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Optimism Lessons From Helen Keller (E55)

by

Happiness for Cynics podcast

This week Marie surprises Pete with a discussion about optimism and lessons about happiness that we could all learn from Helen Keller. 

Transcript

Show notes:

The Centre for Optimism – https://www.centreforoptimism.com/

[Happy intro music -background]

M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things, I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.

P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.

M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.

P: Plus, sometimes we’re kind of funny.

[Intro music fadeout]

M: All right, Pete. So today, I’m springing a topic on you.

P: Oh, I love when you do this.

M: Laugh.

P: Totally not prepared. I am an open slate for your musings.

M: Laugh. So we’re gonna have a chat. So I have a blog and we have this podcast and we write about happiness and we write specifically for cynics like I was.

P: Laugh.

M: And one of the things that there is a lot of research on, but the cynic tends to find the hardest wrap their head around, is this idea of positive thinking and how that can actually turn around your levels of happiness and your engagement with life.

P: Yes. Mmm, right.

M: It’s a real tough one for a lot of people to wrap their heads around.

P: It wasn’t for me, again straight in there.

M: Yeah.

P: Yeah.

M: You were not our primary audience.

P: No.

M: So.

P: No, no, definitely. So it will be interesting to see.

M: Laugh. So, I have also recently been reading Optimism by Helen Keller, and it blows my mind that someone who had so much stacked against her could be have such a positive outlook on life. And it makes me think about a lot of people who have less stacked against them and who have more of a negative outlook on life, more pessimism in their life.

P: Yep

M: And they look at what they’re achieving or what they’re not one of the point and what Helen Keller was able to achieve in her life. And I know it’s not all about success for people, it’s not all about achieving.

P: Yeah.

M: But I would argue, based on the way that Helen Keller writes in this, that she, she loved her life. She was happy.

P: She chose to love it.

M: Absolutely.

P: Chose to create joy.

M: So if you don’t know who Helen Keller is; Helen Keller became blind when she was 19 months old, and at that time kids were pretty much given up on. So she was blind and deaf. So she really was living in her own world. And for quite a long time she was not taught, sign language or how to form thoughts.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: And she was living in a really, very dark place. And it wasn’t until Helen’s mother read that a deaf-blind person had been educated, that her mom decided to explore that for her. And Helen Keller was the first blind and deaf person to earn a bachelor of arts degree, and she went on to become one of us celebrated women of the 20th century. And she’s written this book called Optimism, and it is just such an inspiration.

P: Oh, wow. I didn’t know that she’d written.

M: Yeah, absolutely. And I think if someone can be shut off from hearing and seeing both and find joy in life, what are the rest of us doing?

P: Laugh! Well, it’s about creating off the opportunity you have. So if you’ve been denied certain aspects, and for me, this kicks into the Buddhist principle of not coveting what you don’t have.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: It’s like you’ve been given this and so that is what you have. These are the tools with us you have to work with. So that is how you will create. So, you get a different tool box to me and this whole concept of, ‘but I want what she’s got’ that doesn’t factor into it. It’s like ‘no, look to your toolbox, to your strengths.’ And you look at what you have in your makeup that can create goodness or opportunity or happiness, success, whatever it is that you’re measuring.

M: Yeah, and there’s two things in there that we’ve talked about before, which is comparisons.

P: Mmm.

M: Which we know is so detrimental to our happiness, comparing what you have to others.

P: Yeah, definitely.

M: They’ve chosen different paths, they’ve had their own struggles and so comparing to others is never, ever a path to happiness.

P: Yep, definitely not.

M: And then the second one is being grateful for what you do have, when you start to flip your thinking, from ‘what don’t I have?’ to ‘what do I have?’

P: Mmm.

M: It’s so powerful.

P: And that’s the power of people like Helen, who are optimists. They see the advantage in every opportunity, like ‘I don’t have that, but I’ve got this!’

M: Mmm hmm.

