Unapologetically Marie

Writer, podcaster, mental health advocate

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The Gut-Brain Connection

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Research Shows the Gut-Brain Connection is Key to Our State of Mind 

Our body, like the environment, is a diverse and complex ecosystem in which everything is inextricably connected. In the rush of our day to day lives, the truth is that that many of us take this for granted. We fail to recognise the cause and effect of our decisions and ignore the impact our actions have on our bodies and our lives. Yet increasingly, it is becoming apparent that if you want to achieve mental wellbeing or if you experience mental health issues, sticking your head in the sand is no longer an option. The latest research is showing that what we eat is tied to our mental health, impacting our behaviour, emotions and feelings.   

Some of you may have heard the stomach referred to as our “second brain.” This is backed by the latest research showing that what we eat has a direct impact on both our physiology and psychology, proving there is a direct correlation between food and our happiness. It is vital to understand that research done on this subject doesn’t mean that merely changing your diet will improve your mood. Research does suggest, however, that we need to understand the “gut-brain” connection and the misconceptions about where chemicals responsible for our mood emanate.  

Understanding our Hedonistic Tendencies 

We’ve all had bad days when all we want to do when we get home is order take-out and binge on wine, chips, ice-cream [insert your guilty pleasure here]. We all know that eating certain foods can provide instant gratification and help soothe the soul. And culturally, we are conditioned to use food as a treat for good behaviour and achievement – how often have you heard a frustrated parent say: “If you eat your dinner, you can have dessert.” Families celebrate around food, and ‘special’ food is reserved for special occasions. Yet in a world of low-priced junk-food and convenience shopping, many of us can find ourselves eating ‘special’ foods daily.  

For those who experience depression or struggle with mental wellness, eating what we want is only a temporary way to achieve satiation and create a fleeting sense of satisfaction. The fact is that the moment food is consumed and hits our body’s digestive system, a complex process begins that determines our deeper state of mind. And, when you include into the mix the proliferation of psychotropic drugs developed to treat mental illness, the result is a rise of misconceptions about how to find happiness.   

Common Misconceptions About Where Happiness Emanates 

Generally speaking, most people assume that our emotions and moods are the result of chemical reactions in the brain, which makes complete sense since psychiatrists and psychologists – and the pharmaceutical industry – have been touting this theory for centuries. Based largely on years of theoretical evidence, this is the reason why psychotropic drugs are often used to treat depression. However, a relatively new field of study is telling a completely different story about the root cause of depression, concluding that the gut is where the journey begins when it comes to our state of mind.  

One naturally occurring chemical in our body, serotonin, is primarily responsible for our emotions and happiness, among other things. It is a common misconception that this vital chemical messenger or neurotransmitter, exists in the brain. The fact is that 90 percent of the body’s serotonin is produced in the gut. In a study conducted by two University of California – Los Angeles biologists, Elaine Hsiao and Thomas Fund, it was found that specific gut bacterium detect and transport serotonin into bacterial cells, which than travel to the brain. Furthermore, Hsiao and Fund determined that when there is an imbalance in gut-bacterium, which is impacted directly by what we eat and anti-depressants, serotonin levels are significantly lowered. In layman’s terms, the study supports the premise directly connecting our diet and proper nutrition to our emotional wellbeing.  

As part of their study, when the researchers added a popular antidepressant, they found that bacterium transported significantly less serotonin. “Previous studies from our lab and others showed that specific bacteria promote serotonin levels in the gut,” said Fung. “Our new study tells us that certain gut bacteria can respond to serotonin and drugs that influence serotonin, like anti-depressants. There is a unique form of communication between bacteria and our own cells through molecules traditionally recognized as neurotransmitters.”  

When the team added a popular anti-depressant with bacterium, it resulted in lower levels of the transfer of serotonin to the brain.  The team’s research aligns with a growing number of studies reporting that antidepressants can alter gut microbiota.  

The Science Behind Food and Mood 

“We tend to separate our brain from the rest of our body, but good health means good holistic health – from head to toe,” said Dr. Gabriela Cora, a board-certified nutritional psychiatrist, recently said in a Medium article investigating the connection between diet and emotions. “Why wouldn’t we think eating well would also impact our mental health?” 

