Unapologetically Marie

Writer, podcaster, mental health advocate

Home » mindful

mindful

Self-Care, Are You Doing it Right? (E75)

by

Happiness for Cynics podcast

This week, Marie and Pete talk about how self-care has become a buzzword with bad repercussions and ask the question, are you doing it right?

Transcript

[Happy intro music -background]

M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.

P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.

M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.

P: Plus, sometimes I think we’re kind of funny.

[Intro music fadeout]

M: Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!

P: Laugh.

M: It’s round one, Pete.

P: Oh dear, I don’t look forward to these ones and where Marie’s all, you know motivated to strip me bare of any –

M: Laugh!

P: – challenges that I might have. This is going to get ugly, folks.

M: Laugh. So Pete, you have the topic for today’s show.

P: I have the floor, laugh.

M: And I am in the other corner, laugh. It’s like high school debate team. I’m just arguing for the sake of the other argument. You know, sake of the other side.

P: As we know, in terms of competitiveness. We know that I’m a competitive person, but I am nothing compared to the onslaught that is Marie Skelton when she’s motivated.

M: Laugh.

P: So, gird your loins people! Laughter!

M: Yep.

P: Today, we are talking about, are you doing self-care, right?

M: No!

P: Laugh.

M: Or am I yes? Am I the affirmative?

P: Let, me put my argument forward first, Laugh.

M: Laugh, put your argument forward.

P: Ahh, pressure.

M & P: Laugh.

P: So, I’ve been doing some research on the social media. I came across this rather wonderful article by a woman called Brianna Wiest, and she’s in Philadelphia, and she is a self-awareness and self-understanding author. She’s written several books in the early 20-tens and early 2020’s, Essays That Will Change The Way You Think (2016),  The Mountain Is You (2020) and Ceremony (2021). It’s an interesting concept because she talks about self-care is often a very un-beautiful thing.

M: Mmm.

P: So, Marie and I are both proponents of the whole hygge concept that getting yourself into pyjamas, having a nice cup of tea, watching some Disney or something indulgent is really fantastic. We both agree on that, yep?

M: We even wrote a book on self-care Pete?

P & M: Laughter.

M: Why don’t we just go back a little bit further? Laugh.

P: Ok, we agree that things that are a little bit indulgent are good for us to do because they do contribute to our happiness, and it is good to reward yourself. Remember that phrase because we’re going to come back to that. It is good to reward yourself.

M: Hmm.

P: What I like about what Brianna is talking about is that there’s a certain part of self-care that is not the sitting in the bath having a chocolate cake frenzy and eating doughnuts. That’s not necessarily what you need to do to have self-care. Neither is it going on a shopping spree and spending lots of money on your credit card or indulging in over-eating snacks.

M: You’re really going hard on the doughnuts.

P: I’m going hard on it, yeah, but we’ve got to give you some fodder here Marie.

M: Laugh. Mmm hmm. So, she’s saying it’s not any of those things and it shouldn’t be any of those things?

P: It’s not the only part of self-care, and I’ll just paraphrase here. I’ll try and read out… try and surmise the article and what she talks about.

The opening statement is that self-care is making a spreadsheet of your debt and enforcing a morning routine, cooking yourself healthy meals and no longer just running from your problems and calling the distraction a solution? So, we agree on that. We’ve talked about that before. It’s about doing the hard work, putting things in place to make sure you address the issues rather than just going, ‘I’m going to tell myself to be happy.’

M: No, disagree. [Fail noise]

P: Ok.

M: Round One has started! Laugh.

P: Laugh, unpack this. Go for it, Muz!

M: I think that self-care is about listening to your body and your mind and your emotions and giving it what it needs and what it needs doesn’t have to be boring, hard, you know it, it’s framing it differently.

So doing your finances isn’t shitty and horrible. It’s, you know, looking after yourself. So, I think it’s a framing thing for me more than is it actually… like semantics, maybe we could argue.

P: Yeah, ok I’ll give you that.

M: I think that listening to your body and your emotions and all of that and going, I need to stop my diet and have five doughnuts –

P: Yep.

M: – and feel guilty about it and next time only have three.

P: Laugh.

M: And feel guilty about it next time, maybe have two when I’m needing that outlet that sugar rush or whatever it is on knowing that those adjustments and behaviour come sans-guilt and judgement and that we’re all growing and learning.

P: Yep.

M: I think that self-care is about when you’re feeling depleted in any way, as happens so often. Being kind to yourself and listening to what your body needs.

P: I definitely agree with the being kind to yourself.

M: Sometimes… The 1% means overindulgence, right? But the things you’re talking about is not. I wouldn’t say self-care is doing your finances, eating healthy, doing your exercise. That should be a day-to-day how we prioritise living.

P: I agree.

M: Not the stuff we do on top that we need to ask special permission from our bosses to leave early to go the gym… or any of the other things we shouldn’t be excusing all of those other behaviours as secondary to work or family, or you know, whatever else, your partner, it should be up there and just as important.

P: Yeah.

M: And this is the mind shift that I’m waiting to happen at the moment that all of those activities that make life worth living and make life happy and that are critical to our mental health should not be second class citizens in our schedule.

P: Yes, one of the other things she brings up is that becoming the person you know you want to and are meant to be.

M: Yep.

P: And someone who knows that salt baths and chocolate cake are ways to enjoy life but not escape from it.

M: Yes. It’s not escaping, it’s just going ‘Oh, I’ve had a crappy day, I got fired from my job and I don’t know how I’m gonna pay next month’s rent.’

P: Yep.

M: Life’s good apart from that, but today I’m eating the cake.

P: Yep, laugh.

M: And maybe having that extra glass of wine.

P: Yeah, true.

M: Yeah.

P: And this comes back to rewarding yourself and the way that we choose to reward ourselves. There is an escapism in having the doughnut, having the bath, having the red wine. And that’s, I guess my question is, is that self-care? Or is that just a momentary reprieve?

M: Again, If your definition like mine of self-care, is that it’s listening to what your body needs.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: Then it is self-care, I think. Because for me, eating well, not drinking too much, taking care of your finances, being physically active, journaling, doing gratitude, practicing love, all of that stuff is how you should live.

P: Mmm.

M: Self-care is above that, and beyond that, and amongst all of those ways that you should live there are… We’ve talked about negative affect and positive affect, and I think it’s when those spikes hit, where your up or down, where self-care comes in.

P: Yep.

M: I’ve been working on a project that today has finished!

P: Oh, congrats!

M: And for the last month I’ve been exhausted just trying to get to this day. But I’ve booked a holiday for the end of this month and that self-care for me. I need that time at the end of this month to unwind, decompress and during that time I’m not going off to theme parks and travelling the world. Not that any of those are options for me at the moment.

P & M: Laughter.

M: I intend on going somewhere really quiet where I can write and read.

P: Yeah, right.

M: And that’s self-care. That’s special.

P: It is. You’re right, you’re absolutely right as well Marie. I don’t want, I don’t want to sound like I’m saying don’t reward yourself because we know that reward is important.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And we’ve got people like Gretchen Rubin, I think she’s one of your mates, Muz.

M & P: Laugh!

M: I wish she was one of my mates! I’ve mentioned Gretchen before, that’s probably where you got that, laugh.

P: Yeah, laugh. She talks about the importance of reward, the importance of the little treat, the receiving of the surprise gift or watching a funny video gained in self-control.