P: I can bring this to the table, laugh.

M: Yep, and these are my strengths. Even though I’ve got a buttload of weaknesses over there, I’m going to use my strengths, to find happiness in life and to find things that bring me joy and pleasure. And for Helen, a lot of that was learning and writing.

P: Mmm.

M: She did a lot of writing in her life.

P: And it was her mother that was really the initiator of the education. She was home schooled?

M: She was taught one on one. So, her mother went out and I think found someone to teach her sign language. And they did things like grab her hand and let it run under water and then put her hand into the symbol for water so that she could then use that symbol when she wanted to drink water.

P: Gotcha, yeah.

M: So, it was before that even understanding the concept of water would have been difficult when you can’t see it or hear it, right? So she was just in a complete lightless room with no sound for years of her life.

P: Mmm.

M: And still was actually, after that, it’s just that she could form thoughts.

P: Mmm mm.

M: And that’s really what opened her mind to so much more. But she would have along the way, as she was educated, become very aware that she was different from others, I’m sure.

P: Yeah, and you know at a detriment as well, ‘I don’t have these basic abilities that so many other people have.

M: Yep.

P: It’s always the way when you read these great stories of people that have overcome adversity and great adversity to come out the other side.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And it’s not that we don’t begrudge them their success or anything, but it is inspiring to see someone conquer their ahh, not their foibles, their… The things that they don’t have, laugh.

M: Their weaknesses.

P: Yeah

M: I’m not even going to call them anything more than a weakness because everyone has things that they’re good at and bad at. But definitely, I think there’s also something in there about overcoming trauma and real… bad, bad things that hurt people.

P: Laugh! So how does one maintain optimism in the face of adversity?

M: Well, I think that to start, to start with, it’s gratitude, definitely. You know, we’ve mentioned quite a few times just getting into the practise off being grateful. It is best if you can write it down in a journal. So spend just five minutes, less than five minutes every evening writing down what went well and retraining your brain for the positives.

P: Training your brain to identify that. Yes. It’s a winner.

M: Yeah, absolutely. And if you’re a sceptic out there and don’t believe that’s going to make any difference, then I challenge you to do it for a month and write to me.

P: Laugh! You’re going to get these ugly emails.

M: Laugh.

P: People with folded arms, ‘I don’t feel any different!’

M & P: Laughter!

M: I challenge you, I really do, write to me. I don’t know what I’m going to do once you write to me…

P: Laugh!

M: But it has been proven again and again and again. And person-  I can speak from experience personally, it’s made such a difference to me and my relationship with my husband as well, because we do it together.

P: Yeah, interesting.

M: Yep.

P: I think the other thing with optimism is that – People talk about luck people talk about are they are so lucky they get these opportunities and so forth? I don’t think I actually believe in luck. I think that part of optimism is looking for opportunity but being prepared for it when it comes along.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: So, you work on hard on things that you try to do and one of those is training your brain to be grateful and gracious and be mindful so that when an opportunity just pokes its little head up from around the corner, it doesn’t come screaming at you like a freight train just goes [whispers] ‘Hello, I’m over here in the corner. Look at me.’ Laugh.

M: Your luck is kind of creepy.

P: Laugh! But it’s being able to go ‘Ah, there’s opportunity, come over here you and let’s have a look at what you’ve got.’

M: Or I’m not so cynical to that opportunity that I’m unwilling to take a look.

P: Yes, exactly. It’s someone willing to open that door and go in.

M: And there’s a great book called The Happiness Advantage by Shawn Achor and he talks about how happy people are more successful. And the irony is that people who want success and get on that hedonic treadmill and chase the straight A’s and the career progression and the money etcetera.

P: Laugh.

M: If they’re putting that success first above their happiness, then they’re actually gonna be less successful because the happier you are, the more people want to be around you. The more extroverted and friendly and likeable you are the more those moments of luck or opportunity open up to you in your career and in picking a life partner and in social circles and friends, all of those things open up to you, the happier you are.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: And it’s a bit of a shame that it’s a bit of a catch 22 as well, because a lot of people are not happy because they’re lonely or because they don’t have the success.