Our gastrointestinal tract is home to billions of bacteria – good and bad – that influence the production of neurotransmitters like serotonin as well as dopamine. The difference between the two is that while serotonin is generally associated with how one processes emotions, dopamine is linked more closely with pleasurable experiences and, conversely, when inhibited, results in low motivation, one of the key indicators of depression. Together, having an equilibrium in the levels of serotonin and dopamine has a direct impact on our piece of mind. Conversely, when one or both are out of sync, it can create an internal turmoil that wreaks havoc on our mental state.  

So, where and how does food come into play? Why is eating well so important? Eating healthy food (think the opposite of junk food) promotes the growth of good bacteria, which positively affects positive neurotransmitter production and sends constructive messages to the brain. According to Dr. Cora, “when you stick to a diet of healthy food, you’re setting yourself up for fewer mood fluctuations, an overall happier outlook, and an improved ability to focus.” 

There is no shortage of diets or food regimens from which to choose but few of them reference an impact on mental health. In general, most are focused on losing weight or on living a more balanced life, both of which are positive. One common denominator among a majority of these programs that does impact depression is removing the intake of excessive amounts of sugar and refined carbohydrates.  

Additionally, according to a Psychology Today article written by Dr. Mahmoud Ghannoum, Ph.D., there are numerous studies indicating that probiotics can reduce depression in a manner comparable to conventional prescription medications.  

Trust Your Gut 

It would be easy to relegate solving mental health issues solely to what you eat. Everyone is different and the degree to which one experienced depression or anxiety varies and involves numerous factors, both physiological and psychological. If you are struggling to find greater happiness, trust your gut and seek professional help if you feel it is necessary. It is equally important to take control of your own happiness. To do this, you can work to develop healthy habits and become more knowledgeable about proactive steps you can take on your own to become happier!  

Want to learn more about the science of happiness? Make sure to subscribe to my podcast Happiness for Cynics and my email newsletter for regular updates & resilience resources! 

Happiness and Health (E63)

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Happiness for Cynics Podcast

This week, Marie and Pete talk about how happiness leads to better health, but does being healthier make you happier?

Transcript

[Happy intro music -background]

M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.

P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.

M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.

P: Plus, sometimes I think we’re kind of funny.

[Intro music fadeout]

M: We’re on.

P: Hello.

M: Hello, welcome back.

…

P: Oh!

M: That’s you, you’re up, laugh!

P: I thought it was you!

M & P: Laughter!

P: Welcome back to this week’s episode of Happiness for Cynics.

M: Yes, we are talking about happiness literacy, this week.

P: Ooh, I like this word.

M: And it’s tied to other types of literacy.

P: Mmm.

M: And so we’re going to talk about other types of literacy that society today says we should have.

P: Yes, and having the understanding of how to use that literacy and how to use it for the best outcome –

M: Absolutely.

P: – later on in life and how it sets you up for later in life.

M: Absolutely. And so, we are going to focus in a little bit on health and happiness and health literacy and how that ties to happiness literacy.

P: Yep.

M: And we know we’ve discussed many, many times, all the research that shows that being healthier makes you happier.

P: Definitely.

M: But the question we’re looking to answer today is does being happier make you healthier?

P: I like the twist on this, laugh.

M: Yes, does it go the other way? And when we first, I think in episode one we talked about what makes people happy. We talked about negative affect.

P: Mmm.

M: So all the crap that goes wrong in your life. Positive affect, all the good stuff that happens and how they give you momentary bumps and troughs in your happiness level. And then there’s pretty much mindset, let’s be honest.

P: Yeah.

M: It’s what else you do that is within your control, that impacts your happiness.

P: Mmm.

M: And that’s things like practising gratitude, having good and strong social connections, having purpose and meaning in your life and having healthy mind and body habits.

P: Mmm

M: So, health is a major foundation for happiness benefits.

P: And for happiness itself, from some of the stuff that I’ve been reading. So we might mention those further down the track.

M: Yep, absolutely. So really, what we’re talking about here is how much does your health impact your happiness and your well-being, your satisfaction with life?

P: Well, hugely, I think. I think that if, because if illness and disease is around, it’s very difficult to be positive. Let’s face it, when you’re sick, you just want to crawl into bed and hug a pillow and have a warm cup of tea.

M: Yep.

P: It doesn’t allow you to be thinking proactively and to be positive in your outlook in terms of life goals and achievement. If you’re worrying, we know that if you’re worried about stress and putting food on the table, then the idea of spending two hours working on your happiness levels just doesn’t come into it.

M: I think also there’s a certain point where you go back to living a life of decreased health and you find ways to find happiness so temporary or even permanent disability.

P: Mmm.