“The secret of adulthood, give more to myself so I can ask more from myself.” [Gretchen Rubin]

M: Yes.

P: I like that quite from her.

M: So, self-care is looking after yourself so that you can give more, be more, do more, etc.

P: Mmm. And you want to keep going into those periods where you are working hard because you know that there’s a little reward in the end.

M: Or a big reward?

P: Big reward, yeah.

M: There’s satisfaction in kicking these goals and getting stuff done.

P: Yeah. Susan Biali, who is also a medical doctor, also talks about reward and she talks about it in terms of the celebratory treats that will enhance us and not make us regret.

M: Mmm.

P: What Susan Biali talks about is that we need to choose our rewards carefully to make sure that they’re contributing and they’re not detracting. So, they’re not something that we’re going to regret later on and so that could be about having a reward that is proactive in terms of reinforcing what you’ve done.

M: So, there’s many models for happiness, but we’ve talked about relationships, purpose and meaning and healthy mind body. And I’ve been letting part of my healthy mind and body down recently, which is physical exercise.

P: Right.

M: I’ve been over indexing on a few other things, so now that we’re in lock down, I’ve got my treadmill and I’ve made myself a little deal.

P: Have you given your treadmill a name?

M & P: Laughter!

M: It does need a name, hey?

P: Laugh, Rupert?

M: I’m going to have to think about that, laugh. The way that I am motivating myself is that I can only watch Disney when I’m on the treadmill.

P: Laugh, [Clap].

M: So, I’m watching Raya the Dragon at the moment.

P: Oh! I really want to watch that too.

M: And if I want to get through it, I have to keep running, laugh.

P: Yep, like. There we go, that’s a great reward.

M & P: Laughter.

P: Oh, fantastic. Love it. The interesting thing about rewards as well is that, now Gretchen talks about this in her book as well, The Happiness Project, and she talks about the difficulties in setting rewards that may not be a good aspect, and one of the things she brings up is that the attainment of the goal and the reward marks a finishing line on the finishing line marks a stopping point.

So, you could have developed this wonderful habit of doing the treadmill. But then, if you reward yourself with something and you go, okay, well, that’s done never doing that again.

M: Then you break your own good habit. Oh, that’s a shame.

P: It’s a shame, but it’s something to keep in mind that you don’t want the reward to write you off because you want to keep that good habit going true?

M: Mostly depending on the habit. Yes, eventually, you’ll want to finish studying.

P: Yes, absolutely.

M: Laugh, for instance.

P: Yep, I agree.

M: I probably should not be aiming to finish running.

P: Laugh.

M: It’s a healthy habit I want to maintain.

P & M: Laugh.

M: Yep, so the other thing I’ve done for that. So, I take my lunch break and I make sure I take my lunch break and I’m not allowed to eat my lunch until I’ve done my run.

P: Oh, that’s good.

M: So, that’s the other reward.

P: Yeah.

M: And the great thing that many people before me have found, I’m not new to finding this is that the more I do it, the more I then choose healthy food options when I go to lunch, and you know –

P: Yeah, cause you’re reinforcing [healthy habits].

M: – it has flow on effect.

P: Yep definitely. There’s one other thing that Gretchen Rubin talks about in terms of rewards, and that’s the decision. So, reward requires a decision. I.e. Do I deserve this reward.

M: Mmm.

P: And every time we make that decision, there is the opportunity to make the wrong choice. There are too many loopholes to choose from. When you have that decision in place that we have an opt out if you like, it’s like, ‘well bugger it, I won’t go for a run, cause I don’t want to watch Disney anymore.’

M: Laugh.

P: You can fool yourself into making bad choices, even with a reward.

M: We are so good at fooling ourselves, aren’t we?

P: Yes, yes!

M: Damn human brains!

P: Laugh! So, when thinking about rewards and this comes back to the article by Brianna Wiest. What I like about it is, self-care is not just about giving yourself all the indulgences. There is a little bit of work in there, and there are sensible choices to make in terms of reward and pleasure and what to reinforce for good self-care.

M: Mmm.

P: And part of that as you were saying Marie, and I think we agree on this one is part of that self-care is looking after the body, looking after your relationships and having some purpose and that can be a little bit of hard work.

M: And if your day today is not balanced or you’re out of whack in some way, self-care is about understanding those things in your day to day enough.

P: Yes.

M: And listening to yourself enough to be able to identify when you need to change things. So, when you need to just go to bed earlier, that is self-care to me.

P: Yeah.

M: You know. For me it’s not the day to day, it is more the exceptions.

P: Mmm. There’s a quote here that I read from Brianna’s article,

“It is learning how to stop trying to “fix yourself” and start trying to take care of yourself.” – [Brianna Wiest]

M: Yes.

P: Now that’s diving a little bit deeper into addressing issues and so forth and trying to look at your lifestyle and go one of the bad influences. She also talks about the toxic nature – that may not be the best word to use – of this internal pressure of self-care. Like ‘Oh, I better be looking good, or I better do this, or I better do that.’

M: Everything is a to do list!

P: Yes!

M: We’ve talked about this before. All of this stuff that is meant to make us happier can just make people think, ‘holly molly how am I supposed to fit all this into my week.

P: Laugh, yeah.

M: Ahh, it can add more stress.

P: Absolutely.

M: Yeah.

P: And that’s, maybe that’s what she’s talking about in terms of the ugly side of it. There’s a little bit of stuff about being dishevelled and doing your ironing so that you can go to work the next day and look decent and presentable for a professional interaction.

M: No way! That is not self-care!

P: No?

M: Nope, round two. Here we go.

P & M: Laugh!

P: Elaborate, Marie?

M: That’s living life, doing your ironing that is life. Doing your finances –

P: Ok.

M: – doing your personal hygiene.

P: Laugh!

M: Physical exercise, eating well, sleeping well, all of that is life, I think, and it is a juggle and It’s not easy. I don’t want it to be a seen as self-care anymore. I want it to be seen as skills that we teach kids. I want them to know how to be mindful and practise meditation and calm their minds and turn off the busy noise of the 21st century.

P: Yep.

M: I want them to understand how to control their emotions and when not to control their emotions as well. I want people to understand that life is not just about working.

P: Mmm.

M: What a sad, sad thing for your life just to be about –

P: Oh, absolutely.

M: – getting a house with a picket fence and two point whatever children –

P: Two point four.

M: – and a partner and entering the rat race and staying there till you retire. And then, I don’t know, maybe while you still can you might get on a cruise once a year, right?

P: Laugh.

M: Like that’s not life. That’s not living, that’s not life. And that’s not how to have a satisfying life.

P: It’s the checklist approach, isn’t it? It’s the tick, tick.

M: It’s the capitalist approach.

P: Ahh. Ohh.

M: It’s the consumer, you know, and you want bigger and better things along the way.

P: Mmm, mmm.

M: Pretty much.

P: Yeah, consumer self-care.

M: No, that’s the consumer approach that you and I went through school learning maths and English and all of that in order to get a good job so that we could be contributing members of society. And that meant following that script.

P: Yep.

M: I think that we haven’t to date done a good enough job of also telling kids, here’s how you also get satisfaction out of your job and here’s how you get happiness out of your life along the way and those things don’t need to stop or disappear.

P: No.