P: Yeah.

M: And, you know, it’s hard to then tell people to think positive thoughts and be optimistic if they don’t have the things.

P: […] ‘Slap, snap out of it!’ Literally, it’s so good! It’s like come on, wake up!

M: So, if you find that you’re just rolling your eyes going ‘I work really hard at work, I’ve tried to make friends in this new city, I’ve tried to find a husband or a wife or a boyfriend or girlfriend and it’s just not working for me and all this is BS.

P: Mmm.

M: If that’s sort of where you are in life, then I’d say some really great things.

Gratefulness. Firstly, start retraining your mind to stop looking at everything is bad and a failure and negative.

P: Yes.

M: Two, to go do some volunteering.

P: Yep. Great idea.

M: Yep. Firstly, it starts to build social bonds. You don’t necessarily find your significant other by doing this or your best buddy, but you will form strong friendships. It gets you out and out of the house as well and often get you a little bit of exercise, depending on what you’re doing because you have to go somewhere. It’s just such a tick. So many boxes and his just a really good way to start getting you thinking about happiness as a by product rather than success as the only thing that matters.

P: True, yep.

It’s saying yes! Challenge yourself to say yes for a week.

M: Mmm.

P: I like that one. And I think that that is kind of where you’ve gotten with Helen, and her work is ‘Yes, I could do this, yes, I can do that.’

M: Yeah.

P: Yes, I have the opportunity. If you say yes more often, then all of a sudden, more yes’s start to come.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: It’s probably because then you might find your social calendar a little bit full because you keep saying yes to everything.

M: Laugh.

P: But it’s a roundabout way because in that saying yes, you might meet someone else that invites you somewhere else. And that can be how you meet your lifelong partner or so forth. So it has a funny way of shifting the rule book if you like.

M: Yep.

P: By just that one change of word, stop saying no, say yes and commit.

M: So I am going to read a small thing from a small excerpt from Optimism by Helen Keller and tell me you’re not inspired, okay:

It is curious to observe what different ideals of happiness people cherish, and in what singular places they look for this well-spring of their life. Many look for it in the hoarding of riches, some in the pride of power, and others in the achievements of art and literature; a few seek it in the exploration of their own minds, or in the search for knowledge.

Most people measure their happiness in terms of physical pleasure and material possession. Could they win some visible goal which they have set on the horizon, how happy they would be! Lacking this gift or that circumstance, they would be miserable. If happiness is to be so measured, I who cannot hear or see have every reason to sit in a corner with folded hands and weep. If I am happy in spite of my deprivations, if my happiness is so deep that it is a faith, so thoughtful that it becomes a philosophy of life, —if, in short, I am an optimist, my testimony to the creed of optimism is worth hearing.  As sinners stand up in meeting and testify to the goodness of God, so one who is called afflicted may rise up in gladness of conviction and testify to the goodness of life.

Once I knew the depth where no hope was, and darkness lay on the face of all things. Then love came and set my soul free.

M: I’ll stop there, I could keep going.

P: Laugh.

M Because she writes so beautifully as well, but for someone who has been through things that you and I just couldn’t even imagine.

P: No, of course not.

M: It almost makes you feel guilty for feeling so well -laugh.

P: Well, yeah. It’s a good emotional level. It reminds me, there was… I can’t remember it, a philosopher, but it’s basically ‘a miserable being, must find a more miserable being then he is happy.’

M: Mmm. Actually, in having been through mental health issues, I think I definitely when I was depressed, gravitated towards other depressed people because it’s hard to be around people who are happy when you don’t feel happy.

P: Yeah, definitely. Because then you do feel like you’re losing and you’re not, not winning.

M: Well, no, it’s just that you’re faking it the whole time. It’s exhausting. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So, look, I think optimism is something you’ve got to learn and excise like going to the gym.

