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The Danish Art of Hygge (E26)

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Happiness for Cynics Podcast

Denmark is the happiest country in the world, so this week we look at the Danish practice of Hygge (pronounced hoo-geh) to see what all the fuss is about.

Transcript

M: You’re listening to the podcast happiness for cynics. I’m Marie Skelton, a writer and speaker focused on change and resilience.

P: And I’m Peter Furness, a lover, maker and happiness creator. Has a nice ring to it, Doesn’t it?

M: It does.

P: Each week we will bring to you the latest news and research in the world of positive psychology, otherwise known as happiness.

M: So, if you’re feeling low.

P: Or if you’re only satisfied with life but not truly happy with it.

M: Or maybe you just want more.

P: [Whispers] Greedy.

Then this is the place to be.

M: And today’s episode is all about Hygge.

[Happy intro music]

M: So today we are talking about Hygge. And we have listened to [the pronunciation of] it on Google multiple times.

P: And it took multiple chances to get it right.

M: And we’ve probably still got it wrong. So I apologise if you are Danish.

P: [Laugh]

M: So Hygge. How’s that spelled, Pete?

P: H Y G G E.

M: Yes. I think that’s how they teach kids to spell now. Isn’t it?

P: Phonetically?

M: Yeah

P: Oh wow.

M: Maybe, maybe I read that, I read a lot of things. I make a lot of things up to I’m sure of it.

P: Like Moses and the 15 tablets. [Laugh]

M: That was you. All you! [Laugh]

M: So Hygge, what is it?

P: Interesting.

M: Do you want to get started?

P: Oh no, this is all you.

M: Okay, so I came across this, this week, and I’m so intrigued by this on and I’m going to start by quoting a guy called Meik Wiking, we would say, taking in English. But I’m sure it’s pronounced Viking because he is a Dane, right? So that’s where the Vikings came from. Up there, right? So he’s the author of ‘The Little Book of Hygge Danish Secrets to Happy Living.’

He’s also the CEO of the Happiness Research Institute in Copenhagen. And even more impressive from a background point of view is that Denmark is the world’s happiest country, according to – [the 2016 World Happiness Report]

P: – Followed very closely by Sweden and Norway, who sometimes tip them over the balance, I was reading.

M: These guys are all happy so we’re going to actually turn and listen, so this is about saying what’s going on in the happiest country in the world, right?

P: There’s a reason why they’re so happy.

M: So he says that Hygge has been called everything from the art of creating intimacy to cosiness of the soul and even cocoa by candlelight.

P: Awe

M: And in his book, he explains that you know Hygge when you feel it, but that some of the key ingredients are:

  • Togetherness;
  • Relaxation;
  • Indulgence;
  • Presence; and
  • Comfort.

P: It just sounds like a night in front of the Telly [Television].

M: It sounds like an indulgent in front of the Telly.

P: Ooh! Tim Tams, coffee and champagne.

M: Yes a deliberate night in front of the Telly not just a.. I’m exhausted from work, and I happen to be in front of the Telly, it’s like I’m choosing it.

P: Yeah.

M: Which makes it all the more better. You’re choosing laziness and getting happiness out of it.

P: Yeah very true.

M: And what I’m so excited about this is it gives you permission to cuddle in the blanket and sweatpants all day.

P: [Laugh]

M: Bliss.

P: And if our listeners could see, Marie is still in her sweat pants and her little slippers, and it’s four o’clock in the afternoon on a Friday.

M: It pretty much excuses my entire behaviour for Covid, three months of my life was just dedicated to Hygge, not just laziness.

P: It’s just giving yourself permission.

M: I mean they don’t talk about not shaving or showering but I think you could go there if you wanted to.

P: Haha sure, ok it’s indulgent.

M: So pretty much. What we’re talking about is that actually the Danes spend a lot more time indoors over winter than we do. We are very lucky with the weather and this is a way of coming together and creating a cosy environment and blissing out.

P: Well, it’s interesting. I was reading one of the articles in The New Yorker actually about Hygge.

M: In the New Yorker?

P: The New Yorker, yes. Just to throw that out there. And what I found interesting was that they talk about it in terms of you can’t necessarily transfer the Hygge concept to Americanism because of the culture differences between Denmark and America.

M: Mmm

P: It becomes a little bit more of a[n] egalitarian concept. When you transfer it straight into American [society], they talk about the fact that-

M: What?

P: Well, they’re talking about it in terms of their culture that if you just say to people, you know you want the Danish experience, you want to have antlers on your wall and cosy fur rugs and the Scandinavian wood and all this sort of stuff.

M: And a roaring fire.

P: [Laugh]

M: I’m there, I’m there. Keep going.

P: I’m probably not explaining it very well, but they say that if you transfer that across to an American experience, it becomes different, becomes it a social. How do they talk about it, it becomes.. I’m trying to be really polite. I’m just going to come out and say it, it becomes egotistic. ‘Oh, I’m celebrating my fabulousness because I have access to all these Scandinavian design and so forth and the evolution of a roaring fire in my house.’

M: The irony is that Scandinavian design is minimalist, they’re known for their minimalism and not for their comfort and cosiness.