M: But there’s so much more in there and they’re not add-ons. They are not the icing on the cake.

P: Mmm.

M: They’re essential pieces for our existential health.

P: Wow, wow! Laugh!

M: They’re essential pieces of life. It’s how to live life, and that’s what we haven’t taught people to date very well.

P: So, they’re part of the recipe?

M: Absolutely. We need to add them in, and we need to stop apologising for it.

P: Oooh!

M: We need to stop as I said before, feeling bad for being 10 minutes late to work because we got caught up at the gym finishing a set. And, you know, we’ve just added all this stress and we’re 10 minutes late and no one notices. Just stay 10 minutes late at the end, who cares?

P: Laugh.

M: A lot of the time, obviously there are some places where it matters. If you’re 10 minutes late.

P: Yeah.

M: But we need to stop apologising for wanting to go see a kid’s theatre production or anything, going to get a massage and taking a long lunch.

P: Mmm.

M: If you’ve got the flexibility in your work to do that.

P: Mmm.

M: That is, that is living and it is a valuable and needed part of life and it’s not an add-on it’s not tack-on and I don’t think that it should be self-care. I think self-care is when all of that is just a bit out of whack or out of balance, and you need to take extra care.

P: Right. I like that, I definitely agree with that point.

M: Hold on, we’re not meant to be agreeing. Laugh.

P: I know, but damn it, we just, we always get to this point, Laugh!

M: This is the problem when you have two besties on a podcast.

P: Laugh!

So, I was meant to be having a relatively free week this week, and next week I was supposed to be going on a holiday, my one-week holiday for my 12 months of the year, I was going to go up to Byron and have a little week off.

M: [Singsong voice] Someone sounds a little bitter, laugh.

P: Oh, I’m not bitter… much. Laugh.

M: Right? Who wouldn’t be bitter? Let’s be really clear here, this sucks.

P: Laugh.

M: You’re in lock down.

P: Yes.

M: It’s not happening.

P: I was sort of looking at my diary going well, I’m not allowed to go to Byron, I’m not allowed to leave my house. I’m not allowed to even go to the gym. Which brings me a lot of pleasure and a lot of enjoyment.

M: Oh.

P: I’m not allowed to go for a drive in my car. It was so sunny the other day and I was in my car driving to work, which I was allowed to do because apparently, I’m essential services. And I just had the top down and I had music on, and it was sunny. And I just wanted to keep going. I just wanted to drive to the mountains like I had his utter urge. And I couldn’t do it.

M: And it’s winter, so you can’t even tend your rooftop garden, laugh.

P: Laugh, true. Well, I could have on that day because it was sunny. It was a momentary burst of sunshine.

M: It is Sydney.

P: Yeah.

M: Which isn’t really winter.

P: Yeah, we get like six weeks of winter. The point was that I looked at my diary for next week and, well, I can’t do any of the lovely things that I was going to do for myself. So, I may as well just open up my diary for work because I’m allowed to work. And I thought, oh my god this is horrible.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: Like the one thing that I’m allowed to do is to actually work. So, Tuesday and Monday every week we’re really busy and I realised that I’d actually booked myself entirely out with work obligations because there was nothing left that I could do, and I thought ‘I don’t want this.’

M: You need to do nothing every now and then too.

P: Exactly, yeah. And it was a really realisation that me the free spirit is all I’m about, you know, all the buying into all this stuff on doing it naturally and I was really confronted with it with the lock down experience.

M: Lock down just makes us question everything, doesn’t it?

P: It does. It definitely does and that can be a helpful thing.

M: And healthy.

P: And questioning, re-questioning, re-prioritising, finding yourself.

M: “The unexamined life is not worth living.” – [Socrates]

P: Oh, who said that?

M: I have no idea, I can’t remember.

P: Laugh!

M: I’m so bad.

P: Laugh!

So, one thing before we wrap up here, I want to also address the idea that self-care means being the hero of your own life, not the victim.

M: Yes. No one likes a… Wait, I’m taking that back. That’s horrible.

P: Laugh! This is, again what Brianna was talking about was that it means rewiring what you have until your everyday life isn’t something you need therapy to recover from.

I think this is super important and this aligns exactly with what you’re saying Muz.

M: No.

P: Oh, oh. It doesn’t?

M: Because she’s still going with the idea that self-care is the add-on, still go on it’s a valid point.

P: Oh, no. I don’t know. I don’t think she is, because I think she’s talking about building a life, building the recipe that has parts of the self-care paradigm in its such as doing your exercises, eating well all that sort of stuff, indulging in a small reward at the end of a project. Treating yourself to a theatre experience, for example, when you’ve had six weeks of really tough work obligations.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: But it’s also about taking care of things so that you don’t need therapy from your own lifestyle. If you’re pushing hard and going for those tick list items, and it’s creating drama and creating stress, that is just so all-encompassing that you need to take a week off of the end of it because you enforced this on yourself. That’s not helpful.

M: I think it’s reality though.

P: To a certain degree.

M: To a certain degree, yes. There is a line, absolutely. If you’re a serial over-committer then assess your life and take something out.

P: Yep.

M: Look at what you can find or change or whatever. Find?

P: She actually mentioned that as well.

M: 21st century living is not smooth, it’s not linear are and it’s not predictable. And there will always be times where a well-oiled machine will break down.

P: True.

M: Just like your story for next week, right?

P: Mmm.

M: You could not have predicted a lock down.

P: Yeah, yeah absolutely.

M: You had planned for a healthy mental break from your studies. And it’s not happening. And you know, you’ve had to go through a little bit of self-exploration to work out what to do instead that is going to set you up for success next semester. Again you still need that break.

P: Yeah. So, to wrap it up, sometimes we need to be a bit more mindful of the things that were involving in our day to day life. We need to build that recipe that includes those elements of the self-care, whatever they want to be, and that in finding our ways of rewarding ourselves, we need to be mindful of the types of rewards. Make sure your rewards will invigorate rather than burn you out or be detrimental to your life.

M: Oh, I like that. We’re going to end there.

P: I got an agreement! Yes! I scored! One for Petey! Laugh!

M: On that note I’m going to wish you a happy week ahead and we’ll see you then.

P: Laugh, bye.

M: Bye.

[Happy exit music – background]

M: Thanks for joining us today if you want to hear more, please remember to subscribe and like this podcast and remember you can find us at www.marieskelton.com, where you can also send in questions or propose a topic.

P: And if you like our little show, we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.

M: Until next time.

M & P: Choose happiness.

[Exit music fadeout]

Please note that I get a small commission if you buy something from my site. Your support helps to keep this site going at no additional cost to you. Thanks!

Toxic Positivity (E56)

by

Happiness for Cynics podcast

This week Marie and Pete discuss Toxic Positivity, what the latest research shows, and how you can retrain your brain for happiness. 

Show notes

During the Podcast, Marie mentions research conducted in regard to toxic happiness expectations in the workplace: The Research We’ve Ignored About Happiness at Work by André Spicer and Carl Cederström. Published in Harvard Business Review.

Towards the end of the podcast Pete talks about two different ballet terms: Penché is a classical ballet term meaning “leaning.” Pirouette is a classical ballet term meaning “spin.”

Transcript

[Happy intro music -background]

M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.

P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.

M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.

P: Plus, sometimes we’re kind of funny.

