Happiness for Cynics podcast
This week, Marie and Pete talk about the many roads to happiness and how to navigate them to bring more joy into your life.
Show Notes
Below are the three models for happiness (positive psychology) that are discussed in this podcast. The first modal is from Marie and Pete aka Happiness for Cynics. The second modal is PERMA and was devised be Martin Seligman and the SPIRE modal was created by Tal Ben-Shahar.
- Finding Meaning and Purpose
- Strong Relationships
- Healthy Mind and Body
Transcript
[Happy intro music -background]
M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.
P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.
M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.
P: Plus, sometimes I think we’re kind of funny.
[Intro music fadeout]
P: And we’re back.
M: … [whispers] Pete, you’re up.
P: I’m leading?! You’re letting me lead for once? Laugh!
M: You can lead the ‘hello’s’.
P: [small voice] Hi… Laugh!
M: Laugh.
P: Welcome back to another fabulous episode of Happiness for Cynics starring Marie Skelton [whispers] and Peter Furness.
M: Well done. Okay. Now to the serious stuff.
P: Laugh! What are we talking about this week, Muz?
M: Road maps to happiness.
P: Oh.
M: I think we should, no let’s just make that “Roads to Happiness.”
P: Different journeys, different roads.
M: Yellow brick roads.
P: Oh, follow the yellow brick road, follow the yellow brick road… I can sing the whole song if you want to.
M & P: [Singing] Follow, follow, follow, follow, follow the yellow brick road.
M: Laugh, we are on our path to happiness, obviously. We do now take illicit drugs, laugh.
P: Oh, so on the path to happiness, we are leaping across the churches of… churches? Where was I going with churches? I meant bridges.
M: Bridges?
P: The bridges to happiness! Oh, wow. We are a bridge to happiness.
M: Oh, we could be.
P: We are, we are. That could be out new book?
M: Find your road, we’re your bridge.
P: Laugh.
M: I like it, laugh.
P: There’s a troll living under mine –
M: Laugh!
P: – but that’s ok. Laugh!
M: Only because every Disney show has a troll under the bridge.
P: Yeah, and every now and then Gandalf might make an appearance, “You shall not pass! …until you answer a happiness question.”
M: Laugh. I love it! So, road maps or roads to happiness.
P: What are our roads to happiness, Marie.
M: So, we have in the past discussed the model that I use to organise the types of activities that are proven, scientifically proven.
P: Ooh!
M: Science says.
P: Laugh!
M: To lead to happiness. So, we talk about a three-foundation model that includes:
Finding meaning and purpose.
P: Yep.
M: And that is often-times through how you experience your job. But it can mean a million other things as well. You could find meaning and purpose in raising children.
P: Yep.
M: You could find meaning and purpose in volunteering and supporting others. You could find meaning and purpose in creating music. There’s a million different ways that you can find that meaning and purpose. The second foundation is:
Strong relationships.
P: Yep.
M: And this is both romantic relationships as well as family and friends.
P: Yep.
M: And really investing time in having strong relationships around you. And that doesn’t mean 500 Facebook friends.
P: No.
M: And often that takes away from the stronger relations.
P: Yeah, having the intimate relations. These are the relationships that you invest time into, and you really spend time nurturing them. They’re your garden.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: They are your herb garden on your roof that you do during covid.
M & P: Laugh.
P: Don’t let the herbs die, laugh.
M: Absolutely. And then the third foundation that we talk about is:
Healthy mind and body.
P: Mmm hmm.
M: And there is so much in there, but it is sleeping well, eating, well, getting exercise, looking after your emotional needs. So practising gratitude, mindfulness, meditation, yoga kind of bridges the mind and body.
P: Yep, emotional first day.
M: Yep.
P: All that stuff.
M: All of those fabulous things, practising kindness. There’s a lot in there, so they’re the three foundations that we talk about on this show.
P: Mmm hmm.
M: But there are other, smarter people that have come before us.
P: NO! Definitely not.
M: Laugh, yep.
P: Laugh.
M: So, we’re going to talk about the science. But more than that, what makes someone impressive in their field is when they have their first model.
P: Oh really, is that all you need?
M: That’s all you need.
P: Laugh!
M: You need a model, so we’re going to start with the forefather, the founder of Positive Psychology, Martin Seligman and his model for happiness. So, his way for you, his road or road map for people to follow in order to have better wellbeing and happiness.
P: Ok.
M: And his model is called the PERMA Model.
P: PERMA. Ooh, it sounds like something you do in the nineteen seventies with your hair.
M: Laugh.
P: And don’t get to get it wet.
M: Take a Valium and wash it down with some chardonnay. And so, Pete, I know you’re new to these, but do you want to talk through what PERMA stands for?