[Laughter]

M: But, I love this concept, which maybe layers on top of the minimalist.

P: I’m going to quote the article here.

‘When transferred to the United States. The kind of understated luxury that Danes consider a shared national trait starts to seem like little more than a symbol of economic status, the very thing that Scandinavian countries have sought to jettison.’

M: [Laugh] This is so New Yorker.

[Laughter]

M: This is more a reflection on the New Yorker than on America.

P: [Laugh] Ok, we’re not going to go there. We might delete this.

M: No, no, not at all. I think it’s a really valid perspective.

P: Well, they go on to say that there are lessons from the Hygge that Americans might heed.

M: And I think is we’re going into winter now in Australia, and because this is a new thing, it is the new Marie Kondo, you know, sparking joy; Hygge is the latest thing that everyone’s talking about right now, and in particular because of this ‘Little Book of Hygge’ that’s come out. So go look it up if you’re looking for something to read over winter, and I think it’s perfect in its timing because of what’s happened with Covid, we’ve just been given permission to spend all this time at home. Winter is coming Pete, and we need Hygge.

P: Let’s make it relative though the Australian winter is coming, which, let’s face it in Sydney means that it’s going to be 14 degrees, which is not exactly the same as a Scandinavian winter.

M: We may have listeners in the high country.

P: Ok yeah.. I’m coming down, once the borders are open. It’s interesting you talk about winter because I’ve got a great quote here that ‘The hard learned lesson of frigid Scandinavian winters, is that there’s no such thing as bad weather, only unsuitable clothing.’

M: I love it.

P: [Laughter] That all you really need to get through difficult times is shelter and sustenance, kith and kin.

M: Kin, so again doesn’t have to be family. It can be a chosen family, and I think when the weather is crap, whether it’s raining here or it’s just cold and everything’s relative if you have you grown up in Sydney, then winters are cold. If you’ve been anywhere else in the world, you’ll know that Sydney winters are nothing to complain about. But it is all relative.

P: It is all relative. Yes [Laugh]

M: And then it’s about going ‘ooh it’s cold let’s get everyone together to have some port or sherry and –

P: And snuggle up together.

M: Yeah, snuggle.

P: That’s where I actually do love our volleyball friends we’re a very affectionate bunch.

M: [Laugh]

P: Maybe it’s because we sweat together, but get us together on the couch and we will literally fall all over each other, and it’s kind of like, you know, everybody’s body is our body in a way, it’s like yeah I’m just going to nuzzle in here.

M: There’s no boundaries. It’s true. [Laugh]

P: Well, pretty much.

[Laughter]

P: It’s lovely because there is an, I will talk about the importance of touch here, a subject upon which I am very passionate. It is important for hugs and touch and affection to be expressed.

M: It is particularly important for some people if that is their love language, as we’ve discussed we need to do an episode on love languages by the way.

P: Done

M: But yeah, but some people in particular, touch is such a vital part of how they feel connected and express love and care for other people.

P: But it does things to a scientifically it sets off chemical reactions. It sets off sensor in neurons that are beneficial to us. So we can’t live without touch.

M: Hhmm

P: If you challenge me on that one, I’m going to come back at you with science.

M: You can’t live well without touch. It’s not like air.

P: Alright, I’ll give you that.

M: Food, water.

P: We’ll come back to that one.

Hygge. Actually Hyggebukser.

M: So, Hyggebukser. And okay, what is Hyggebukser?

P: Hyggebukser: Otherwise known is that slubby pair of pants you would never wear in public, but secretly treasure. We all have one.

M: I’ve got multiple. Is that bad?

P: No. I’ve got t-shirts that this really should have gone in the bin three years ago. But they’re just so comfy.

M: Yep. I’ve Yep. Is particularly like if you bought them somewhere meaningful, Yep. And then the other Danish word that goes with this Hygge movement is Hyggelig, which is Hygge – like. So Pete, tell me about your last Hyggelig moment.

P: Hyggelig moment, hhmm. It didn’t happen in winter, but it was a moment of being, we’d had a debauched evening of wonderful celebration and so forth and I was in my underwear.

M: Ha ha. That is so not unusual for you. And I think somebody who we won’t name dared me to take off my pants at one point and then I just left him off for the evening because it was just convenient and lying on the couch and –

M: – Because it was just convenient [laugh].

P: Well, it is. I’m comfortable in my undies. But we were on the couch and it was the end of the evening and we’d all imbibed and taken part of something. And it was this really quiet Segway into the quiet, quiet sort of hours of the morning. And we’re all lying on the couch together. I think we were watching or listening to some music and everyone was just kind of, it was like a twister board if we just kind of wrapped up with each other.

M: Falling asleep. [Laugh]

P: Pretty much. At one point one of my friends lifted his head up and he looked around at the various people that were all inter linked by hands and legs and arms and so forth and went, yeah this is a pretty cool collection of people.

[Laughter]

P: But it was utter contentment. And I think the reason that we were all falling asleep is also because we felt very chill and it was it was encouraged. It was like I’m so comfortable and I am so comforted in this moment.

M: I think that’s what comes from having a really good close group of friends because I haven’t done that since university days. And we would have all been blind drunk and someone would mean throwing up in the corner. Had we been back in those days.

