Happiness for Cynics
This week, Marie and Pete discuss a recent study that looks at whether positive psychology interventions work during a global pandemic. Is it even possible to be happy during a pandemic? The answer might surprise you.
Transcript
M: You’re listening to the podcast happiness for cynics. I’m Marie Skelton, a writer and speaker focused on change and resilience.
P: And I’m Peter Furness a champagne swilling, fried chicken cooking over-indulger of gastronomy. Each week we will bring to you the latest news and research in the world of positive psychology otherwise known as happiness.
M: So if retail therapy isn’t working.
P: Or bingo day isn’t the same without a drag queen.
M: Or you might be a bit interested in all this positive psych. stuff, even though you’d never tell your friends.
P: Then this is the place to be.
M: And today we’re talking about whether you can even be happy during a global pandemic.
[Happy Intro Music]
M: Thanks for joining us today. I have moved to Tamworth, so I’m going to apologise right now if our Internet bandwidth isn’t what it used to be. And if there are some technical and or its sound issues. But I hope that you forgive us and stick with us and enjoy the show. All right, Pete. So today we’re talking about a recent study that’s come out about positive psychology interventions during Covid and during the pandemic.
P: Mmhh.
M: And before we get into what that research showed, I think maybe we need to back up a little bit, just summarise some of all of the research and stats that talk about positive psychology and what’s going on and what we’re seeing in Covid. So we know that pre-Covid things weren’t looking so great.
P: No..
M: To be quite frank. The Pew Research Centre estimated that 52% of working dads and 60% of working moms found it somewhat or very difficult to balance work and family life. So there was stress on working parents.
P: Yep.
M: The Edelman Trust barometer revealed that 83% of employees feared losing their jobs. This is a global study that actually was the 2020 study that came out just before Covid here. So 83% of employees feared losing their jobs, and the World Health Organisation noted that depression and anxiety have an estimated cost of the global economy of $1 trillion per year in lost productivity.
P: Hhmm only half what apple make.
M: Really? Trillion? two trillion really?
P: That’s their share values.
M: Yeah.
P: So if you work for apple, pat yourself on the back and have a glass of champagne.
[Laughter]
M: So that’s just three stats, there are so many more that talk about loneliness, depression, anxiety, mental health more broadly and how just as a society things are about to hit that breaking point.
P: Mmhh.
M: I think the straw that broke the camel’s back kind of moment and that was all pre Covid.
P: Yep.
M: And now since the pandemic hit, we have seen a dramatic increase in stress, anxiety and overall poor mental health across Australia.
P: Ok.
M: So in June, the Sydney Morning Herald reported on two studies, one suggested that the number of people displaying symptoms of anxiety, stress and depression in the community have risen between 13 to 21%.
P: Uh huh.
M: While the other found that roughly one in every five people is experiencing clinically relevant depression symptoms.
P: Right.
M: Now that one to me isn’t as scary because I think people have been saying for a while now in Australia at least that one in five people will experience depression in their lives, so that’s pretty much on par. But for one in five to be, currently all experiencing depression symptoms, that’s a bit of a difference as well.
P: Ok yep. The Danish study, published in April, found that 2458 people reported an increased level of stress and anxiety. This is alongside an American study that found people were eight times more likely at the moment to fit the criteria of serious mental illness.
The interesting thing about the American study is that those between the ages of 18 to 44 were more likely to be adversely affected than the older generations. And I think that’s an interesting point because that’s right in that bracket of people who are not as secure maybe and not as relaxed in their approach, they’re, you know, up and comers. They’re trying to make their way and get their careers secure or getting, launching them even if you’re 18 to 23 you know there’s a lot of pressure on that generation. You know, “Go generation.. what are we at Y or something”
M: Millenial. They’re Millenials.
P: Millenials, they’ve got a rough deal. We’ve said it before and they really have.
M: I think also, they’ve never been tested. Whereas the older generations had Vietnam, they had their recession in the eighty’s as well and their uncertainty and financial insecurity through that period, the recession that Australia had to have.
P: Yep, all that sort of stuff. Good old Paul Keating.
M: Ha ha.
P: I feel that, I feel that with what you’re saying is that it’s the snap at the co-worker, it’s the yelling at the kids when you don’t realise it. And I think they’re little things to be aware of in terms of the … experience of the Covid lock down, which we’re, we’re an international podcast. But obviously our audience I think is very Australian based.
M: Yep.