M: You move on, you find a way and it might not be at a level that was the same as before, pre-accident or pre-illness etcetera. But we’re very resilient as far as animals go. Humans are very resilient people, and there’s almost a rebound after a major trauma or illness where you can often times end up happier than you were before.

P: So, it’s a conduit to a greater level of happiness.

M: Yes, so you might have decreased health. But you are so much more grateful for everything you do have and that translates into being happier.

P: Mmm, and possibly the lever as well, like it makes you more grateful because

M: Absolutely.

P: you’re walking the street again, in the sunshine, makes you go ‘Yeah! I couldn’t do this two years ago.’

M: Yeah, and it’s called post traumatic growth.

P: Oh.

M: So, there’s a whole field of study around this, definitely. So health and poor health can actually lead to better happiness levels but day to day, I think you’re absolutely right. And then there’s, then there’s that step further, people with chronic pain in particular.

P: Mmm, mmm.

M: It is really hard to be happy when you’re just trying day in, day out to fight, to not let the pain sink you.

P: Absolutely, that is a real negative cycle that keeps so many people in a downward spiral.

M: Yeah, and in depression.

P: Yeah, absolutely. It’s a huge issue, chronic pain and where we’re seeing more chronic pain coming through in health data at the moment, we’re getting better at diagnosing chronic pain. We’re also recognising it more a lot and bless my mum she’s like ‘We didn’t have any of this crap when I was around.’ And I’m like ‘No mum, we didn’t know what it was. We had no, no way of diagnosing it.’

M: Yep.

P: The terms weren’t there and we’re getting better at identifying issues now. That maybe aren’t, we don’t know exactly the causes, but we’re still willing to look at them. And even in the health education that is out there, people are being encouraged to look at social factors and mental factors rather than just looking at the biological model of health, which looks directly at “Are you sick?”

M: I think the other great thing that’s happened in the last 10 years or so, and a lot of people are still cynics, –

P: Laugh!

M: Gotta throw that word in.

P: Gotta put that out there, laugh.

M: Yep, it is the point of the show.

– is that we’re actually giving credibility to the Eastern way of thinking, which is tying mind and body together, it is one, it is one system.

P: Mmm.

M: You cannot separate one from the other. You can’t, we are one united system and so you have to look at mind and body together and treat mind and body together.

P: Mmm.

M: And for Western science, we’ve often separated the two.

P: Well, it’s even, it even goes further back than just Eastern philosophy. If you look at ancient cultures, so the definition of indigenous health is a connection to the land, so it even takes that one step further of it’s not about you it’s about your connection with the land and with the community. So, the ancient cultures or those older, older cultures of which the Eastern culture is part of the definitely have that relationship between mind-health, body-health and all things moving forward.

M: Yep, absolutely. So, we started this out by talking about being happy literate, but we wanted to look at health literacy.

P: Health literacy, yeah.

M: And you’ve been doing a lot of study on this recently.

P: I have! I feel like I’ve got I’ve got things behind me now!

M: Laugh.

P: I have references! I did a reference list for the first time! Laugh.

M: Laugh!

P: That was interesting.

M & P: Laughter!

P: And I do have to give a shout out to one of my lovely clients who got so excited when I said I was doing a reference list. She’s an academic and at the beginning of her apartment she went “Can I have a look.”

M: Laughter!

P: And then she spent 20 minutes fixing my references, laugh. So lovely Jill, thank you so much, you gave me a reference list education in our appointment, laugh.

But yes, health literacy really, really important. How to understand health and understanding the health system so that you can use it for your own benefit.

M: So that you can get the best health outcomes.

P: Definitely. And this all comes at the beginning stages of your life. If you can understand things when you’re 20 and be putting things in place. So, putting practises into place taking part in healthy behaviours this sets up good social conditioning which lasts you into your eighties and nineties and beyond.

M: And I think the reason why this is new and why your mom is like, ‘we didn’t have this stuff before!’

P: Laugh.

M: Because, sorry mum, people used to just die.

P: It’s true.

M: Yep.

P: Yep.

M: We didn’t treat this stuff. Cancer was a death sentence.

P: People were dying earlier, we weren’t able to treat chronic illness early.

M: Yep.

P: And it was, it had a huge effect.

M: Chronic or acute. We couldn’t [treat it] before, it was it was a death sentence. So that’s firstly and secondly, the sheer volume of data that is produced on a, I was going to say daily, but hourly basis in our world is astronomical, absolutely astronomical. There’s a great start that I love to point to. So the average person in their lifetime a hundred years ago used to read as much information as is in one issue of The New York Times.