P: True.

M: Whereas I think I know the night that you’re referring to [Laugh].

P: You were there Marie. [Laugh]

M: And everyone going I’m just going to sleep right here.

P: And it worked. [Laugh]

M: Very weird, but anyway. That is a lovely, lovely moment. Thank you for sharing, Peter.

So Hygge? How do we practise Hygge?

P: I like it. I like that you’ve got this one in there, Marie. No money.

M: Yes!

P: Hygge is not about money. It’s not about spending money on indulgences, not about buying a car.

M: Absolutely. And it’s, yeah, it’s not about buying happiness and back to your point with The New Yorker article it is not about spending money to make something happen, right?

P: No.

M: It is about putting on your daggiest sweat pants and your ugg boots that you love but don’t tell anyone your own and that favourite T-shirt of yours that is so soft you feel like it’s going to fall apart soon because you washed it that many times. So it’s not expensive or fancy, and it’s about getting together people that matter to you or, or not. You don’t actually need the people. You could just get a good book and sit outside in the sun, right? It could be the exact opposite of the, the image that we’re painting with the room with the fire and the cold outside. It is finding a cosy space.

P: Does it have to be shared?

M: No.

P: Hygge doesn’t need to [have] another person.

M: No.

P: I’m gonna challenge you on that one, Muz.

M: I don’t think it does.

P: I thought it’s sort of, it’s about connecting with your intimate crew. And the thing that I was reading was that it’s about not connecting with a large group of people, but a close knit group of one or two people. And this is something that the Danes do. They don’t necessarily have large gatherings. They have cosy gatherings of one or two, which goes towards them almost seeming … standoffish because you can’t break into their little cliques and so forth. Now it’s something that could be a cultural perspective, but it isn’t about big groups of people, but it is about people and being connected with one or two others.

M: I think you’ve gotta have those moments of one or two in order to have these deeper connection moments, because when you’re at a big table of people having dinner, or a big party, you don’t get as intimate with people just by the nature experience.

P: Yeah, no. And you’ve got background noise and so forth.

M: As far as Hygge and whether or not it requires people, my understanding is that it doesn’t that you can jump under a blanket and watch a romcom with a steaming mug of..

P: Jarrah?

M: Cider or whatever, whatever floats your boat. It’s about the comfort as well.

So, firstly, it shouldn’t cost you much or anything. Secondly, it’s all about the simple pleasures in life and stopping and being mindful of those things.

So we are in our busy, hectic, crazy lives often sit down in front of TV and chill.

This is about choosing to do it on a Friday night with a movie that you’ve been wanting to watch and your tub of Ben and Jerry’s and ordering pizza and choosing that as a way to spoil yourself and indulging yourself, but with the simple pleasures in life or having a board game night with two friends and your partner, preferably non digital options, I would say. And it can be about spending time with people you love, or it could be about reading a book.

P: OK. I’ll give you that, the concept of indulgence and so forth does come from reading a book. Yes.

M: Hhmm. It’s taking the time to.. Yeah, and this is why again, I gave three different examples of what Hygge has been called up the beginning of the episode here. There’s no riel, solid definition of it. It is a thing that the Danes all get and know. And the rest of the world is now trying to cotton on.

[Laughter]

M: So excuse us listeners, while we kind of..

P: Catch-up?

M: muddle through it and work it out, yeah.

P: It’s not only a Danish thing, though. There’s a Swedish concept as well, which is very similar. It’s called Lagom. Now literally, apparently, that refers to a kind of moderation.

M: [Derisive noise] Moderation.

[Laughter]

M: It’s not part of my language.

P: [Laugh]

M: My vocabulary.

P: It comes back to a Viking phrase, so it’s still, it’s still part of the culture reference on Lagom. I’m probably saying that very badly, interprets as around the team, meaning it’s about sharing with people and it also refers to taking mead, so it means that you should take only a sip of the mead that’s being passed around so that no one is left without and Lagom interprets also as being adequate or just right or in balance.

M: I found this really fascinating that is so part of the Scandinavian mindset. They have very community –

P: Very socialist.

M: – focus, not even socialist. Not socialist in the way that Americans bandied the term around. They see it as, when Americans say socialist they think communist very often.

P: Yep, which are two very different words.

M: Very different things. So, yes, socialist its community and family first rather than self-first, and you look at who the happiest populations are and it’s the Swedish.

P: It’s the Scandinavians.

M: And yeah, it does come at a cost. I mean, they have a higher tax bracket. They have a much more community driven expense module. It’s about investing in the town and the nation. It’s not just about investing in self.

M: But it all comes back to them, it makes them happy.

P: It does come back and they value that and it’s I think that’s a cultural influence. It’s bandied about with them when they’re children. They’re taught to understand that this is how it works.

M: And here’s the irony of that. Even though you’re paying more in taxes, they’re getting more back so they’re happier and their wage gap, the wealth gap is actually smaller. So unlike in countries like America, where they say it’s all about the dream –

P: Hhmm..