P: I think it’s really important to recognise the influences. So if you are feeling a bit crappy and you do have a little bit of a snap at someone, you take it on board and go, Yeah, the stress and anxiety that is being experienced is making an impact on our daily lives. Our interactions with our wives, spouses, children, housemates, friends all that sort of stuff is making a difference.
M: Yeah, absolutely, even in the most resilient of us.
P: Exactly. Definitely.
M: So in normal times we would not, we would say, to people who are experiencing normal, manageable levels of stress, anxiety and depression. To.. I’m sorry, I hate to use the word normal there, I’m taking that back.
P: [Laugh]
M: But manageable day to day levels of sadness, anxiety, stress, we would say institute some positive psychology interventions, and you will see results.
P: Yes, yes that.
M: Overall, there are thousands of studies that confirmed that many positive psychology interventions help people to feel happier overall, and they lower levels of depression and anxiety.
P: Yes.
M: Some interventions work better than others. You’ve also got to match the person to the intervention as well, but they do show effects. Now where I want to talk about today is whether or not positive psychology interventions work in Covid times?
P: Ok.
M: So There’s a study that just came out two weeks ago by Webster University. It’s a small study, and it was completed during the pandemic, with a small group of 45 women and men between 23 to 40 years old. And they had a control group and another group that were asked to do Positive Psychology Interventions and what they found, unlike pre Covid time studies is that not very much happened with the overall levels of happiness in the participants.
P: So there’s no increase in levels of contentment and happiness necessarily.
M: Or subjective well-being. No, this is new, this is different. But here’s the but.
P: [Laugh]
M: There’s a but, there’s always a but.
When it came to levels of depression, anxiety and stress, the participants who did the positive psychology interventions had lower levels.
P: And that’s the gold.
M: Yep. So it’s not that it made people happier, but it stopped them from being sadder.
P: Stopped them from going down that hole, yeah. And let’s face it we know that doing some things on a daily basis, which we’ve talked about a lot during this podcast that makes a big difference to your general well-being. And it’s those small things that stop you from going deeper down a hole of stress in times of great anxiety and heightened awareness that is most important.
M: Absolutely.
M: Yep, so being in a neutral mental health space is better than being in a negative mental health space.
P: And that’s what you want to hold on to in times of crisis, you want to just maintain that, that level of calm if you can. And I think, I think that’s my mother’s generation and my mom is a war baby and they were on rations in the middle of the outback in Australia and the relative experience is if you’ve got food on the table at the end of the day you’re doing well. It doesn’t have to be fillet mignon.
M: No.
P: Food on table and you’ve got a shirt on your back. It’s all good, and I think that maybe this is our defining moment when, when we look at the studies and a reference before about that American study, saying that the 18 to 44 year old’s are more likely be adversely affected. Our parents are more [mentally prepared], especially my parents who are slightly older than a lot of people. It’s a relative experience and it comes down to those basics and again, mindfulness, which we talked about a lot and appreciating the small things and the basic needs being met at a time when everything is… let’s face it, going to shit.
M: Yep. Well, it is good that you mentioned being thankful there because this study, again just a small group. But I think it makes sense to me right. It makes sense that this is something that could apply a bit more broadly but this group did gratitude exercises as part of their positive psychology interventions, and they showed a decrease in their levels of low moods, anxiety and stress. And all it took was 14 days.
P: Yeah wow.
M: So doing activities in the positive psychology sphere of things you could do like gratitude, it only takes a little is 14 days to recalibrate your, you know, we call it the Corona Coaster of emotions.
P: [Laugh] Do we?
M: It’s up and down. Well yeah. The corona coaster, we’re all on it right now. Some of us have just doing those little up, down, up, down, up, downs and a pretty like [ok] but some of us are going 90 degrees up and then 90 degrees down, right.
P: [Laugh]
M: What you want is those little fluctuations?
P: I always was a moderate rollercoaster boy. I didn’t want the big ones. [Laugh]
M: Yeah, well, you don’t in mental health terms either.
P: [Laugh]
M: It [Positive Psychology interventions] just helps to stabilise you is I guess what I’m saying. So you’re not having those lows.
P: Yes, staying on that even keel. And in times of anxiety, that’s the point. You don’t want those big moments of happiness. You don’t want to be running down the street screaming ‘my life is fabulous!’ You just want to be on that nice, ‘Yeah, I’m doing well. I’m going alright, everything is normal, I’m okay.
M: Everything’s normal. Some thing’s are bad, some things are good. I react accordingly and appropriately but in general I’m staying strong.