P & M: Laugh.

P: It’s a training exercise.

M: Absolutely.

P: Keep at it daily, consistency is key.

M: It is. It is. And without it, you’re really doing yourself a bit of a disservice. If succeeding in life is something that motivates you, this’s that extra study or that extra work that you have to put in to do that.

So what makes you optimistic, Pete?

P: Oohh! Small pleasures. I think if I was to be challenged, if I’ve had a challenging week and I’ve had some difficult things going on, I think investing in small pleasures is my way out of it. So when things were going south there for a while, with work and with business, I went into the kitchen. And I just went right for the next 30 minutes. I’m not going to think about any of that. I’m just going to focus on cooking myself a meal. Domesticity is for me, clean something, laugh! Pick a room, do it over shifting the furniture.

M: Hmm.

P: That’s a really good one. For me. It’s distraction, but its creative distraction on it taps into that nothingness and that idleness, which is ah well, spring for creative thought and sometimes creative solutions. Problem solving.

M: I also like that, if you’re not feeling optimistic, what you’re doing actually is controlling what you can control.

P: Yes.

M: So you can control the layout of your lounge room or what you cook, mostly.

P: Yes.

M: Depending on your cooking skills.

P & M: Laughter.

M: You can mostly control what you’re doing in the kitchen. So that gives you a sense of control around that.

P: Yes, mmm.

M: Yep, definitely. For me I have to say what makes me most optimistic is a challenge.

P: Ohh.

M: lt gets me fighting.

P: Yeah, righto. Yep.

M: So, I’m generally quite optimistic. I’m more of a glass half full person, but throw challenge my way and I see it as a challenge that I will overcome and I’ll fight tooth and nail to overcome.

P: Yeah, alright.

M: If needed. So, once I’ve set my mind to it.

P: Once you’ve taken, accepted the challenge.

M: Exactly then I’m all in, all in!

P: Laugh!

M: And Francis, my husband, who will attest it’s the most infuriating thing, we could be lost in the middle of nowhere, I’m like, ‘Nope, this is it. We are going to make it home by dinner, you better believe it.

P: Laugh!

M: We don’t need a map. I don’t care that we have no reception.

P: Laugh.

M: We are going! So, the more of a challenge that is presented, the more I dig my heels in and the more I probably have poorly placed ideas off success. But so far, they’ve all lead me to the right place. Mostly I think.

P: Yeah, I think you’re in the right place.

M: Definitely.

P & M: Laughter!

M: All righty. Well, this is a pretty short one today, but I did just love that exert and the reading from Helen Keller. So I just want to talk about optimism today. And there is a great organisation [The Centre for Optimism] that I think is headquartered out of WA. That focuses on optimism, and I’ll pop it in the show notes as well. But there is so much again research and study on the topic of optimism and what a big difference it can make your life.

P: Mmm. Maybe our listeners could do that for a five-day trial. Try being try being optimistic, and l mean in all aspects.

M: I like your ‘yes’ challenge.

P: When you catch yourself being the negative nelly. Good old negative nelly.

M & P: Laugh!

P: Get some reading, pick up this book and try one action that challenges that negativity and turns it into an optimistic situation.

M: Yep. All right, on that note.

P: Good-luck.

M: Good bye.

[Happy exit music – background]

M: Thanks for joining us today if you want to hear more please remember to subscribe and like this podcast and remember you can find us at www.marieskelton.com, where you can also send in questions or propose a topic.

P: And if you like our little show we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.

M: Until next time.

M & P: Choose happiness.

[Exit music fadeout]

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Are You Getting Enough Sleep? (E54)

by

Happiness for Cynics podcast

This week, Marie and Pete talk about how sleep affects your health and happiness. So, are you getting enough sleep?

Transcript

[Happy intro music -background]

M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.

P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.

M: So if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.

P: Plus, sometimes we’re kind of funny.