M: and right? And they’re very much based in the self and capitalism and the promise off being able to work hard and do well in life, which means succeed and money, right? For that for many, many Americans, they’re living below the poverty line, many, many more than in Scandinavian countries. So the irony is that this system that was set up to enable people to prosper is not actually enabling most, the majority to prosper, nor is it making them happy. Sorry, I’ve gotten on my soapbox here.

P: [Laugh] I’m letting you go.

M: This has gotten very political. Anyway, so.

P: We’ve gone away from the mead and the cider and the fire. [Laugh]

M: And we’re about to head over time. So let’s get back to Hygge, how do you practise it?

P: How do you practise it?

M: So,

1. One it shouldn’t be expensive or fancy. We covered that off.

2. Two it’s about the simple pleasures in life.

3. Three, you’ve got to set the scene, get your warm blankets out, light your roaring fire, get your cup of tea and get your comfy clothes on with your elastic waistband.

P: [Laugh] So this is appropriate that, you know, I could take my clothes off at this moment.

M: And Leah if you’re listening, absolutely take off your bra.

P: [Laugh] First thing that happens when she walks in the room.

M: [Laugh]

P: I just shared that with the world! She’s gonna love me for that.

M: And then lastly;

4. You’ve got to add this on. And this is where I was like, it’s not about moderation. It’s about a little bit of indulgence, but within reason, get some comfort foods in there.

P: Tim Tams, lamington’s.

M: Ben and Jerry’s ice cream, cheese. I can’t eat cheese anymore cause I’m allergic but yeah…

P: I’m loving this topic more. It kind of links back into one of our other episodes about Ikigai, the Japanese art of fruitful living.

M: Meaning, finding meaning. So Ikigai I think, is how Japanese find meaning and purpose in life. This is how the Scandinavian or Danish in particular do self-care.

P: Yeah, right.

M: I think that’s the difference between the two.

P: Yeah, very true.

M: And I think you can do both.

P: Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, but I like this, I like this example.

M: Absolutely.

P: We could all be a little bit more like the Danes.

M: Cheers to that. So we are sitting on my bed under blankets.

P: Doing Hygge with Martinis.

M: We thought we could not talk about this without doing it for you.

[Drinks click]

P: Well, that was very nice. [Laugh]

M: On that note.

P: [Sings a note] Aaaahhhh… what was that a D?

M: [Laugh] so, thank you for joining us today if you want hear more please remember to subscribe and like this podcast. And remember, you can find us at www.marieskelton.com. A site about how to find balance, happiness and resilience in your life, including some really practical tips and resources is to get you started on your happiness journey. Please do check out the site and right to ask to let us know if you would like us to cover any specific topics or if you’d like to give us feedback, would love to hear from you.

P: Definitely.

M: Until next time.

P: Choose happiness.

[Happy exit music]

Related content: Podcast: Finding Purpose with the Japanese Secret of Ikigai (E18), Podcast: Designing Happy Cities (E19)

Please note: I get a small commission on any products bought from this site through the amazon link. This is at no extra cost to you and proceeds help fund this website.

Resiliency Is About Recharging And Self-Care, But Are You Doing It Wrong?

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Are You Doing Self-Care Wrong?

Are you stressed, overwhelmed or burned out? You’re not alone.

We’re all living in a Change Storm – experiencing more change, more often than ever before. So, we feel busy, all the time. It can feel like there’s never enough time. Between all the things we must do and all the things we should do, life can just be overwhelming.

The to-do list just keeps getting longer and longer, and with it, the stress just keeps piling up. There’s work (or looking for work), commute times, laundry, cooking, cleaning, car servicing, hairdresser appointments, doctor and dentist appointments, paying the bills, keeping up with family and friends, answering emails and texts and messages and pings, and posting, and for those who have them, let’s not forget all the responsibility that comes with kids and pets.

And that’s just the basics! For many people, there are so many more pressures and ‘must-dos’ in their daily lives, from looking after sick kids or elderly parents, to being a single parent or running a small business… let’s just say that first list was a starting point only.

But we’re not done yet. Then there are the things we feel we should do, and every time we don’t do them, we add another failure to the scorecard or more guilt into our lives. From cleaning the house better or more often, calling mum more often, cooking healthier meals, doing more (or any) exercise, or finding time to do your hair or make-up better or at all…  it all adds up to a crushing weight of inadequacy, adding more and more stress to our already stressful lives.

Life is so busy and so hectic that it’s no wonder the World Health Organisation labelled burnout an official medical diagnosis last year.

So what to do about it?

The Dangers of Doing Too Little

All too often a typical response to doing too much is to try to do too little. With all this stress, it’s no wonder that we’re spending more time just vegging. Binge watching is a thing now, as is ‘mindless scrolling’ on social media. But these responses to stress are also not helpful.

Social media can have very positive effects, as we’ve seen with the social distancing that COVID-19 brought us. It can help to maintain connectedness and relationships. However, mindless scrolling has been shown to be addictive, trigger sadness, make us compare our lives to others more (which is also unhealthy), and it can lead to jealousy.

Similarly, watching TV or playing video games might seem like a great way to unwind from a stressful day. But if you do it for hours on end, for days on end, it becomes something else altogether. Repeated binge-watching has a number of negative health effects, from not getting enough sleep and not getting any exercise to things that will kill you like deep vein thrombosis.