P: So I’m going to bring in some stuff here from BBC Future, which I was having a bit of research of.
The top things to do during the Covid crisis.
Actual tips that you can do that are actually going to make a difference today. And this goes on the back of all positive psychology work. So we know that those things of gratitude, graciousness, meditation, self-care, all that sort of stuff helps.
Distraction was the first one. Distract yourself. Go and do something that distracts your mind.
M: Mmhh, I would say this equates to having a hobby or something to do.
P: Something that takes your mind completely out of the stress of looking at the news.
For me and you Muz, it’s volleyball.
M: Yep, you’re writing Pete.
P: I will read a quote of yours Muz, ‘Volleyball is its own little bubble.’
M: Oh, it always is. That was a coach, quote, wasn’t it?
P: Yes. It was in fact and I love it, I’ve used it many times. But that’s the idea is you use something that actually takes you away and gives you complete mindfulness at that point, which is great. So from my mum, it’s orchid gardening.
M: Yep.
P: Good old Mum.
M: Gardening is something we can even do in isolation and in shut down. So as long as you’ve gotten the equipment beforehand, even people who are living in apartments can do little gardens on their balconies.
P: It can be as easy as shifting the plot plants around like I did that today. I shifted some plants in the back to the front, and it was 15 minutes in the sunshine because it was a beautiful sunny day in Sydney today and that’s enough.
M: Yep.
P: Moving on.
Meditate, ah Marie your favourite past time.
M: Sorry I missed that.
[Laughter]
P: Meditate, Marie’s favourite pastime.
M: [Noise of derision] Yeah, no I was joking. I prefer to sleep than meditate. It’s the same thing in my mind.
P: Look, meditation is hard and it’s the whole thing of… And I think what I would actually insert here as opposed to Meditate is being mindful. Today I sat on the front veranda with my cup of tea and my little lunch, and the first time in, I’d say 11 years, I’ve been in this house for 11 years, I heard the wind whistling through the Cyprus pine across the road. It’s the first time in 11 years that I’ve heard that sound.
M: Was it a windy day.
P: Yeah. Meditation. It’s Mindfulness. Spend two minutes being silent, that’s all it is. You don’t have to meditate, you don’t have to clear your mind. All that stuff, reference our previous episode on meditation.
M: Yeah, and so if meditation isn’t your thing, I would offer have a bath, have a device free, distraction free, bath.
P: Yep.
M: And as you’re sitting in the bath. Go top to bottom and get all your muscles to relax.
So I feel the stress leaving. And then this is actually meditation. I sit in the bath and actually feel the stress. Leave your, your face, your neck, your shoulders and go down your arms.
P: Yes, love it.
M: Leave your book out of the bathtub. Leave your devices, your music. Turn it all off and have a bath.
P: Yep, have quiet time. Love it.
M: Yeah.
P: Next one,
Don’t obsess over being happy or positive.
M: Oh yeah, this is so true. Yeah.
P: You’re not feeling great, don’t worry about it.
M: Yep, but also don’t chase it. This is also-
P: – I love that you said that Marie. Don’t chase it.
M: It’s the journey.
P: Yeah, definitely. And it comes right back to our original episode.
Happiness is not a destination. Happiness is the journey.
M: Mhm.
P: Don’t expect, don’t set these high expectations for yourself and maintain this plastic smile on your face, like Barbie. [Laugh] We love Barbie but you know, even her cheeks got sore in Toy Story.
M: [Laugh]
P: Watch the credits, you’ll see the reference I’m talking about. All right, moving along.
Focus on the small things.
So a small cup of tea during the day can actually be enough. If you can have a cup of tea and sit down for five minutes, that’s enough. If you can maintain that sort of level of normalcy, you’re doing well.
M: I think the other thing to add in here. A lot of what we talk about need to be done as habits. So you need to set up the routine of gratitude, journaling, exercising, practicing kindness. The second it’s not scheduled in somewhere, it gets forgotten or overlooked, or it gets bumped out of a busy day.
P: Exactly, yes.
M: So, focus on the small things. I’ve just finished reading the Atomic Habits by James Clear and something that is so valuable that he says, is when you’re starting new habits, make them small. Make them so easy that you have to trip over yourself not to do them, right?
P: Ha ha, I like that.
M: So if you want to be a runner, run for three minutes to start with and do that until it drives you crazy and you have to do four, and then push it to five. So easy, to just write once a week, something you’re grateful for and set an alarm on Sunday nights, or whatever it is that you pick. But make it small. And so when you say focus on the small things, I know that’s not exactly what you were talking about, Pete.