P: PERMA has five pillars, as opposed to our three-pillar model. We’re talking about:
Positive emotion
And that comes down to:
- Spending time with people you care about,
- Inspirational and uplifting actions,
- Reflection on gratitude, what’s going well in your life, [and]
- Experiencing positivity.
M: Yes and creating activities and events that lead to positive moments or experiences in your life.
P: Mmm.
M: Going on holidays.
P: Having friends over for dinner.
M: Yep.
P: That’s what I miss.
M: Yep, Positive emotion. P for PERMA, Positive emotion. A pretty simple one.
P: E. E is for Engagement.
M: I feel like we’re on Sesame Street.
P: Laugh, oh can I be Elmo? Laugh.
M: Laugh!
P: Laugh.
Engagement
- Living in the moment;
- Activities that you really love where you lose track of time,
- Experiencing flow,
- Spending time in nature, immersing yourself,
- Observing what happens around you,
- Identifying and learning about your character strengths, and
- Doing the things that you excel at.
M: Yeah, so this is really mindfulness, slowing down and getting deeply involved in things and being in the moment.
P: Yep. Relationships, we talk about this all the time, laugh.
M: Yep.
R for Relationships.
P: So, these are
- Our intimate and our non-intimate relationships,
- The people that we have around us that we value.
- It’s the herb garden.
M: It’s having people who get you.
P: Yeah, yeah, so when you’re stressed and having things not go right, you’ve just got to sit near that person. That’s all you need because they understand. So, creating this friendship –
M: I mean, that’s a big thing to put on someone, laugh.
P: Laugh.
M: But yes, that’s what it is.
P: I think it’s a true measure. I was reflecting on a friendship that I had once where I cut short my holiday in Bath because his boyfriend had dropped him. And I said, that’s it. I’m coming back to London now, and I drove –
M: You’ve got your priorities all wrong, he should have joined you in Bath.
P: Laugh! He was in no state to travel.
M: Aww.
P: So, I did the rescue mission and I had a friend with me and I said, “I’m sorry, we have to go back to London right now, and I need a day.” And I went and sat with my friend for two days actually.
M: “Because you’re not as important as my other friend.” Laugh.
P: Laugh! Oh, come on, no. Sandy was with me for six months, so, you know, one day out of that six is not bad.
M: Alright. But, speaking of priorities, when we talk about relationships, it is about investing in the ones that are worth keeping and pruning. You know if you’re talking about gardens and relationships being like gardens and investing and nurturing.
P: Yep.
M: You do also need to prune, and you need to take out the unhealthy relationships and the relationships that aren’t giving you what you need as well.
P: Yep and not feeling guilty about that.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: Really important point. Really important.
M: It takes time. When you’re a kid, it’s about having as many as you can. But you realise, as you grow up that it’s about quality more than quantity.
P: Yeah, definitely. Okay, M.
M is for Meaning.
We talked about this a lot, having meaning and purpose in your life.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: So that sort of correlates with our model as well.
M: Yep.
- Volunteering or
- Finding passions
Again, this is very similar, I find, and we kind of crossover in our model with Seligman’s Engagement and Meaning. The E and the M from PERMA, there’s a lot of cross-over in those two.
P: Yeah, and the last one is:
A for Accomplishments.
- Setting goals,
- Setting smart goals,
- Reflecting on past successes and
- Looking for creative ways to celebrate your achievements.
I love that one.
M: Yes. We really don’t talk much about achievement and goal setting except to enable those foundations. So, we have had quite a few episodes where we’ve talked about setting goals and also creating habits –
P: Yes.
M: Towards those goals.
P: Yep.
M: Definitely, you can’t put any of this into practise without goal setting and habit forming and understanding how to do that.
P: I actually think the habit forming is the crux of it, because when something becomes a habit, it becomes what’s the word?
M: Self-fulfilling?
P: Self-fulfilling, that’s the one yep.
M: Laugh, for those of you who can’t see Pete, which is all of you –
P: Laugh.
M: – His head is doing circles on his shoulders.
P: Laugh, I physicalise my thought process.
M: Laugh.
P: Sometimes I have to get up and do pirouettes.
M & P: Laugh.
M: So, absolutely. So, this brings in something that we talk about as underpinning our three foundations. This actually brings it into the model as something that you ought to do.
P: Hmm.
M: So, a different way of looking at things and really who are we to judge? Martin Seligman is God.
P & M: Laugh.
M: In the positive psychology world, laugh! Not that I mean to be offensive to anyone.
P: Oh, leave that to me. I’m much better at that than you.
M: Well, I apologise at least ‘cause I was potentially offensive.
P: Laugh.