Just like Goldilocks taught us, it’s about finding a balance that’s just right.

Related reading: Why You Need A Social Media Detox Now

The Self-Care Revolution

The science is clear that we need to do a better job of balancing looking after ourselves with all the stressors of the modern world.

Cue the self-care revolution! From mindfulness retreats to yoga and meditation classes, and CrossFit, veggie smoothies and #RandomActsOfKindness we’ve seen an explosion of new fads (mostly science backed).

There are experts from all walks of life, all around the world, telling us to make sure we:

  • Invest in family and friendships to stave off loneliness (another new 21st-century disease). Meet new people and cultivate supportive relationships to build your sense of belonging and connectedness.
  • Exercise more, but make sure it’s intense, but only sometimes, other times it needs to be gentle, but not too gentle or it’s no longer exercise
  • Sleep at least 8 hours every night, but sometimes 9 is better, but not too much sleep or you might be depressed.
  • Eat well, this means no sugar, no fat, no salt, no meat, no processed foods, no gluten, no alcohol. But make sure you get the right kind of fat, and protein is important, and some sugars are ok, and make sure your diet is balanced, and take vitamins to supplement your diet, but if you’re eating well you shouldn’t need vitamins.
  • Look after your mind because stress kills. So practice breathing and meditating, and take your vacations, and use your commute time to refocus your brain, but also to listen to podcasts because learning and having a growth mindset is just as critical. Never stop learning! And journal every night about things you’re grateful for, and practice kindness towards others.

You get my point here, right? Even self-care can feel like more things to add to that never-ending to-do list. So, this begs the question, are you doing self-care wrong?

Are You Doing Self-Care Wrong?

So, what is the goldilocks amount of self-care? And are you doing self-care wrong?

As Shawn Achor and Michelle Gielan write in the Harvard Business Review: “resilience is about how you recharge.”

It’s about giving yourself time to do nothing, or time to do something, with no pressure and a lot of self-forgiveness and kindness about what you do, or don’t end up doing. It’s about doing something that you enjoy, something fun, not something that you feel you should do because some over-hyped expert told you to do it on a podcast.

“The key to resilience is trying really hard, then stopping, recovering, and then trying again. This conclusion is based on biology.”

Shawn Achor and Michelle Gielan, Harvard Business Review.

To be resilient, we do need to have some basic body, mind and soul habits in place and that we maintain when times get particularly tough. The great news here is that there are so many options here, that we can pick what we want to do. And the minute it starts to feel like a chore, or we don’t enjoy it, we can move on to something else.

But we also have to stop overscheduling ourselves and make time to spoil and pamper ourselves.

So, for your own personal health and longevity, go ahead and book that massage, or pour that glass of wine and get in the bath, or grab that book you’ve been meaning to read for months and go lay outside in the sun and read it… whatever floats your boat. Do whatever you want to do to help you unwind, with no guilt and no pressure.

Or don’t.

It’s completely up to you.

Related content: Read Moving On article 11 Ideas For Your Next Mental Health Day, listen to our Podcast: Self-Care is Church for Non-Believers (E17)

Please note that I get a small commission if you buy something from my site. Your support helps to keep this site going, at no additional cost to you. Thanks!

Comment below! Tell us what do you think! Are you doing self-care wrong? What’s your go-to stress buster for when things get too busy or you feel yourself approaching burn-out?

Self-Care is Church for Non-Believers (E17)

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Happiness For Cynics podcast

More and more people around the world do not believe in a God, and therefore do not attend church regularly. This is such a shame, as the act of going to church has so many benefits including making your happier. In this episode, we discuss the ways in which you can replace some aspects of church, if you’re a non-believer, so you can bring more happiness into your life.

https://pod.co/happiness-for-cynics/self-care-is-church-for-non-believers

Transcript

M: Hi. I’ve forgotten our intro.

P: [Laugh] we should never have negroni’s before a podcast.

M: We should always have them.

[Laughter]

M: Welcome the happiness for cynics. That is not how this normally goes. I’m Marie Skelton a writer, podcaster supposedly and an expert in resiliency and change.

P: Hi, I’m Peter. I’m the co-host. I’m a herb harvester, a Feng Shui factualiser and I can’t remember the third thing that I am this week.

M: Maybe we shouldn’t do negroni’s before… [laughter].

This week however, we are talking about self-care and how self-care is church for non-believers.

P: I love that quote. That’s a brilliant that’s a Marie-ism, by the way, folks, that’s a complete Marie-ism.

M: I’ll have to turn that into one of those quotes.

P: Yeah do.

M: You know like the image on Facebook.

P: Think about it ‘Self-care is church for non-believers.’

[Happy intro music]

M: Okay, welcome back. That was probably the weirdest intro we’ve ever done. Alright, self-care we’re here to talk about self-care. We were talking the other day about how self-care is really important, and it’s, it’s important to do all the fabulous things that we talked about. But you’ve got to balance that with looking after yourself as well and taking time to relax and recharge and really focus on your inner self as well, so we were keen to do an episode on self-care and then we came across this idea of self-care being church for non-believers.