[Intro music fadeout]

M: So today we’re talking about [sweet voice] toxic positivity.

P: Laugh. I love it that you say it that way.

M: Laugh.

P: This is actually for all of the cynics, you know, in our listeners. It’s for the people that are like ‘Oh my God, it’s so hard to be happy!’

M: Or the people who don’t love Clueless.

P: I missed that reference. It’s another movie I haven’t seen.

M: Oh my goodness!

P: I know, I know.

M: Or Legally blonde?

P: Oh, laugh. Bend and snap, hello?

M: Uh huh! Exactly.

P: Laugh!

M: I’m going to channel my inner Legally blonde and not be cynical for once I think on this one.

P: You should be on this one because this is a cynical perspective.

M: Laugh.

P: So do you feel the pressure to be positive?

M: Oh, absolutely. No one wants to hear your shit.

P: Laugh.

M: They don’t, people are so busy and dealing with so much of their own stuff that I feel that you have, If you’re lucky, one or two people that you can actually honestly really say ‘no, I’m not doing well today’ to.

P: Mmm.

M: And not feel the need to just say ‘yeah, I’m fine’ or ‘yeah, I’m good’, that kind of thing in general.

P: The other flip side of that, is that there’s a pressure on people [exuberant voice] ‘to be bouncy, and to be open, and to be fabulous!’ and that’s just really hard work. So for some people who are out there, that approach of being the positive person, doing the cue cards, doing the positive affirmations in the mirror every morning and Jigging yourself up and going ‘Yeah, bam, bam, bam, I’m ready to go.’ Some people just don’t do that and it doesn’t work.

M: Well it does. If you do it right.

P: Mmm.

M: And it is not. It is not the be all and end all.

P: No.

M: And there was so much work that goes on behind it. So, I think where a lot of people are going wrong with positive affirmations and positivity is that they think that’s all you need to do to be happy, –

P: Definitely not.

M: – and it’s definitely.

P: [Singing voice] The science says no, laugh. So if we’re going to talk science, we’re going to talk about a study done in 2010, by Senay, Albarracín & Noguchi from the University of Illinois and South Misspissisi.

M: Misspissisi? Mississippi, [spelling] Miss-iss-ipp-i.

P: Laugh, Mississippi sorry. This talks about what needs to go on behind that positive psychology.

M: Yes.

P: And the cue cards and the positive affirmations, that is what they call a blanket approach. And for some of us that works, for some of us who are in reasonably good mental health, that approach works because you’re jigging yourself up and you’re reinforcing to yourself ‘I’m a good person; I am going to be this person today; I’m going to be a good money saver today.’

But for some of us, that doesn’t work because it isn’t coming from an authentic place and if positive affirmations are just reinforced by externalisation; So cue cards, doing, chanting or doing the mirror exercise. It’s not coming from a place of dedicated and deep-seated security, and therefore that actually creates more mental health issues than it solves.

M: So, I absolutely agree, because I’m playing the positive card here.

P & M: Laugh.

M: But I do, however, think that there is a whole school of thought proven scientifically researched about scanning your environment for positive things. And while I agree that you can’t lie to yourself.

P: Mmm.

M: You can’t say I’m a supermodel, I’m a supermodel, I’m a supermodel in the mirror every morning and deep down, know that you’re not and expect for you to live in this happy rose coloured glasses world.

P: Yep, no.

M: You can’t do that. However, we are programmed to look for the negative and to make sure that we notice the lion who might eat us over the pretty rainbow.

P: Yep.

M: And so, by focusing on looking out for the good things, we can recondition our minds to notice good things more. So gratitude journals, positive affirmations, all of those other things that help you to balance out what is a negative bias in our brains anyway can make you happier because you notice what you have. You become more grateful for what you do have. But again, I 100% agree with what you and then this res[earch], these researchers are saying, you can’t lie to yourself.

P: No, and I think that’s the essential argument. I agree with you wholeheartedly about what you’re saying in terms of the use of positive psychology tools and they do work. We know that they do work. We’ve talked about that at length.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: I guess what they’re talking about here is more specifically about using the concept of toxic positivity is the positivity peer pressure.

M: Yep.

P: You need to be doing this stuff to make yourself happy. But if you’re one of those people that were those positive affirmations doesn’t come from a true place. You’re actually going to do the reverse. You’re going to send yourself into a downward spiral, and it’s not gonna work.

M: Well, we had an episode a few months back on authenticity and it’s the disconnect that causes the problem right?

P: Yeah, exactly.

M: We’re seeing a lot of people in the LGBTIQ community have that disconnect, particularly as teenagers before they’ve come out.

P: Mmm.

M: And that is what causes so much pain and heartbreak and mental health issues as well, along with it.

P: Yep.

M: So absolutely, I agree with you there. The other thing that I find to be a cause of a lot of this not working is that the positive psychology movement, it’s a movement, and over the last 30 years, people have really embraced a lot of these concepts without having done masters and PhDs and full study into it and so –

P: I’m putting my hand up.

M: Laugh!

P: I’m a total embracer, I jumped in.

M: Yeah, And so what that means is for people who haven’t looked into it deeply; It’s a slogan on a T shirt or a banner on a website or a catchphrase from a celebrity and without understanding what’s behind it, it leads to the wrong behaviours.

P: Absolutely, you have to do the work.

M: And I think that is to blame.

P: You have to do the work people, we keep saying this, laugh.

M: But you’ve got to understand what the work is behind it. And so, I think we’ve got a whole lot of people who are putting a smile on their face without understanding why and who are trying to be bubbly because they want to be happy, but without putting in all the work behind that.

P: And they’re the people that we’re speaking to here, I mean, these are people that are risk of that positive peer pressure.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: It’s like ‘I have to be happy, I have to be happy, I have to put a smile on my face and just get on with life when really inside I’m dying.’

M: Yep.

P: And for those people it needs, you need to do a little bit more work. You need to do more investigation and what these researchers have come up with is that you need to be not in an inner war with your subconscious. If you’re doing the positivity and doing the exercises without understanding the real meaning behind it, what you’re training your mind to do, which is exactly what you’ve just clocked Marie, is your searching for the examples of all the times that you haven’t been bubbly.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: You haven’t been the supermodel, you haven’t been the athletics sports star.

M: You didn’t get the promotion.

P: You start training that negativity coming in.

M: You didn’t get a seat on the bus, all that stuff.

P: So how to get past that is to acknowledge and identify which thoughts are limiting and which ones are empowering and how to actually do that work to go back and find the reasons behind what is the incongruent factor, if you’re saying ‘I want to be a good money saver’ and you just keep spending money all the time, it’s understanding the reasons behind that.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: So with that idea in mind, it’s about going back and seeing what is the reason behind [the behaviour]. And what the researchers say here is ‘ask a better question.’

M: It all comes down to self-awareness, you’ve got to do the work to begin with.

P: It does.

M: Don’t you?

P: Yeah.

M: That’s again why journaling is so powerful. Because sometimes you just haven’t thought to think about stuff.

P: Mmm. You haven’t stopped, quieted the mind. And you’re not allowing those thoughts to drop in and go ‘hang on, what are you? You little red devil on my shoulder? Where’s the little white one? I want the white one.’

M: Mmm hmm. ‘Why do I always say yes to my boss when he asks me to work late? But other people go home on time, why do I do that?’ And then why do I end up burned out? You know, there’s plenty and plenty of examples for people for behaviour that they may not have reflected on.