[Intro music fadeout]

P: Oh… We’re on? [Silly voice] Are we good to go? He he. Am I on? Hello?

M & P: Laughter.

M: You are on.

P: I shouldn’t be on, we should be sleeping. We need more sleep.

M: We do need more sleep.

P: Apparently we’re not sleeping enough.

M: Actually, I’m really good at sleep.

P: Laugh.

M: Ask anybody.

P: Me too. I don’t sleep [the same as] with everyone’s sleep patterns, but I like my sleep.

M: I love my sleep.

P: Laugh.

M: And I protect it and guard it. Obviously this is the one thing I’m not failing at in my life.

P: Laugh. Exhibit.

M: Absolutely. So why do we need more sleep, Pete?

P: Our sleep is so good for us. There’s so much that sleep does for us. It’s basically influences our physical and mental capacity and every aspect of our life. So if you’re not getting sleep, things don’t happen! Laugh.

M: Absolutely. And we’re increasingly not getting enough sleep.

P: We are, in the 1940’s, eight hours of sleep was the normal arrangement of sleep, and we were pretty good at getting that amount of sleep. That was the average amount that most Americans and Australians were getting. But in the contemporary 21st century, we’re getting less and less.

In 2016, 30% of U.S. citizens were not getting seven hours of sleep. And in Australia, according to a health line survey conducted in March 2019 32% of Australians are also not getting seven hours of sleep. So we’re losing, at least one hour there.

M: And there’s been over the last 10/20 years a whole lot of books by quacks, complete quacks that say you can operate on four hours or five hours a night.

P: No. It’s bullshit.

M: It is.

P: Do not believe it people. Laugh.

M: Just like the dieting fads, these sleep fads are really harmful for you.

P: Yep, they are.

M: And not only that, yet again, you will die!

P: Yeah, laugh. Pretty much and it won’t be pretty. There’s a, there’s a direct link between cardiovascular health and sleep, diabetes, pretension, asthma, flues and colds, cancers, heart attacks.

M: Heart attacks in women in particular and more weight issues, which then leads to diabetes.

P: That’s a pre morbidity indicator.

M: Yeah, absolutely. You get more cravings of sugars and fats because your energy levels drop if you’re not getting enough sleep. So what does your body do when it’s low on energy?

P: Go get more fuel.

M: Exactly, it craves all those bad foods.

M: Yes.

P: The sugars.

M: So if you are obese. One of the first things you should be looking at if you’re hoping to lose weight is your sleep.

P: Mmm. Make sure you get enough sleep.

M: Yep.

P: And that means eight hours, not seven.

M: For adults.

P: Yes.

M: And it is more for teenagers and more for children and even more for babies. And here’s the really scary thing, we’re not even letting our infants get the recommended amount of sleep a lot of the time.

P: Oh really?

M: Yes.

P: Oh, Ok.

M: So you would never, never, if you were told how much sleep your baby should get, want to deprive that child of sleep.

P: Very true.

M: Why do you do it to yourself? This is yet another example of where we’re so much harder on ourselves than we are on other people.

P: Yes.

M: You’d never deny someone else they’re asleep that they say they need.

P: No.

M: Then we do it to ourselves all the time.

P: And another myth about sleeping is, it’s not a bank.

M: Yeah.

P If you miss out on sleep. You can’t make it up by having a big sleep. That doesn’t work that way.

M: No, not at all.

P: So that myth debunked, laugh!

M: It’s a debunking episode today isn’t it?

P: Laugh.

M: The other thing is, it makes you look old. It’s like smoking or getting out in the sun. So, you know, you get the bags under your eyes it’s really bad for your skin.

P: Your cells don’t regenerate as much.

M: Yep.

P: Not getting enough sleep has a huge effect on our cellular damage and our organs. The ability for our organs to regenerate.