M: Moving on. Moving on to Tal Ben-Shahar, who is a… He was a Harvard professor. He wrote the book ‘Happier’ and he has a model, so he’s legit.
P: Laugh.
M: And it is SPIRE model.
P: This is colourful.
M: Well, we can see something colourful.
P: We’ll put this in the show Notes for Leandra [producer].
M & P: Laugh.
P: I like this one, it’s got colours, laugh.
M: All right. So, the five elements of SPIRE are:
- Spiritual,
- Physical,
- Intellectual,
- Relational, and
- Emotional.
P: Mmm.
M: And for spiritual, Tal is clear to say that there is evidence that having faith, people with faith tend to be happier.
However that doesn’t mean that you need faith in order for this pillar to be important to you.
P: Ok.
M: And really, what this is about is having a meaningful and mindful life. So are you… Is your soul content? Is how I would put it. For those of you who are not religious, are you at peace with who you are and where you are in the world? And again, is your soul content.
P: Mmm. Okay.
M: For P, Physical. Again, caring for the body and tapping into the mind-body connection.
So, Tal talks about whole being, well-being. So, is your entire body healthy? And he’s very much influenced by early philosophical writing but also eastern philosophy and talks very much about the connection between mind and body and how you can’t be healthy physically and not mentally and have well-being.
P: Yes.
M: And vice versa.
P: Yes, definitely and that’s basically my start in my happiness journey that came for me at a very young age. It’s that is interest in eastern philosophy and that combination of healthy body, healthy mind.
M: Mmm hmm. So, he also talks about the importance of all five of these elements in the SPIRE model and how they interact with each other. And sometimes you could do one activity that satisfies two or three of these elements in the model.
P: Finding the crossover?
M: Yeah.
P: They’re good ones to get into. Laugh.
M: Yeah, definitely.
P: Do ones that tick more than one box.
M: Yeah, exactly. Life’s busy. I don’t have time to do five new things.
P: Absolutely.
M: But I could do two new things if they cover all five of these elements.
P: There we go, yeah.
M: Yeah.
I, Intellectual and I love this.
M: And this is my go to. This is where I come back to, and I over invest.
P: Laugh.
M: This is my safe and happy place.
P: Yes.
M: So, this is engaging in deep learning or opening yourself up to new experiences.
P: Mmm.
M: So, for me one of the biggest rubs in my marriage was the first holiday we went on, and all my husband wanted to do was nothing.
P: Laugh.
M: And all I wanted to do was see everything, now!
P: Laugh. I’ve been there with you on a holiday, Muz.
M: Laugh.
P: I feel Francis’s pain. Five hours in Buckingham Palace.
M: So? You enjoyed it.
P: I enjoyed it. I did enjoy it.
M & P: Laugh.
P: But I can imagine how that would be challenging for someone who is not interested in Renaissance art. Laugh.
M: You can go back to the hotel, and they have a pool with cocktails.
P: Laugh.
M: So, Intellectual and definitely Tal in his teaching says that we tend to gravitate towards some of these more than others, so Spiritual, Physical, Intellectual.
The next one is Relational, otherwise known as relationships.
P: Yep.
M: And again, as we’ve said about nurturing those relationships that bring you happiness and joy.
P: Mmm hmm.
M: And last one is Emotional. And again, this is about feeling all your emotions, so not hiding emotions. No emotions are wrong.
P: No. It is okay to be curled up heap on the floor, bawling your eyes out.
M: Absolutely.
P: Just don’t stay there.
M: Don’t stay there and understanding that all emotions are valid and important. It’s only behaviours that are right or wrong.
P: Yes. Oh, I like that Muz, well done.
M: Well, this is from Tal. I’m just repeating… Yeah, yeah. Smarter people came before us.
P & M: Laugh.
P: D’Oh!
M: Can’t claim it as my own this time, laugh. It’s not one of our pearls of wisdom.
P: Laugh.
M: And by feeling all your emotions and understanding how to manage yourself through those emotions in a constructive way, you can reach towards resilience and optimism.
P: Mmm. This comes back to a point that we made in one of our very earlier podcasts, where we talked about using precise words and using our adjectives to describe our emotions and be really specific about what it is that we’re feeling. So, are you feeling angry or are you feeling frustrated?
M: Mmm hmm.
P: So, if you’re feeling frustrated, you can by being specific with your wording, you can come at a problem or an issue from a slightly more intellectual perspective and break it down to be even more direct and go ‘Oh, I’m not angry, I’m frustrated.’ That lessens the impact a little bit, puts you a bit more in control.
M: Labelling things, gets you out of your emotional brain and into your intellectual side of the brain and then helps you to move forward and create steps needed to unpack that.