P: Yeah, and a lot of it comes under self-limiting beliefs.

M: Yes.

P: So that’s where you come back to doing some belief, work and journaling and coordinating. That is a really good way of doing that work that we keep talking about. For those who haven’t done that, it is about self-beliefs being true for yourself.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And finding the ability to achieve or to look at the thoughts that air perhaps blocks to you, achieving that goal or that desire, or that positive affirmation that you want to achieve.

M: Yep and I think once you’ve done the work to understand yourself …, and just because you understand something doesn’t mean it’s easy to fix.

P: Yeah.

M: Or going to, laugh.

P: Laugh.

M: But once you’ve done that, it all boils down to habits. And there’s a great book out at the moment called Atomic Habits, which really helps to break down how you can make these positive psychology interventions or happiness habits stick in your life because it is something that humans are really bad at doing.

P: Oh, interesting.

M: We’re really bad at starting exercise programs, diets, everything that you might want to do. If you don’t make it a habit and you don’t know how to make it a habit in your life, you’re likely to fail at it.

P: Absolutely, yeah. And the first, is it seven days or seven tries of it you have to get through to make it a habit?

M: A lot of the time, yes, but also just make it really easy. So you’re almost tripping yourself over it. Yeah, make it part of a routine and reward yourself at the end so you can’t have breakfast until you’ve done 10 sit ups. Super simple.

P: Yep.

M: Wake up in the morning you can’t have your coffee until you’ve done 10 sit ups. And a year later, you’re going to find that you’re doing 30 sit ups every morning and you’ve got abs, you know, like whatever it is.

P: That was my approach with yoga, actually, because I had a period where I didn’t do yoga. When I first came back to Sydney after London and I was finished dancing so I was like ‘Ha ha! I don’t need to do yoga anymore, I’m going to sleep in.

M: Laugh.

P: And then I was like I’m gonna jump back on the bandwagon and you know, this is tough, six am yoga, oof. And so I decided not to do a full practise. I was like I’ll just to 10 minutes.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And sure enough, after about two weeks of doing 10 minutes that turned into 20 which turned into 30 and then you’re back on the horse.

M: Yep. And if you can trick your mind into getting the reward of your morning coffee or your breakfast or whatever it is that you can look forward to, just going to the gym isn’t motivation enough for most of us. It’s something you know you should do for a lot of us. Actually, I’m going to say most, there’s definitely gym junkies, and there’s people who love their exercise. But there’s a large proportion of the population who do exercise because they should.

P: Yeah true.

M: Or who just don’t exercise.

P: Yeah, I’ll give you that.

M: Right? And so finding ways to integrate it into your life in ways that aren’t going to scare you off.

P: Mmm.

M: That a quick and easy and that you get something at the end, which you enjoy. For instance, walking on the treadmill for 20 minutes and listen to your favourite podcast.

P & M: Laughter!

P: I’ve got this image of all these people on treadmills listening to the Happiness for Cynics podcast all laughing at precisely the same time.

M: Laugh.

P: That would be fun.

M: I love it. You know reward yourself with a TV show after you’ve done whatever it is you’re trying to do.

P: Oh yeah, I agree. One thing I do want to clock, or circle back to is that ability of the question asking. So, when we have these thoughts that pop into our heads of like ‘Oh, am I eating the cookie, don’t eat the cookie!’ That’s not the best way to approach. So, if you’re trying to not eat the cookie, it’s not the statement of the self-limiting belief of ‘don’t eat the cookie. Do not, do not, do not!’ Ask the question better. Why do you want the cookie?

M: Just eat the cookie!

P: Laugh!

M: And wash it down with a martini.

P: Laugh, yeah, yeah.

M: Laugh.

P: I’m bringing it back, laugh.

M: Darn it, we’re meant to be encouraging self-control aren’t we?

P: So going back to the question, why are we eating the cookie?

M: Because it tastes so good.

P: Yeah, well that’s part of it but why does it taste so good?

M: Sugar!

P: And why do you want sugar?

M: Because sugar tastes so good.

P: Aahh.

M: This is a very circular argument.

P: But there’s a better answer there. This is the exercise. Keep asking the question until you come up with the right answer.

M: Why, why, why?

P: That’s a path to actually doing the work that we keep talking about, which can highlight some of those self-limiting beliefs and then expose you to being able to look in the mirror and go, ‘today, I’m not going to eat the cookie’, and you believe it because you know what’s behind the… You know what the reasoning behind it is.

M: Okay…

P: Laugh.

M: I like cookies though.

P: Well, you’re allowed to have cookies, it’s okay. Laugh.

M: So, toxic positivity. I think the other part of this that we touched on briefly at the beginning is our fear that others just don’t want to hear about our problems.

P: Mmm.

M: And so we have to be positive, and I think that’s a real shame. And it’s something that society is slowly opening up to and changing. So, Brené Brown does a lot of talking about vulnerability and the power of vulnerability. And there’s been a big, shift in corporate leadership communications about being honest and authentic and being a bit vulnerable, and how that bonds people and the value of that, because we all see through corporate BS.

P: Yep.

M: Right, we know when the leader hasn’t written their email, the coms team wrote it for them.

P: He he.

M: We know when the speech writer wrote this speech for the prime minister or president or whoever, and they haven’t even looked at the notes, they’re just reading it off [the screen]. We know when it’s not them right, and so that creates a barrier between people, when there is that in-authenticity.

P: Definitely.

M: And by not ever sharing that we’re feeling down or low or just not great today, that’s creating that distance between people. By never being vulnerable with your co-workers and just saying ‘I had a shit night, like I didn’t sleep well, the kids were up all night.’

P: Yep.

M: Or, you know, ‘I get migraines and I had a migraine yesterday, and I just feel like crap today.’

P: Yep.

M: Without sharing those things or you know, bigger things that can be really hard without sharing those things, we’re creating weak teams at work and loose bonds with the people that we see day in, day out, and that’s a real shame.

P: It’s that ability to not feel the pressure to be 100% happy 100% of the time.

M: Absolutely.

P: And that isn’t sustainable. As much as being 100% negative all the time is not sustainable. Neither is being 100% happy. You’ve gotta have those ebbs and flows. You’ve gotta have those ups and downs. Some of us express those a little bit more emotionally than others.

M: Laugh. A little bit more openly than others.

P: Laugh. But that’s okay. And as you said, you can choose your people. You can choose you one or two people to go, ‘you know what? The cat died last night and I’m feeling crap.’

M: Yep.

P: So just leave me in my corner for today, I’ll bounce back tomorrow.

M: Or ‘I need a day.’

P: Yep.

M: ‘I need to cancel my meetings – or my clients or whatever it is – I just can’t cope with today.’

P: Yep.

M: And I think we need to be able to say that openly and have trust that we’ll get support if we say that to our colleagues and bosses.

P: That’s very true, yeah. And that comes from the leadership as well.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And having permission.

M: And it comes from leaders who say to their teams ‘I’m taking the day and role modelling that as well.

P: Yeah. So the other thing that I think we need to talk about is the inner saboteur.

M: Ooh.

P: Your inner voice, laugh.

M: Oh, I hate my inner saboteur!

P: Laugh!

M: Fred.