P: Ok.

M: And if you think about it, so [just] one issue of The New York Times is what they would know over their lifetime.

P: Ok, wow.

M: We read one of those every day. Plus, we have Google and Facebook and work and so much information at our fingertips, and so we’re consuming so much more were not necessarily retaining it all, let’s be frank.

P: Laugh, no. Well, our short-term memory is editing a lot more now.

M: Well, it has to. There’s so much more, we’re being bombarded as humans with so much more information and the average doctor cannot, the average GP who’s your first line of defence against all of your medical issues, can’t be across the latest in every field.

P: No.

M: In every medical field. They can’t, they just physically can’t and this is why I’m really excited about AI doctors.

P: Laugh!

M: I think with your, with your physical person, you’re human touch Doctor, combined, they can do fabulous things. But health Literacy is a thing now because if you’re not health literate, you can have really poor health outcomes. But if you are health literate, you can survive well into your eighties, nineties, you know, up to 100, living an agile and healthy and happy life and contributing to society.

P: Mmm.

M: But if you get that wrong, you can not only die a lot earlier, but you could also just live a really poor quality of life from a health perspective which impacts your happiness for your last 20, 30 years.

P: They talk about this a lot with the disability care and the disability adjusted life years expectancy.

So you may be living until you’re 60. But 30 of those years I spent in care and in a nursing home because you haven’t got the ability to be able to look after yourself. And it’s a stat that they’re looking to change in terms of our managing of disability care and aged care as well.

M: Mmm hmm. Yeah, I couldn’t support it more and again, there are so many people who were so much worse off than I was. But after my motorbike accident, I was stuck at home in a wheelchair without a lot of the support because it was a temporary disability, not a permanent disability.

P: Mmm, yeah.

M: And I was isolated, completely isolated. My ability to participate in society was stripped from me completely.

P: Mmm.

M: And I…

P: And as you pointed out, we need that social interaction to maintain our happiness levels or to keep ourselves buoyant.

M: Absolutely. And you have a lot of elderly people who are just not stable on their feet or have health conditions that limits them to home.

P: It does.

M: It’s safe at home, right?

P: Especially if the models are that they’re going to move towards a home-based care, which has come out of the royal commission recently.

M: Yeah, absolutely. So, you can stay at home, but that’s a lot lonelier place to be.

P: It can be yeah. That has to be managed and supported through community networks and integrated health system, which they’re also talking about.

M: So, I think we’ve pretty much given the answer away we know that being happier makes you healthier, but being healthier does make you happier as well.

P: Definitely makes a difference.

M: So you have some studies.

P: I do, laugh.

M: Speaking of your reference list.

P: I do. Well it actually goes in terms of actually talking about location as well, that socioeconomic indicators, so those people who are more wealthy or less wealthy has an impact on our ability to be taking part in actions that contribute to our happiness and to our longevity.

So there’s a lot of work from Darwin and Drewnowski in New York who talk about the socioeconomic influences in regards to health education and access to the health system.

M: So, health education or access. I get access. If you’re poorer, you can’t get the greatest doctor because you might not have private health insurance.

P: Or you can get to a doctor because then they’re not in your area. You have to travel.

M: Yes, okay, so look, that’s, that’s to me, a no brainer, but coming back to literacy.

P: Mmm, hmm.

M: Why are poorer people not getting access to information, which is free a lot of the time, right?

P: It is, but one of the one of the factors that they pointed out here is that, for example if you take youth health literacy in our remote and rural communities, people aren’t getting to school in our rural and remote communities. The rates of year seven entry are low. In a study in 2009, year seven entry rates in rural and regional areas of Australia at 67%, 54% and 24% respectively.

M: Rural and regional?

P: Rural, regional and remote, [Year 7 entry rates for 2009]

  • Rural – 67%
  • Regional – 54%
  • Remote – 24%

M: Ok.

P: If we look at Indigenous populations in an urban setting. So, a disadvantaged group, but in an urban setting, [Year 7 enrolment rate is] 63.1%.

P: So the access to school is lower in those geographically challenged locations. And then if we look at some of the other people that are talking about, what that does to us in terms of access to health.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: The school acts as a link to the health system because you’re getting mentored into good behaviours. You’re getting access to information, which is coming through the school system that talks about nutrition, talks about getting enough sleep, talks about giving you the information to negotiate the health system and to understand what it means when you’re going for a Pap smear or your looking after you health into your fifties and sixties.

