactly. But the one thing you can do is exactly what you said Pete. If you’re not feeling great, go find a smell that just makes you happy.
P: I love it.
M: Yep.
P: I’m going to be wandering around the bakery across from my work all the time, laugh.
M: For me it would be having a bath and I’ve got a lovely lemongrass oil that I would put in.
P: Nice.
M: Yep.
P: Cool. Play around with it people. Let’s see what your smells do for you.
M: What smell makes you happy? All right, Happy International day of happiness, everybody, and we’ll see you next time.
[Happy exit music – background]
M: Thanks for joining us today if you want to hear more please remember to subscribe and like this podcast and remember you can find us at www.marieskelton.com, where you can also send in questions or propose a topic.
P: And if you like our little show we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.
M: Until next time.
M & P: Choose happiness.
[Exit music fadeout]
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