P: Fred? You have a name? Ooh I like it.

M: Did you ever watch Drop Dead Fred.

P: No.

M: Oh…

P: Laugh.

M: You should.

P: Ok, laugh. Am I going to understand you better?

M: Fred was the invisible friend, laugh.

P: Oh, righto. So you’re “Fred” can be your worst enemy in terms of that toxic positivity, because he could be the one that’s actually pressuring you, to be happy all the time.

M: Mmm.

P: Put it out there, just take it off and come out and be Taylor Swift, laugh.

M: And I think there is always pressure to move on, to get through it, to suck it up.

P: Yep.

M: You know. Put your big girl panties on as well.

P: And that’s the inner voice coming out as well. That’s our self-judgement coming out and sometimes we need to let go of that and recognise when it’s… when we’re creating our own drama, when we’re creating, if you’re that creative mind or that imaginative state that could be a really negative space because you create issues and you create scenarios that have never occurred, and you start believing them. Your body starts registering them and your brain, starts making cases for them, and that could be really dangerous space to be.

So if you find yourself getting a little bit too self-judgmental, you need to shake yourself out of that habit on often that come down to physicality or going and just being distracted. We’ve talked about awe before, going for a bush walk and things like that or being in front the ocean. Take yourself out of the space where that inner saboteur has the power and try to enjoy the moment as it were, or enjoy a moment.

M: We also talked about being kind to others, but I don’t think we talk enough in our society without being kind to yourself. And compassionate with yourself.

P: And that is what the positive psychology movement is all about, isn’t it?

M: Yep.

P: There’s a lot of that research out there that says that that’s a good and beneficial thing to do.

M: And if you need to cry or you need to be in a shitty mood for an hour, a day, or a week or a year, because something that bad has happened, then you need to take the time and forgive yourself for needing the time.

P: Yep.

M: You don’t actually even need to forgive yourself. You just need to know that it’s okay to take however much time you need to move through the stages of grief or sadness or anger, or whatever it is that you need to do.

P: Definitely.

M: There’s one last study that I did want to mention, and it’s only just popped into my mind, so I’ll have to dig it out and pop it in the show notes later.

P & M: Laugh.

M: But there’s been some research done recently and, particularly in America, the push for service people to always provide service with a smile and the impact that that has on their lives outside of work.

P: Oh, yes! Oh, I like this one.

M: And pretty much if you expect your employees, for the eight hours a day that they come in and work at Walmart or Kmart or Target or wherever it is, to put a smile on their face for every single customer that work walks in the door and when they’re interacting with other workers in the store, then you are draining their emotional capital.

P: Absolutely.

M: Draining it.

P: Oh yeah.

M: And those people struggle to enjoy their lives outside of work. It actually makes them sadder.

P: Yep.

M: It impacts their mental health.

P: Oh I so believe in that that.

M: Yep.

P: And it comes out across as fake. I mean, you just come out of that experience going, ‘What was that? That was weird.’

M: Mmm hmm.

P: This poor person is probably having a terrible day. And yet they’ve got to go ‘thanks for shopping at Wal Mart’. I think that’s where it might be a little bit different culturally, Marie. You might have a better perspective on this Marie of Australia versus America. Do we have more permission to be less cheerful in Australia?

M: I think we have permission to be a bit more authentic. So we open with a smile. But it’s not over the top happy.

P: Yeah, right.

M: Yeah, either way, forcing employees for eight hours a day to be happy rather than neutral, in some instances, which is what most people tend to be. A lot of the time has negative impacts, so there’s definitely, I’m absolutely sure that there will be more research into that and looking at whether or not it’s even cruel and unusual punishment to expect people to do it, you know.

P: Definitely, oh gosh yeah. But there are ways around that. There are creative ways around that. It’s up to, again, team leaders and people in those responsible positions to shake it up and make the workplace little bit fun. I mean, one of my, one of my things I love to do at my workplace is I like pulling out a pirouette of a penché as you walk past someone in the corridor and Elisa, if you’re listening, we’ve done it before. We’ll be walking past each other in the clinic, and I’ll just grab her and twirl her and it just adds that little buoyancy hit for the day, and she’s probably going in and working with someone who’s really going through an emotional thing.

M: Mmm.

P: There’s a lot of stuff going on, every now and then everybody needs a lift.

M: Yep.

P: And if you can be that person, I encourage you. Do something crazy. Do something unexpected. Make everybody smile.

M: Have a little bit of fun or playfulness.

P: Oh, it’s so important. And if that makes you feel stupid in front of someone else, I say do it!

M: All right. On that note, we’ll wrap it up.

P: Do your penché’s people.

M & P: Laugh.

P: If you don’t know what that is, I’ll put it in the show notes. Laugh.

[Happy exit music – background]

M: Thanks for joining us today if you want to hear more please remember to subscribe and like this podcast and remember you can find us at www.marieskelton.com, where you can also send in questions or propose a topic.

P: And if you like our little show we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.

M: Until next time.

M & P: Choose happiness.

[Exit music fadeout]

Please note that I get a small commission if you buy something from my site. Your support helps to keep this site going at no additional cost to you. Thanks!

The Power of Meditation (E9)

by

Happiness for Cynics podcast

This week, we look at the ancient practice of meditation and its ties to happiness. Pete shares his knowledge and some research, while Marie cracks jokes and pretty much contributes nothing to the conversation.

Transcription

M: You’re listening to the podcast happiness for cynics. I’m Marie Skelton. I’m a writer and speaker focused on change and resilience. My co-host is Peter.

P: Hey there, I’m Peter Furness. I’m a believer in crystals, purveyor of energetic connections and saviour of chubby unicorns.

M: Nice [laugh]

P: Each week we bring you the latest news and research in the world of positive psychology otherwise known as happiness. Marie has a blog.

M: I do, you can find me at marieskelton.com and there’s a whole lot of resources there for you on how to be happy.

P: Awe… Such a nice concept.

M: Yeah, [laugh] it is. It is, anyway. So today, today’s all about you, Peter, because today’s episode is about meditation.

P: Where’s my gong and my singing bowl?

M: So this –

P: – I really should have brought my gong and my singing bowl.

M: [Laugh]

P: That would have been a great intro!

M: I’m sure we can work that out, you know post production.

[Laughter]

P: Can we add that in later that would be so cool. I have three.

M: Done

[Gong – singing bowl – happy music]

M: Okay. And we’re back. And they were talking about meditation, so we’re going to have a little bit of a different format today. Meditation is so far out of my comfort zone.

P: [Laugh]

M: My understanding on meditation is that it’s on a spectrum. On one end, you’ve got mindfulness, which is putting your phone down at the dinner table, and then you move in to beginners learning how to sit on the cold, hard floor with their legs crossed. To, what normal people can do when they practise after years and years of meditating? And then you’ve got that weird, shave my head and take a vow of silence and sit on a mountaintop and meditate for days and days on end. That’s the other end of the spectrum.

P: It’s like the elite sports level of meditation.

M: Yeah. So that’s my very naive understanding off the mindfulness to meditation spectrum.

P: Right.

[Laughter]

M: Which is why today and in today’s episode we’re going to do more of a Q and A with Pete, because this is definitely more your domain of expertise.

P: Have you ever meditated Marie? Have you ever sat down and actually consciously meditated?

M: No one would want to sit quietly with my mind Peter.