Dr. Pam Taub of the UC San Diego School of Medicine talks a lot about this. She’s been doing a lot of work with firefighters and people on shift work and working around why they are so prone to cardiovascular disease and cancer due to the disruption of their circadian rhythms and the interruption of natural sleeping patterns.

M: So moving toward 24/7 world is going to kill us.

P: And that’s one of things that has killed us, and that’s one of the big shifting factors is in the post industrialised era we have more ready access to food, and we are eating much longer during the day. Our ancestors used to eat when the sun was up. We’re now eating well into the evening and we’re eating first thing when we get up, we get up at six, we get a coffee, we grab some breakfast and then we go to the gym and then we’ll go to the work and we’ll have something at 11 o’clock so we’re eating for longer.

We’re not getting that downtime of 10 hours where we’re not putting food in our stomachs. That’s upsetting our circadian rhythms. And that, in turn, upsets our sleep patterns.

M: Mmm.

P: It’s one of the big indicators that I found in some of the reading that I’ve done and the other, the other issue that comes around with that is our access to light.

M: Yes.

P: And the fact that there’s light pollution. Professor Ian Hickey of the University of Sydney is a big critic of light pollution and its links to bipolar and mood disorders.

M: Interesting.

P: And he talks [about] cognitive disorders being much larger amongst the teenage population because of our addiction to devices. Kids are going to their rooms and they have their iPad and they have their phone and they’re staying up until two o’clock in the morning on Facebook, watching YouTube and things like that. That’s having a major issue and damaging effect to our brain retention and mood cognition. And he says that’s a big one for getting rid of the issues that make us not get enough sleep.

M: I have to say it is one of our ongoing marital arguments.

P: Aaahh.

M: That Francis and I have.

P: Laugh! I’m going to go out on a limb here, are you the one on the devices or is Francis?

M: No, no, no. Not devices, light. In the bedroom.

P: Oh, yes. Right.

M: So he wants absolute pitch black or he says he can’t sleep, whereas I want to wake naturally with light rather than in a pitch black room and I can’t tell whether it’s eight AM or two AM and wake to a blaring alarm in a pitch black room.

P: Yes.

M: That to me just gets me up and in the wrong frame of mind and, and often times waking up in the middle of a sleep cycle rather than coming out of a sleep cycle and waking naturally.

P: Yeah.

M: So there’s no, there’s no solution, for the two of us, right?

P: I’m on your bank there Marie, because the fact that sunlight coming in stimulates our body into melanin production and all those, those responses that need to happen it’s a, I’m a big one for waking up with the sunshine.

M: Yes. So I think for the rest of my life that I live with Francis, for better or worse, we will be arguing over how much light is in our room when we go to sleep in the evenings.

P: Laugh. Well, how much does light affect us? You’ve referenced a study in Germany here.

M: Oh, I love this study. I love all studies that I come across!

P: Laugh!

M: There’s something fascinating to me about studies in psychology. Most of them, some of them are just dry as anything and so boring.

P: Yeah, laugh.

M: But so many of them are just super cool.

P: Where do these people come up with these ideas?

M: I know, they’re great!

P: Laugh.

M: And another area that you have to look into if you find this stuff as fascinating as me is behavioural economics because that is some really trippy stuff.

P: Wow, Okay.

M: Where you think that people would do… So It’s stuff like you put a marshmallow in front of a kid and you say, “if you wait five minutes and don’t eat it I’ll give you another one.”

P: Laugh.

M: And then walk away. And a lot of kids will just go ‘meh’ and eat the marshmallow when if they’d only waited five minutes they could have had two.

P: Two!

M: But that’s not how human behaviour works, right?

P: Laugh!

M: That’s the really simple behavioural economics, kind of.

P: In a nut shell.

M: Yep.

P: It’s a marshmallow.

M & P: Laughter.

M: But we do some really whack things, humans, that just go against our self-interest –

P: Laugh!

M: – all the time! Anyway.

P: Like not getting enough sleep, laugh.

M: Yep. Yes, laugh, back to what we were talking about.