P: I still agree.
M: But when it comes to a lot of the positive psychology interventions we talk about make them small so that there’s really no excuse not to do them.
P: Brilliant. Love that. That’s really, really good. Well done. Ok, three more.
Clean.
Do some cleaning, go and clean out the closet.
M: Why am I being punished? What’s going on here?
P: [Laugh] No, it’s really good because it ticks so many boxes.
M: Hold on, declutter? Or clean?
P: Declutter, that’s a very [Marie] Kondo-esque way of looking at it.
M: I’m down with the declutter.
P: The cleanings, brilliant, like I actually love it like going and cleaning the bathroom. You’re in this moment. I’ve just gotta get it clean. And you can be really obsessive about cleaning. So, it ticks a lot of boxes. It takes your mind out of the situation. It gives you a task. It distracts you. It gives you a sense of achievement at the end of it. There’s a lot of positive things about doing some domestic cleaning.
M: OK, alright.
P: Getting fluff off the carpet in the hallway when you’re vacuuming. You’ll be thankful when you walk on it the next day [laugh].
M: I hear what you’re saying, actually, and I think the bit that sold it for me was that feeling of satisfaction and also the focus of doing a task and completing it. Yeah, all right.
P: If you’re feeling absolutely shit go and clean something.
M: Alright, I’ll give you that.
P: Okay, alright.
Balance your social media.
M: Mhm.
P: Beware the social demon and know that I’m aware of this, Marie, be careful of going on social media and getting caught in the scroll moment.
M: Yeah or mindlessly doing stuff. I think one of the best things that I’ve done since moving up to Tamworth is I’ve got myself a morning routine. As I said, I’ve been reading atomic habit, so making some changes and I have forbidden myself from looking at my phone until mid-morning when I have a cup of coffee.
P: Oh, brilliant. That’s awesome.
M: So I get up, I do some exercise, I write, and then I start work. And so all of those, and have some breakfast. All of those things happen without any social media or other things pulling me away.
P: Your friends, a friend of mine, started this years ago. He started charging his phone in another other room so that he didn’t wake up and reach for his phone. So important people get off the bloody devices.
[Laughter]
P: Alright, last one, last one.
Get out of town.
Now this is difficult for some people. It’s very difficult, especially if you’re in lock down, such as our lovely friends down in Melbourne, who I feel very, very painful for every time I reference them. But if you can get out if you can change your surroundings.
I’m going to quote here “[As little as] a 20 to 30% increase in blue space visibility– What’s blue space Marie?
M: The ocean or a lake or river? Any water? A large body of water.
– could shift someone from moderate distress into a lower category”.
That’s from the BBC Future’s website. So get out of town people. Go and change your perspective. Get out of the concrete jungle go and get into nature, do some forest bathing.
M: [Laugh] Nice. Alright, we might wrap it up there. So what was our conclusion Pete, can you be happy during Covid?
P: I say, yes, you’ve got to put the work in, but you could do it.
M: Look, I think that there are certain people, so they say that there’s three parts to being happy.
One is low negative affect like so if you’ve lost your job or really struggling, then bad luck, sorry. I think the most you can hope for is to be neutral and to put in the work to just grit and bear what is not a great situation for you.
And then there’s positive affect, and there’s probably not a lot of positive affect going on right now.
P: No.
M: But there’s still things that we can look forward to and see, even if you can’t be going to weddings or overseas trips, etcetera, all that stuff stopped.
So that then leaves the people who aren’t going through particularly tough times. I think those people can be relatively happy.
P: You’ve got to take control… the thing is it comes down to doing the work you have control over your reactions and your perspective and if you exert that control and take ownership of it, yes, I believe you can be happy during a global pandemic.
M: Well, on that note, I’m going to say Thank you for joining us today. If you want to hear more please remember to subscribe and like this podcast and remember can find us at www.marieskelton.com. Which is a site about how to find balance, happiness and resilience in your life. You can also send in questions or propose a topic.
P: Ooh, please propose a topic. We love this, give me something to do.
M: Or reach out if you have people you’d like us to talk to or interview.
P: Oh, yes. Definitely and if you like our little show, we would love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.
M: Yeah, that would make us happy.
P: [Laugh] until next time people, choose happiness.
[Happy Exit Music]
Related content: Read Moving On article 5 Ways to Overcome the COVID Blues, listen to our Podcast: What is Happiness? (E1)