P: [Laugh]

M: The answer is no.

P: So this is the interesting thing about people’s perceptions of meditation on what it is versus actually what it can be. I find quite interesting, it is a bit of a Pandora’s Box once you open up the concept of meditation you go ‘Oh my god! I’m going [through] the looking glass.’ It’s a really broad subject, everybody has their own interpretation of it and even the scholars all differ on their interpretations and understanding and meanings of meditation.

M: So we’ll park. As I said, I’ve got a very broad and basic understanding. We’re going to park mindfulness for another episode and focus purely on meditation today.

P: That’s good because the two are not necessarily the same.

M: Again for another time, I’m keen to just start us off so that we’re all on the same page on your understanding, your definition for meditation.

P: Right, so there are a couple of definitions that I do like. The most simplistic one that I like is meditation is a method for acquainting our mind with virtue.

M: That’s why it’s not for me… virtue?

P: [Laugh] So again virtue has many different connotations in and of itself, but when we talk about virtue in the context, we’re talking about that moral compass. We’re talking about the good things, the responsible things, the acolytes that we aim to aspire to. So we’re trying to get in touch with that in terms of where acquainting our minds with when we try to meditate. That’s the end goal I guess in a way, it’s the reason behind it.

There are other people that talk about different kinds of meditation and what it is. It’s a tool for happiness. Now, we, the concept of meditation, making you happy. Yes, it does. There is a little bit of science around this. Happiness is hard wired. It’s genetic in our brains, people who are happy have more frontal lobe activity. So meditation is a way of quieting the mind so that you can actually access some more of that frontal lobe activity. Because meditation stimulates the same cortex’s in the brain. And scientists have talked about this briefly.

Psychology today actually talks about it as a stronger mental practise that has the power to reset your happiness set point. And that happiness set point is that frontal lobe activity of the brain so meditation can access that it can start to train your brain to access that area a little bit more, thus leading to more happiness or the ability to experience more happiness.

M: OK fine…

P: [Laugh] Did I just get you with a scientific quote there?

M: Yes, yes!

P: Ha ha! See it’s not all gong’s and whistles. [Laugh]

M: Maybe, maybe. We’ll see. Anyway, let’s, let’s, let’s maybe start with how you got into this. So how did you begin practising meditation and why did you get into it?

P: I guess I got involved with Eastern Philosophy when I started University. I was very dissatisfied with the Christian experience and so I was still understanding of the need for some spiritually exploration for myself and managed to access a little bit of Tao-ism and a little bit of Buddhism through some very basic books that I found when I was in that second year at university. It’s also the time when I started spending some time alone, which we talked about in another episode and having quiet time at the end of the day and for me it came about from my practise of needing to be a little bit more… actually it came through yoga in a way. I was discovering the need for stretching and downtime and the physicality of yoga but then through that I also got access to the philosophy of yoga which is Indian, a classic Indian … principal. So those practises of being still with the mind and quieting became part of my daily routine. So I go home at the end of the day, I put a little candle in the window in my … flat and watch the sunset and do an hour of yoga.

M: I was in the pubs.

P: [Laugh]

M: My University days were very different from yours.

P: [Still laughing]

M: There was beer o’clock on Wednesdays and then Thursday night was Uni night and then there’s the usual Friday, Saturday, so very different.

P: I was ohm-ing and chanting and playing meditative gong music… [Laugh]

M: Whatever works for you.

P: [Laugh]

M: So you came from a country upbringing, Christian, came to university in the big city looking for something a bit different.

P: uh huh.

M: If I’m going to paraphrase your story here, and discovered yoga and then from there meditation. So what benefits has it given you?

P: Well that’s a big question. I think the big thing about meditation is quieting the mind so when you meditate it’s not about stilling the mind, you know people say ‘think of nothing, empty your mind.’ Emptying your mind is bad. It is not good. And I really like Gelong Thubten’s interpretation of meditation, in terms of thinking of your brain like a highway. So you’ve got lots of traffic, got lots of cars going to and forth. If you stop the flow of thought. If you stop your mind being active, traffic’s gonna jam. There’s going to be a backup of traffic. There’s going to be problems. There’s not going to be a transfer of thought processes going through and you’re going to miss a whole heap of stuff because the traffic’s backed up.

It’s more about bringing your attention to each individual car on that highway and allowing it to pass through. So you’re not necessarily stilling your mind. You’re allowing each thought to come up. You’re recognising it and then letting it go. In terms of being aware of that you’re trying to be bringing in mindfulness, so bringing in that mindful state of going ‘I see that car, I see that thought and I will let it go. And then you’re trying to make me focus on the awareness of thoughts that you need, the awareness of thoughts that you want to retain and the awareness of thoughts that you want to let through and just let them keep going.

M: So in a way are you practising reinforcing positive thoughts and dismissing negative thoughts is that part of meditation?

P: I believe it is. It definitely was from my experience, because it’s initially it was all about the negative thoughts and focusing on those negative thoughts and going ‘Oh, I’ve really got to address that!’ and that’s a lot of anxiety and stress around that, whereas the more reading I did about meditation, the more I understood about allowing that balance and flow to come through. But allowing my mind for a little while to focus on the nice thinks the positive things, the things that brought me quiet smiles, gentle thoughts the things that would make me unwind from my anxiety. [Whispering] Which were pretty great when I was only 21 years old.

[Laughter]

P: Just saying [laugh]

M: In all fairness millennials are struggling there’s an epidemic of anxiety. Our younger generations, we’re putting so many pressures on them nowadays that, you know, you and I didn’t have and out parents definitely didn’t have growing up and they’re anxious. So maybe meditation is something we should be talking about more.

P: Again we’re coming back to the Scandinavian example of instilling meditation into schools. Even at the ripe, young age of infancy school, there are certain schools and business, uh, organisations out there that are instilling meditation. There’s a wonderful example of one in China I think [actually Baltimore] it was where instead of having detention they introduce meditation.

M: Oh, I think I’ve seen that one.

P: Yes, it’s about changing the story, changing the process. You’re being punished because you did something wrong. Whereas they’re going, no let’s investigate the reasons behind why you’re acting in this way. It’s a game changer, it changes our awareness. And I think in this case, the millennials, I think this is something we really need to explore. We’re more conscious, we’re sifting through information now than we’ve ever done. It’s important to maybe be more aware of how we interpret that information, why we’re interpreting certain bits of it than others.

M: And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with having a closer look at your own feelings. I know that there’s a lot of work right now in the men’s mental health space, particularly older generations who have traditionally been told, buck up and suck it up and don’t express emotions. And they keep sucking it up until they explode. And they either explode in anger or violence or both. And it’s not healthy, we know that now.

P: And I think anger and violence is very often turned on themselves. The suicide rate for rural men has been alarmingly high. I think, in America and in Australia, that example of clocking that and … the governments are investing money into mental health of people who are in isolated areas making sure that they have support, that they’ve got access to phone lines, medical support and the mate-ship factor. It was the pubs, in the country pubs it’s where you, upended you’re feelings, it was a safe place for blokes to go ‘Geez mate the crops are bad, the wife’s giving me hell.’ You talk things out.

M: I love you being a country man.

[Laughter]

M: A country bloke!