M: I didn’t get that. We rolled condoms on bananas.

P: Laugh! But you remember that.

M: And we were told don’t smoke and don’t do drugs.

P: Yeah, yeah.

M: But I think at that point it was so, you know, adults telling you not to do it, so everyone went out and had a smoke just to see what the fuss was about, you know.

P: True, true.

M: Yeah, look, I think maybe things have evolved a little bit. We started talking about nutrition in P.E. (Physical Education) a little bit, but I hope that things have evolved because obviously, as we’re showing here, the healthy you are, the happy you are. And if it’s going to be such a negative affect, so we go back to the negative affect on positive affect.

P: Yep.

M: These are things that a lot of the time are out of your control or you know they’re situational. If you could do anything to impact the negative affect in your life, such as knowing that you should choose a salad over a burger.

P: Mmm, yep.

M: Just knowing that, then it’s going to impact your life and you’ve only got one life.

P: There’s a study about that in Deakin University.

M: Oh, listen to you!

P: Laugh!

M: Tell me, tell me about your study Pete?

P: Felice Jacka of Deakin University in Australia did a study on the therapeutic impact of a healthy diet.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And what she found was that she took a group of people who were depressed and on psychotherapy and taking antidepressants.

Half were given nutritional counselling and then the other half were given one on one counselling. So a social connection and trying to establish which group came out better and what they found was the people who engaged in the healthy eating had a significantly happier response than the group that were having the additional companionship.

M: Mmm.

P: This comes bounding back to that social connection. We need social connections. But in this instance, what they’re saying is that the change in diet actually had a bigger impact.

M: Well, social connection with the therapist is a bit of a loose social connection.

P: Well, true…

M: I do hear what you’re saying about diet, though, and I think that’s fabulous and a great result. But if you could allow people to go socialise with their friends at the pub versus spend an hour talking about how –

P: Well, I guess we’re looking at depressed people.

M: [someone] bullied me, laugh.

P: Yeah, we’re talking about psychotherapy. We’re talking about people who are clinically depressed.

M: Yeah, a different type of social [interaction].

P: True.

M: I wouldn’t pick that one necessarily, but I think it is super interesting – don’t get me wrong – that food can have such an impact.

P: There is a second study at the University of Konstanz in Germany supports the same thing.

M: Yep.

P: It says, diet that was based on vegetables and fruit over time had a larger share of the overall happiness than the group that we’re on a high sugar diet.

M: And I think we’ve spoken out blue zones where the healthiest and longest living people live before and there’s a few things that you see across the board. So there’s Okinawa in Japan, Bar-bag…

P: Laugh.

M: Bar-bagia [Barbagia] in Sardinia, the Nicoya Peninsula in Costa Rica and Linda Loman in California. And these air all small communities where people are more likely to live to 100. So they’re small, and scientists looked at whether that meant it was just a gene thing or whether it was life choices.

P: Ok.

M: And definitely it’s come down to life choices. And there’s a few things that all these communities have in common.

They find purpose in their social connections.

So, that is definitely a strong theme through all of these small, tight knit communities.

They also live closer to nature, and they spend their time in nature.

So there’s a health benefit from surrounding themselves with nature and all the lifestyle choices that come with that.

P: Yeah.

M: So that ties closely to exercise like we’re talking about.

P: Yep.

M: Also, most people living in blue zones enjoy physical activity and incorporate that naturally into their daily lives.

P: Yes.

M: So, they do a lot more gardening and walking.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: They spend a lot more time running around after their grandchildren and volunteering.

P: Mmm.

M: They also have a slower pace of life, so a bit less stress as well, and finally back to what we’ve been talking about. Their diet is characterised by moderate caloric intake.

P: And mostly plant-based sources, I can see as well.

M: Yes. Yes so vegans rejoice.

P: Laugh!

M: So these are small communities where Maccas hasn’t moved in, right?

P: Yeah, there’s more information I’ve got on that. So, Adam Drewnowski, in a 2009 study, talks about the existence of food deserts in areas of America.

M: Yes!

P: And this is where fast food outlets actually outnumber grocery stores. And this comes back to social determinants of health and having access to that dietary area. So the location where you live, if you live in one of these food deserts, it’s much harder for you to get access to fresh fruit and veg to the point of like 200 kilometres.

M: Yep.

P: You have to travel that far to get to a grocery store.

M: Because they’ve only got a 7/11, and any time they put fresh fruit and veg in there –

P: it’s gone.