P: Doesn’t put you at the mercy of your emotions.
M: Or, you know, have a tantrum on the floor. Whatever it is that you decide you want to do next. Whatever behaviour…
P: Hey, breaking mirrors is valid.
M: Ooh.
P: It’s really good externalisation of things. Just break a mirror and then –
M: Maybe not a mirror.
P: Oh, it looks really good and it shatters! Laugh!
M: Oh, I don’t know. I’d prefer to kick something that is meant to be kicked like a punching bag.
P: Oh yeah, ok. Each to their own, laugh.
M: Laugh, true. Each to their own.
P: Laugh.
M: So, those are two models that are pretty, you know, popular models within the positive psychology realm. And really, this was just about sharing other ways to look at happiness.
P: Mmm.
M: So, ours isn’t necessarily the best, but we have a model. So, we are legit now too, laugh.
P: Laugh! Yay, us!
M: These people have PhDs, though, so I definitely recommend listening to them.
P: Sure.
M: But, there are different ways of organising what is essentially the same types of activities, and they’re all scientifically proven, you know backed with research. There’s a gazillion out now of different types of research into all the things that we talk about.
P: Mmm.
M: But what I would say is these are also really good frameworks to do a little self-assessment and check in against.
P: Mmm, yeah.
M: So, if I were coming off the back of this episode, Pete, I would pick one of these and just do a little check in. So, if you’re going to pick PERMA from Martin Seligman.
P: Yep.
M: You know, how much positive emotion have you had in the past month? And how much do you have coming up in the next month?
P: And have you made space for that?
M: Block something in or book a catch up for coffee or something, or a WebEx call if you’re in lockdown.
P: Yeah.
M: That kind of thing.
P: Yeah.
M: Engagement. Are you doing any activities you love? If not, are you trying to find activities you love? And there could be a test and learn in here as well. Or like me, I discovered writing early on and then lost it for a while. And I’ve rediscovered that recently.
P: Mmm.
M: Relationships, you know. Are you tending your garden?
P: Laugh.
M: Meaning, are you actually taking some time to give back or to work out ways to use your passions to help others or spend quality time with people you care about.
P: So important.
M: Be kind to others.
P: Mmm. Yeah, and putting time in place to be kind.
M: Yeah.
P: What’s your investment portfolio for your kindness? Ooh.
M: And that takes us to the A of PERMA. Are you spending time setting goals and looking at your accomplishments and achievements?
P: Mmm.
M: Are you putting those habits into practise?
P: Yes.
M: And again, if you’re going to use these any of the three models we’ve talked about today to do a little self-check in. Don’t go trying to climb a mountain first thing off the bat.
P: Yes, laugh.
M: Pick one small thing that you can change and then put it in your diary. So, like me, I think I mentioned last episode that I started running on the treadmill every lunchtime.
P: Mmm hmm.
M: It’s in my diary and blocked every lunchtime, Monday to Friday, I do a run.
P: You’ve got to make space for it. And if you don’t write them down often you don’t follow them through and if they’re in the back of your mind. You’ve got to bring them to the forefront of your mind. And that means putting it out there, putting it on your mirror, the makeup mirror that you look at first thing in the morning, in your phone, put a reminder in your phone, ‘Have you had 10 minutes of mindfulness today?’
M: Yes.
P: And if you haven’t made it a priority, make sure that you schedule that into your day or into your weekly routine.
M: Yep.
P: Yeah.
M: So, challenge is have a look at these three models. Find one that works for you. Do a self-check in, schedule one thing that you’re going to change for the next week and lock it in forever more into your calendar, and then put a reminder for a month from now to do the same thing with a new habit.
P: Yeah.
M: It takes about a month to build a habit. So, let your first one settle in a bit and then put a reminder in for your second (or) next one that you want to really tackle.
P: And doing this for someone else is actually a really good way to keep you accountable.
M: Mmm.
P: Like any good habit being accountable for your habits and just telling someone this is what I’m aiming to do, and having them hold you to account is a really good self-check if you like, or –
M: It’s the basis for the success of weight watchers.
P: True? Yes.
M: Mmm hmm. And on that note, we’re going to call it.
P: Laugh.
M: We’re over time again, our poor production person, every week is like ‘Ahh!’
P: Sorry, Leandra.
M & P: Laugh!
M: All right, well, wishing you a happy week and we’ll see you again next time.
P: Bye!
[Happy exit music – background]
M: Thanks for joining us today if you want to hear more, please remember to subscribe and like this podcast and remember you can find us at www.marieskelton.com, where you can also send in questions or propose a topic.
P: And if you like our little show, we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.
M: Until next time.
M & P: Choose happiness.
[Exit music fadeout]
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