P: [Laugh] I spent my childhood years with my father driving around the western/ sub-western areas of NSW and Dad always pulled into the pub. That’s his way of dealing with the monotony of things and maybe getting some thought processes out, he didn’t have a counsellor or anything he could talk to. It was over a beer at the pub.

M:  And that sounds like meditation might be another tool that people could use to become more aware of their internal monologue and their feelings and their emotions and maybe short circuit the traditional way they’ve dealt with that.

P: Yep.

M: Just to bottle it until they can’t.

P: Yep, absolutely.

M: [Chipper voice] So Pete,

P: [Laugh]

M: There are various types of meditation, right? Can you tell us about that?

P: [Laugh] Oh my god, you sound like an infomercial. Yes there are. So I’m gonna try and make it really simple.

M: Please do. This is all over my head.

P: Yeah, I’m going to make it really simple about the two different types. There’s Analytical and Placement meditation.

So Analytical meditation is where we’re contemplating the meaning of the text. So we’re looking at a spiritual text such as the Bible or something, the Koran [Quran], something that a Taoist monk has said so we’re looking at a sentence and going we’re going to focus on the meaning behind that sentence. That’s analytical meditation, taking a text and interpreting it, so meditation upon that and all the different areas on that.

M: So it’s like Bible study by yourself?

P: Yep, you could put it that way.

M: Yep, alright with you… next?

P: [Laugh] which then leads to Placement meditation. Now Placement meditation is possibly where most people think meditation is it’s the cause of a specific virtuous state of mind to arise. It’s a very complex sentence. We’re allowing a state of mind to come forth. So we’re not thinking of a text, we’re not thinking of don’t do wrong by your neighbour. We’re allowing that analytical faze to give way to a much more subtle faze where we’re allowing thoughts and certain things to drop in, so it might be ‘I really shouldn’t pinch the roses out of my neighbours garden.’

M: [Snort] Is that a habit of yours?

P: Well… no, no.

M: For me, I know I would sit down and it would be ‘Oh! that’s what I should have said yesterday when I was fighting with my colleague.’ Darn it! Right?

P: [Laugh]

M: Or when my boss told me to do that, have a perfect come back now.

P: Yeah.

M: Those are the things I ruminate on in the shower, generally.

[Laughter]

M: Next time, next time!

P: I think if we take that case and point that could be your analytical meditation. So ‘I should have said this. I should have done this.’ If you can sit with that for a little while, quietly allowing your thoughts and those vehicles to pass through. You actually might find yourself thinking about the reasons behind why that conversation happened in the first place. ‘Could I have actioned something earlier than that to avoid this situation?’ And that’s more that placement meditation I’m talking about where you’re allowing the thoughts to come and go, and you’re picking out the ones that are relevant, all the ones that are going to lead to a better action, a more heightened state, more frontal lobe activity, more happiness.

M: So we’re coming to the end of the podcast. For our listeners. How would you advise getting started on practising some basics of meditation?

P: Meditate badly…

M: Ok, I like it.

P: He, he. It’s really hard to do meditation. It’s like running a marathon you don’t just get up one morning and decide you’re going to run 42kms, you can’t, it’s not possible, you are going to hurt yourself. So Meditation’s exactly the same, it’s about starting small and making the smallest little step towards that 42kms mark.

So that means one minute.

M: So, go sit on the floor, cross your legs for a minute and close your eyes.

P: Turn off the tv, silence the radio, sit down for one minute with your thoughts and don’t let anything interrupt you. That means locking the cat in the bathroom.

[Laughter]

P: Not allowing your kids to run in. It’s got to be one minute and you’ll find that it’s actually quite difficult to then go to 2, then 3, 4 and 5 that becomes that’s a forward goal.

M: Do you set an egg timer?

P: Absolutely.

M: I would spend that minute counting seconds [Laugh].

P: I guess that’s the thing. It takes you, it takes you more than a minute to quiet the mind, and quiet in the mind is a pathway to the meditative state that we are seeking. So before we even get to that state, before we even get to running, we’ve got to walk out the door and put our training shoes on. It’s exactly the same with meditation we’ve got to feel comfortable in our sitting on the floor, cross legged. It could be sitting on the couch. It could be sitting in your favourite chair, but it’s about bringing that mindful state and then accessing that state where you slow the traffic and that can take a good four weeks of attempts to try and get there. And once you can achieve that, then you can start going ‘right that was two minutes of quality meditative time there, let’s see if I can expanded that to five over the next two weeks.

M: OK. I’m going to ask a few beginners questions. There’s no such thing as a dumb question. Just remember that?

P: No [meaning yes]

M: Okay, what’s with the crossing the legs. Do you have to do that?

P: No

M: Do you have to close your eyes?

P: No

M: Do you have to sit on the floor?

P: No

M: Do you have to sit?

P: Being still, is helpful to bring awareness to your brain and to your mind so you can’t necessarily meditate when you’re on the treadmill. Although my initial experience of meditation was through the yoga, through doing physical activity and being in downward dog and noticing my breath now that was a pathway to able to access the stillness and then I used that when it came to actually sitting down. When you’re doing yoga practise, you finish with shavasana which is dead man’s corpse pose where you’re lying on the ground, on your back with your palms up, close your eyes and you’re just concentrating on your breath. You’ve done 45 minutes, you’ve done five minutes, you’ve done an hour and a half of a yoga class, that last pose is where the magic is because you quiet everything and you bring your awareness to that really calm, still point and that’s the meditative state where you can really focus on thoughts without being physical.

M: So last question for you before we sign off. For people who are just overwhelmed with life, we’ve got so much going on, we’ve all got busy lives at work and at home.

What is one tip for quieting the mind?

P: Don’t be judgmental. Do not be judgmental on yourself on your thought processes. There is another quote here that I’ll read out.

‘Meditation is about turning inwards and being able to observe all of your thoughts and bodily sensations without judgement.’

M: I think that’s a perfect place to end.

P: It is.

M: All right. Thanks for joining us today. If you want to hear more please remember to subscribe and like this podcast.

P: And go out and buy a singing bowl and have a little gong for me.

M: [Laugh] until next time. Bye

P: Bye

[Gong and singing bowl]

[Happy exit music]

Meet besties Marie and Pete

Marie and Pete

Marie Skelton is an Australian writer, speaker, and change and resiliency expert. She started her career in journalism before working in public affairs and then specialising in organisational and culture change for some of the world’s largest tech and financial services companies, both in Australia and the U.S. She also played volleyball for Australia and on scholarship at a D1 university in the U.S. and she captained the NSW Women’s Volleyball team in the Australian Volleyball League.

Following a motorbike accident that nearly took her life, and leg, she began researching change and resiliency to find out how people cope with major life changes and why some people are really good at dealing with whatever life throws at them, while others struggle. She is passionate about mental health and writes about how to cope with today’s Change Storm and maintain mental wellness.  

Marie and Pete

Peter Furness is just plain awesome. He loves unicorns and champagne. Pete is the owner of Max Remedial, and a qualified remedial therapist and has worked all over the world with professional athletes, dancers, sporting organisations and medical professionals. Peter’s practice is influenced by his interest in Eastern philosophy and he works closely with Chinese and Ayurvedic practitioners, approaching the body from the principles of ancient medicine.

Peter has practiced Asstanga Yoga for 20 years and combines these principles with his approach to health.

Peter was also an award-winning contemporary dancer in Australia and in the UK.