M: No, it goes off.

P: Oh!

M: They’re not selling it enough, so they don’t sell it.

P: Yep.

M: It’s a, it’s a cycle, right?

P: Mmm.

M: There’s a couple of other things that I think are fascinating when it comes to health and happiness and the other impacts. So, firstly, a lack of exercise has been shown to lead to psychological disorders as we’ve discussed, so:

  • Depression;
  • ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder);
  • ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder);

Which is interesting for a lot of kids nowadays who are developing ADHD and ADD.

P: Yes, true. Or being diagnosed with it.

M: Yeah. Also, increasing exercise reduces your chance of dementia by 50%.

P: Yeah, that’s huge.

M: Yeah, absolutely.

P: That’s a big figure.

M: And then Ronald Petersen, who is an American doctor, he said “regular physical exercise is probably the best means we have of preventing Alzheimer’s disease today, better than medications, better than intellectual activity and better than supplements and diet.”

P: Mmm, interesting.

M: Exercise.

P: Yep, so true. And if we sort of get that 15 minutes a day that is so recommended, it does, it makes such a difference to your well-being and to your perspective.

M: Yep.

P: Getting out. Out of the house, out of the room that you’re in. I rode my bike for the first time in weeks today and I was like ‘Oh, yeah, I remember why this is good for me.’ Get’s you breathing. It gets all the systems moving through. And that has huge effects on your endocrine activity and your hormonal balances that ruled your system.

M: Absolutely. All right, Well, we have definitely shown that being happier makes you healthier. And being healthier makes you happier.

P: Laugh! Flip the switch.

M: Absolutely, thanks for joining us this week and we’ll see you next time.

P: Choose happiness.

[Happy exit music – background]

M: Thanks for joining us today if you want to hear more please remember to subscribe and like this podcast and remember you can find us at www.marieskelton.com, where you can also send in questions or propose a topic.

P: And if you like our little show we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.

M: Until next time.

M & P: Choose happiness.

[Exit music fadeout]

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Balancing Work Pressures With Health and Fitness

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Dade Bailey, corporate leader and personal trainer, talks about the importance of balancing work and health

We all know we need to do exercise. There have been hundreds, probably thousands, of studies into the positive effects of regular exercise. It leads to better moods, decreased stress, more mental resilience, more confidence, more energy, and I could keep going on. So, there is no way I could have a site dedicated to happiness and mental health, and not cover exercise.

Unfortunately, when we get busy, exercise is often the first thing we drop!

That’s why this week I’m interviewing Dade Bailey, who has had a very successful career in the corporate world, but he also recently retrained as a personal trainer. I spoke to him about the importance of balancing the pressures of work with health and fitness, and how to bring a bit more balance into your life.

You’ve had a very successful career with some big Australian brands, but there’s more to you than your professional career… Let’s cut to the chase: you’re buff.

<Laughs> Nice, thanks. Yes I’m Okay. So yes, but it took a long time for me to get here.

How much time do you spend working out or doing exercise each week and what do you do?

On reflection looking back, I always wanted to get to this point of being able to look in the mirror and go, yeah, I look good. I feel great. I’ve got a healthy balance, and it took a very big mind shift to get there.

The gym I’ve been with for 14 years called Hiscoes in Surry Hills [Sydney], is such a great gym, I did a strength challenge with them that was the catalyst. They really gave me the understanding of how muscle groups work, how nutrition needs to work, how building good longevity strength really would help. And that helped me set my mindset to where I am now.

Now, I’m at the gym about four or five times a week for my own personal training. I do different things, that could be strength training, high intensity training, but also it could be just something for stress relief – like going to kick the crap out of a boxing bag, or just going to do some yoga for active recovery. I really love Pilates – Reformer Pilates – that’s really good. So, four to five times a week because rest is so important as well. You’ve got to be able to allow your body time to recover.

Is balance something that’s important to you?

I think being in the corporate world for such a long time, exercise is always my outlet and going to the gym in the morning sets me up for the day, to really start my day off well. So from a mental health point of view, it was like, I’m ready. I’m walking in the office ready to take on the day. I’m feeling good. I’ve got all these endorphins happening. It’s great. Fantastic.

However if my nutrition wasn’t balanced and I was then going to eat an egg and bacon sandwich every day, and not really balancing my food, I wasn’t really complimenting my training well. Then then looking at other parts of my life and ensuring I have a balance in those areas.