P: I love this, it’s brilliant. Such a good quote.

M: So reason that we say that, there’s a couple of stats here that I’ll paint the picture with. So we start in the States. There’s a recent study by the Pew Research Centre, which says that the percentage of Americans who believe in God attend religious services and pray daily has declined significantly during the last eight years. And then, if you look at the latest census results on religion from 2016 in Australia, about 30% of Australians selected no religion, and that’s more than 7% higher than the previous census, where they measured religion in 2011.

So one in three-ish Australians no longer believe in religion and ergo we will assume they don’t go to church.

P: True, I’ll give you that.

M: Making a leap there, but we’re going to make that assumption. And again, I’m not religious and you know each to their own is my philosophy on that. However, one in three Australians are losing the benefits off attending church and that’s just such a shame. So whether you believe in God or not, the benefits of going to church include learning things like kindness, gratitude, service to others, mindfulness having social interaction on a regular basis, meditation, awe and forgiveness.

And we’re going to go into a few of those right now because they all make the wonderful bucket of self-care. But they’re also critical for happiness.

P: I’m sorry. I’m just thinking of Kentucky Fried Chicken now you said, Bucket.

[Laughter]

P: It’s like a little bucket that you can choose from.

M: Exactly, there’s wings, there’s drumsticks.

[Laughter]

M: So let’s start with your, your church bucket here.

P: [Laugh] Do I have to wear my Sunday best? Do I have to dress up?

M: No, this is all about you-

P: – Oh, but I want to wear my hat with the fascinator.

M: You don’t have to but you can.

P: Well, this is the interesting thing is that I think that before we get into everything I’m going to segway here Marie. The fact of going to church, it was a huge social construct, traditionally in, especially in Australian lifestyles. But in Western lifestyles in general, actually, no, that’s not even true.

M: In the states you get dressed up there too. For those of you who think what enough does this Aussie girl know about the states? I did live there for eight years, some I’m kind of semi sort of calling myself a little bit American and I married an American.

P: You’re married by passport.

M: [Laugh] Exactly.

But oh, in the South.

P: Oh yeah, that’s the image I’ve got.

M: They get dressed up for church.

P: Definitely. It’s the social construct. So, the fact of actually going to church of actually taking the time in your weekly schedule to allocate one hour to go to a location, to go to a ceremony to get dressed up to invest in an action that is community driven. It’s something that set a precedent for interaction on people on so many different levels. And that’s what we’re going to talk about with when we talk about the sections that we’ve nominated.

M: What I love about the social interaction piece there Pete, we’re starting with that one, is the church construct encourages people to think about others and you welcome new people into the community. It’s just like, so we met through volleyball, and there is a tribe aspect to that as well. Definitely just like with church, where you look, well you should there’s always the misfits, but you should look after the new people that come into the club or the church or the environment that you’ve got there and you look out for them and you look out for each other. And for people who have never been to church or who haven’t maybe had that team aspect in their life that we have, I think it’s, it’s scary to me that they may never have experienced that community welcoming them in. I think everybody can experience this. It’s like starting in your job, the first time you walk into a new office you don’t know anyone. Everyone has their mates that they say good morning to, everyone hangs out in coffee shop. You’re the, you’re the newbie. You’re the brassy eyed, bushy tailed woman with your negligee scarf. It’s Jane Fonda in 9 to 5.

M: Here’s the thing though. The expectations on a workplace is very different from those at church or in a team sport.

P: OK, fair point. I’ll give you that.

M: You don’t have to, give two hoots about the person you work with.

P: All right, fair yes.

M: You don’t have to be nice to them if the boss isn’t looking, right?

P: Yeah

M: And so there’s a very different social element, and that’s why when we’re saying self-care is church for non-believers, finding your tribe, and there’s a lot of talk out there about finding the tribe and its people who will look out for you and go above and beyond for you. There’s a lot of lonely people out there who don’t have a tribe.

P: Exactly

M: And church would always take everyone in. Yet regardless of your personality, differences, preferences, all of that. Sports, there’s a little bit more argy bargy there, but –

P: – Especially if you play with Brazilians.

[Laughter]

M: – but you’ve got to bring everyone in to achieve a goal, right? And in theory you have to do that in workplaces. But in practise, I don’t think that drive to be accepting and welcoming to everyone is there.

P: Which I think brings up a point that’s really valid is that you’re putting yourself in the space by going to something like church. It’s, you’re expected to be friendly. You’re expected to welcome new people in. So there is that expectation of like ‘you will be nice, eh?’

M: So that social interaction. So I think, for people who are not going to church anymore they’re perhaps missing that tribe. And there’s a few definite opportunities for people to find that in other areas of their lives. But perhaps not as easy as just rocking up to church.

P: Oh, I agree. Definitely.

M: Whatcha got next?

P: Oh, kindness.

M: Yes, be kind. So the whole process of going to church, you’re putting yourself in a place where it is expected of you to contemplate kindness. Contemplate being good to your neighbour. Being nice to your fellow man. All those kind of community constructs that are really based on every society. I’m not just talking about –

M: Do unto others

P: – Western society.

M: I know that one, do unto others!