When I lead teams questions I’d ask ‘are you exercising? Are you eating right? Are you sleeping right? How’s home life?’ To see if their life is balanced, and if it wasn’t, they wouldn’t be able to bring their best selves to work. At the start of each week, I used to ask my team “How are you feeling out of 10 this week?” To gauge how balanced they are heading into the week and how I could support them better.

Additionally I included exercise at work, instead of just having a 1:1 in a room, we’d go and have a walk and talk to do some exercise at the same time. Or have team meeting, we’d get out the building, so you were getting away from your desk.

Now I’ve become a personal trainer and I know a lot more about the sciences behind it, so going back into the corporate world is really going to help me as a leader to help my team thrive, so they get the best out of their work and bringing their best selves to work.

A lot of people join gyms and go to one or two classes and never go back. How did you find that spark or that passion to begin with?

As I said before there was a challenge at the gym. It was an eight-week strength challenge and I’m like, you know what, for eight weeks, I will commit. This is a short amount of time. Really commit. And even by week four of the eight weeks, I was seeing so many different changes in my body, how I was sleeping, how I was motivating myself. I changed myself from not being a morning person to being a morning person.

That’s huge!

It’s huge. I never used to be able to get out of bed. I used to sleep in and just go to work, but now I wake up at like 5:30 in the morning, quite happily.

Okay, I need your secret. We’ll get to that in a second.

But I think for me, it was that you’ve got to be able to help yourself and that was the mindset thing. You are the only one who’s going to be accountable here. You’ve got personal trainers that will help you, use them to help build out a program but it’s also “Where’s your commitment in this?” And I had to make a commitment to myself.

The corporate world is relentless, and it’s nonstop. And you have to find those moments to find that balance.

A lot of us are spending long, long hours in corporate world, and it’s becoming harder and harder to say no. What advice would you give to people to make sure they can find the balance in their life to fit in exercise.

Just from a personal point of view, after 14 years of working in an organization of the scale and the complexity that I did, I was really burnt out. And I’ve taken the time out to do some of the things I wanted to do, like become a personal trainer, which is amazing.

The corporate world is relentless, and it’s nonstop. And you have to find those moments to find that balance. As a leader in an organization, it was making sure that people came to work and they had a balanced life outside of work was my priority, because if they were wandering in and they didn’t have that balance, they weren’t able to perform at work. So for me, them making sure that they could do work flexibly if they wanted or being able to prioritize going to the gym classes that they wanted, or “hey, there’s a yoga class at four.” Go for it. You can. I know you’ll work to make up the hours. It’s about not putting restrictions on or being stuck in the old way of working of, “I need to see you at your desk from nine to five, and you need to produce X amount of widgets.”

Instead it’s like, “Here are the outcomes that you need to achieve. I expect you’re an adult and you’re able to achieve them. I will give you accountability to do that, and you work how you want. Giving people that freedom enabled them to be able to bring more of themselves to work and they were honest with me going, “I’m going through a tough time with this happening at home.” Okay, cool, at least I’m aware. But at least that kind of relationship really helped people bring everything they can to the office, and I created teams that thrive. And that’s where I’m always very proud of those moments. Because for me, if I’m running a team and they’re not living their best life outside of work, they’re not going to enjoy coming to work every day.

Absolutely. So obviously we all wish we had a boss like you! Were there any points in your life where you had bosses that didn’t subscribe to this idea? And how did you deal with explaining that you need to take time for yourself in order to be better for the organization or for your boss?

I had a boss who was a micromanager, and he really pushed my buttons. In the end, I learned that to manage the micro manager, I had to manage back. Okay, you want to know everything I’m doing? Here is a task list. Here’s everything I’m doing. You want to see that I’ve done all these tasks? Awesome.

Instead of them controlling me, I had to take control of them. But I also gave them honest feedback. I’d ask, “Can I just ask why you need to know this level of detail?” And sometimes people are just afraid of the boss. So just ask the question, “What was this to achieve? What’s the outcome?” Because for me, that kind of open and honest communication doesn’t happen enough in the corporate world. People need to ask the question “why” a lot more.

Have there been any times since you first started including exercise in your life on a regular basis that you haven’t been able to exercise, and have you noticed any impacts on your mental health or resiliency?

Absolutely. When in high delivery times, if I don’t get sleep and I don’t get to the gym in the morning, I go straight to work, I can sense my productivity levels dropping. I’m wandering in, I don’t feel energized, it would take me about two hours to get going. And people are bombarding me with questions and I wasn’t firing on all cylinders!

So that’s why it becomes so important to make sure you find that time and make sure that it happens, saying ‘this is important to my balance and the reason for that is to avoid two hours of wasted time as I wander in.’ Make sure you have the conversation as to why it’s important with your leaders to go, ‘this is me, this is why I need to do this. This is going to be better for you.’ This could be not just exercise, it could be making sure you’re dropping the kids off or going to swim class with the kids or prioritising a doctors appointment. As long as they let me know, there were ways we could make it work.

One time I noticed it started to affect my mental health was when I was leading the one of the biggest, complex change programs to deliver IT experiences to the whole organisation. It was consuming so much of my time, I started see my drinking habits go up each day, I was working longer hours, I was getting to bed late and sleeping in and not getting to the gym.

So I actually did a checkpoint, a kind of ‘put me at the centre’ activity and what actually makes me happy overall. For me it was flexible working, meaningful work, getting to the gym, making sure I’ve got time for my nutrition and making sure I’ve got time with my friends. When I started to protect those parts of my personal life, I felt the balance returning. I ensured I could cook on a Sunday night for the food for the week, ensured I limited my drinking to weekends, had conversation with my boss to come in a bit later so I could fit in my gym in the morning.  I really had to look at and put myself under the microscope and go, what makes you happy on a day to day basis from the outside of work. And what is work affecting of those pillars? And make changes.

I think it’s such an irony that when we’re needed most at work, we let down all the other areas of our life that keep us healthy for work.

But it’s also the ability for a leader to see that in their people. And for me now coming into a personal training side, I think I’m rounding out my skills in a very different way. Because it will be a very much, “well, what makes you ‘you’ outside of work? Is it exercise? Is it nutrition? How are you balancing yourself out? And how as a leader can I help that outside work operate well? What blockers do I need to remove to help free that up so you come into this office skipping?”

Can I ask you since you have been training and doing your certifications, what are some tips for people who are just starting out on their exercise journey?

Ask questions of anyone working in that gym. I’ve had the same personal trainer since day dot (Hi Mac) and he’s just so full of knowledge, like how bodies work, how you sleep, how exercise affects your energy levels – there’s so much knowledge that they have! Learn from them and really ask questions. They want to be asked and if you have a question over motivation, programs, technique or what is best to achieve your fitness goals, ask them. And if they don’t know they’ll know someone who can [help].

A lot of people don’t do the gym because they have a fear that they may look silly, don’t know how to  use the equipment or may go “ahh no, they look really fit, I can’t join that class.” But everybody working at the gym is there to help you. And yes, there are some people in gyms that are all there posing in front of mirrors or at the other end of the spectrum where they’re like, “Oh, my God, you had an alcoholic beverage, the world is ending.” But remember most people are there to better themselves. You’re all there for the same reasons, you’re there for health or want to look better for your wedding that’s coming up, or something like that. And there are people in that gym, with so many skills to help you achieve that. Don’t be afraid.

I know I was! I think I first went to a gym when I was 13 or 14 and those machines looked so scary. I don’t know if you remember going, “Oh my gosh, how do these work?” So would you recommend maybe taking a class to get started versus going straight for the weights equipment?

A couple of things that I’d recommend: most gyms overall should have some kind of introduction assessment. They should do a fitness assessment with you as soon as you walk in. Let’s sit down and get a baseline, let’s do some measurements. Let’s make sure you can know what your goals are, what do you want to achieve. A good gym will sit down and help you design a program and not only help you design a program to help you start to achieve that, but also show you how to use that equipment.

Regarding your point on the machines looking scary, they are built to help you ensure you’re doing your form correctly. Most should have a little illustration on them as how to use it properly, if you don’t have the confidence to talk to someone at the gym to demonstrate it to you. Otherwise, ask one of the trainers because they honestly want you to use the gym, use it safely, have correct form and they want their product to be used and for you to get the best results.

Is there anything I haven’t asked you that you want to add before we go?

I think in summary it’s about finding balance overall. If you are completing exercise or want to start, then work with your gym on how to do that and remember your body needs fuel for that exercise. Complement this with great nutrition, getting the sleep you need sleep, ensure you have time for your own mental health and having time for enjoying life – you need to look at what factors of your life are really are important to you, see how you get balance across them and see how you protect them.

After all, we work to live, not live to work!

If you’re in Sydney, you can find Dade at Hiscoes gym in Surry Hills. Visit www.hiscoes.com.au.