P: [Laugh] Go Muz, quoting the… what is it 15 commandments.

M: 10

P: It was 15 first, Moses threw a tablet.

M: We should not –

P: – Moses had a hissy fit and he threw a tablet [laugh].

M: Again, I apologise

P: He so did it was Charlton Heston.

M: Alright, maybe we shouldn’t use popular culture as a reference for peoples religions.

P: That’s fair, I get it.

M: Because this matters to [some] people.

P: But my point is you’re putting yourself in the kindness space and you’re expected to be [a] kinder [person] tapping into that. It’s like, OK, I’ve got to be nice to this person and it’s the fake it till you make it concept by putting yourself into a process where you’re forcing yourself to be kind. Maybe you actually might get a bit of beneficial kick-off from that being kind not only to others, but to yourself.

M: Absolutely so as we’ve mentioned in previous episodes the research on kindness is kind of one of the most selfish things you can do. I think we’ve said before another Marieism. The benefits from oxytocin I think and again we keep talking about all the fabulous chemicals in our brain, but the benefits that you get from being kind others are huge. So much so that being kind to others can be seen as a selfish act. And one of the major tenets of nearly all religions is ‘do unto others.’

P: That’s right.

M: So if that is not being reinforced through Sunday school and through your life once a week –

P: Yep, it’s a little reminder when the pastor or the person is standing up on that pulpit saying, “who have you loved of your fellow man this week?” And it’s like forcing you to go ‘right, I have to do this’ and that’s a weekly reinforcement.

M: I think it is that real weekly reinforcement. So whether you’re helping out with tea after the service.

P: Oh yeah, they always had good bickies at the Salvation Army.

M: Or whether you’re participating in a more formalised church program that helps the elderly mow their lawns, what whatever it is that your church environment does not having that in your week because you’re not religious, is a real loss.

P: Definitely, which is a nice segway into, into-  

M: – gratitude.

P: There we go.

M: [Laugh] I read your mind.

[Laughter]

M: And we’ve talked about gratitude, I think it was our third or fourth episode in season one, but again, being grateful for what you have and prayer is one of those things where you thank the Lord for the blessings that you have. And again, if you’re not going to church on a regular basis, the need for being grateful is not being reinforced in your day to day life.

P: Yes.

M: And again I would argue that in the absence of church, what are you doing in your weekly lives to remember to be grateful?

P: Yeah. If you’re not being like the self-help gurus and certain people like yogis who practice every day sitting there, looking at your mantras and looking at your chants and saying these things to yourself as a matter of wrote that’s a daily reminder as much as what church is if you’re not involved in those daily acts, even the act of saying a prayer before dinner that was a big social construct is that there was always the expected thing, and –

M: Two, Four, Six, Eight

[Laughter]

M: Dig in, don’t wait!

P: [Laugh] you could take that one. Yes, well, if we take it in the in the literal sense, you’re being thankful for the fact that you have food on your plate.

M: Which and I’m sure if any of us Journal on gratefulness. Having food is such a First World right.

P: Exactly.

M: It’s not a privilege anymore. I bet you, you pick up anyone’s gratitude journal in the First World and they’re not thanking people for the food on their table.

P: Okay. What’s next?

M: Service to others.

P: Aahh, being generous to others, it’s such a fulfilling action. There’s a lot of research out there that the supports the fact that if you are actually giving away 10% of your time 10% of your income, 10% of your energy in the service of others, you gain back tenfold what you’re giving out.

M: Absolutely.

P: It’s a no brainer, by giving out your generosity and actually offering up something that you have, it invites so much goodwill back into yourself. And again, it’s that selfish act, not a self-less act. It’s reinvigorating your own self esteem. It’s making you feel good. Who doesn’t feel nice when you give a dollar to the person who’s on the street corner begging for money? You think I’ve done my good deed for the day that reverberates through your day hugely. And if something’s – I’ve gotta stop clicking sorry – [Laughter], if when you’re having a bad afternoon, sometimes it’s enough to go you know what my karma jar is full because I gave that dollar to the homeless person this morning.

M: I think there’s also an even greater benefit. So, I’ve done a lot of coaching and a lot of the time for free.

P: Right.

M: Sadly, I’m not making money off my volleyball coaching, but there’s, there’s a sense of the inner satisfaction, and I don’t even know how to describe it. When you have those moments through a season, when a player executes a skill that you’ve been working with them on or they finally get it, and a lot of the time they’ll perform the skill and the first person they lock eyes with is you. You know?

P: Absolutely.

M: Right? Those moments where you’ve spent hours trying to help someone else to be better and they are executing what you’ve been working on together. They’re so valuable, so, so valuable, and you remember those, I remember those moments with those players years later. I don’t remember the projects I’ve worked on in corporate life or a lot of other things. But helping others to grow is such a positive thing.

P: Tim Minchin talks about it in his address to the Melbourne University [and others] a couple of years ago when he gave his ‘Nine Lessons of Life.’ If you haven’t watched it, watch it, it’s fabulous. Tim Minchin says “Be a teacher. Share your love, Share your passion. Share what you know because it will come back upon you.”

M: Yep.

P: And it’s so true.

M: Absolutely. All right, so I’m going to bucket two other benefits of church together here and they’re definitely more your areas of expertise than mine.

P: Yeah.

M: So mindfulness and meditation.

P: Oh dear meditation.

M: I’m bundling them together because we are running a little short on time now, But really, I think we should bump out to 30 minutes because every episode we say we’re running short on time don’t we.

[Laughter]

P: Maybe our listeners should vote on that on the poll.

M: We’re trying to keep it 20 [minutes] so it’s short, sharp commute time. But anyway. So there is definite research about attending spiritual retreats in particular if you’re talking about mindfulness and the greater psychological well-being that you get and feel good hormones in the brain from mindfulness in particular, and then meditation, you’re into meditation.

P: I’m a big time meditator. And I’m a big supporter of it because it is, there are so many benefits that lead to some of the other things that we’ve already talked about today. Kindness and gratitude. When you meditate, you calm your mind down. And it’s not about eliminating thoughts. It’s about recognising thoughts and giving weight to them. It’s such a brilliant way of accessing parts of our physiology and our mental capacity that has huge benefits.

M: Actually, the title of this is self-care. And if you can’t take in the negative and let it go, then you’re not looking after your mental health.

P: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, and actually, I’m gonna skip, we’ll end on your last one here. But skip to forgiveness, which is another teaching in many religions around the world forgiving others.

P: Yeah

M: And again this is, this is a way of letting go of that negativity. And there is yet again a lot of research about the positive benefits of letting this stuff go, allowing yourself to move on and not holding yourself back because of what others have done to you.

P: Being kind to yourself is part of self-care. Very, very important factor. Don’t be too hard on yourself people. Everyone is human, everyone makes mistakes, and it’s OK to make a mistake, as long as you learn from it.

M:  And it’s okay to have negative emotions too.

P: Absolutely. They serve you well. They’re a great lever.

M: And I think right now we’re all experiencing the full pendulum swing of emotions being in isolation and dealing with Covid and the increased anxiety we need to be okay with that. I think we’re learning some really good self-reflection and growth lessons from an emotional perspective because of Covid.

P: I think the awareness has brought it definitely back onto the floor where we’re now concerned with our community connections. We now are concerned with how our daily actions affect not only ourselves but others.

All right, we’re going to move onto the last one, awe. We’ve talked about this before awe inspiring stuff.

M: Awe, A W E, it’s very easy to be like or what? Or what?

P: [Laugh]. I’m going to tell a personal story here. So going through Italy with my niece a couple years ago in Europe, we went to Florence. We’ve done gone for a walk down to the Duomo the cathedral in Florence, and we stood there in the evening light and I’ve got to say it was a pretty amazing aspect. I didn’t know anything about this cathedral I didn’t know about the Medici’s at that time. But I’m standing there in front of this cathedral and it looked like something made out of cardboard, But it was so incredible and the way the light hit it, I was having a moment. Uncle Peter may have got emotional and had a tear in his eye and my niece turns around to me and says “You ‘right.” “It’s okay darling Uncle Peter’s having about a moment”, and she said “Okay, I’m going for ice cream.”  [Laugh]

M: I, especially coming from Australia, I could not agree with you more going through Europe I, I guess there’s a point where there’s only so many churches you can see but when they’re all 15th, 16th century churches and I can only think of Notre Dame and it still breaks my heart that it burnt down but thankfully we got to see it. But there is this understanding in a lot of religion that the place you go to worship should inspire awe.

P: Which brings us back to the point. Churches were built to inspire people they were a connection with the higher power. There were a connection with God. They were meant to lift you up.

M: So as far as awe goes, you don’t have to find it in buildings only as we’ve discussed in the past, we can find it in nature very often. It’s about putting yourself in those moments where you’re standing in front of the Grand Canyon or beautiful mountains, and you take the moment to be mindful and experience your place in the vastness around you. So we are needing to wrap up now Pete.

P: Oh dear. We’ve gone overtime again.

M: But I guess the last thing I just want to say to people is if you are not religious. How are you bringing these items into your life on a weekly basis? How are you replacing what church used to bring to people which was happiness. These elements that we’ve talked about kindness, gratitude, service to others, mindfulness, social interaction, meditation, awe and forgiveness, all of them were being reinforced in people’s lives, and they’ve all been scientifically proven in multiple surveys and research to bring happiness. So that’s my challenge. Find your church, find your church, find your tribe and find ways to make these habits.

P: And really invest in them. So, so make sure that you clock them, write them out and say, like, to a daily check and see if you can tick all eight of those boxes. Eight? Seven? [Laugh]

M: That many boxes, tick all of those boxes! [Laugh]

P: And that’s the benefit and whether you believe or not in religion, church served that purpose. So we need to find a way to invest in that. And it can be as simple as spending 15 minutes at home being mindful or meditating all those sorts of actions. Church doesn’t need to be a building. You’re absolutely right. It can be your backyard as long as you invest –

M: -Or your mind.

P: Exactly. You can invest in that but being mindful and being open to it is really important.

M: I think that’s a great place to end. Thanks Pete.

P: Aww, no worries.

M: See you next week.

P: Stay happy, people.

[Happy Exit Music]