P: Laugh. Reverse! Come on, reel it in!

M & P: Laughter!

M: So this study in the late sixties and early seventies in Germany, where they put a bunch of people into a bunker and they had no idea of the time. So, there was no natural light, no radios, no TVs, no clocks, nothing for weeks.

P: For weeks!?

M: For weeks!

P: Oh my god, those poor people.

M: And they watched. I think they just found a bunch of students, to be honest. They were happy to do some quiet study, laugh.

P: And get paid for you it.

M: And get paid, yeah. Which is, you know, pretty much every study is just students.

P & M: Laughter!

P: We know one of those, laugh.

M: Poor students.

P: Laugh, that’s why she can come to dinner every now and then.

M & P: Laughter.

M: So they then watched all of these people and saw how their bodies realigned to some kind of rhythm. And they did.

P: Mmm.

M: They reverted to their natural rhythm, so free from any external indicators of what they should be doing, their bodies went back to a natural rhythm of wakefulness and sleep.

P: Mmm.

M: Now there were, just as a side note, a few crazies out there who went to a 48 hour rhythm with their awake hours.

P: Oh, wow.

M: So this isn’t when we talk about “normal” I’ve got a quotes going for people at home.

P: Laugh.

M: And when we talk about “normal”, there are always exceptions. And there were in this study, some exceptions of people who went to a 48 hour body clock, and that was normal for them.

P: So did that mean that they were sleeping for longer periods and staying awake for longer periods?

M: Yes.

P: But their average amount of sleep across seven days would be the same as someone on a 24 hour cycle?

M: I didn’t look that closely, laugh.

P: Maybe you should see?

M: Ah, look at our show notes, I’ll see if I can find that, laugh. [Please see full study on sleep cycles here.]

P: All the reading of the research that I have done says that that would be the case, even though sleeping is not a bank. Like you can’t have one big, long sleep and make up your sleep. But you do need regular intervals of sleep/ wakefulness to keep those circadian rhythms happening.

M: And to do things like commit things to memory, long term memory.

P: Yes.

M: It’s so critical for making those connections and banking all of your data the end of the day.

P: Yeah.

M: I don’t think that, again I’ll have to look into it, but I highly doubt people are awake for 24 hours and then sleeping for a full 24 hours.

P: Yeah.

M: I’d say they’re probably at 36 of awake and then a good 12 hours sleep or something.

P: That would be interesting.

M: Or they may have been having naps throughout that time.

P: Ah, so does napping work?

M: Well, according to science, it does.

P: Okay.

M: Yep, but anyway, most people in the bunker study, the bunker sleep study, reverted to a 25 hour body clock.

P: Interesting.

M: So we’re an hour out from the day.

P: Mmm.

M: And I find that a little bit interesting. So when we’re out not in bunkers, laugh.

P: Laugh!

M: And have access to daylight to guide our activities. We, we go and follow and force our bodies to follow a 24 hour clock, generally with some small exceptions when we party too much at university and things like that.

P: Laugh.

M: But we force up what is into a 24 hour cycle. And that might actually be, not great for anyone, either.

P: I’m wondering if whether the weather, seasons, make a difference as well?

M: Mmm.

P: We tend sleep more during winter because it is darker.

M: Earlier, yep.

P: Whereas in summer, we’re out and we can’t sleep because it’s hot sometimes and the sun is up a lot longer, so again, that might be the 25 hour rhythm.

M: Well, remember when we were in Sweden?

P: Yeah, that was weird way absolutely.

M: And we came out of the restaurant and it was 11 o’clock at night and it was still light.

P & M: Laugh.

M: Yeah, and that really messed with us for a while. We were all so jet lagged, I would say.

P: Laugh. Well, it’s interesting you touched on the types of sleep because Dr Laura Jacobson, who’s the head of the Sleep and Cognition Laboratory of the Florey Institute of Neuroscience and Mental Health, that’s a mouthful, –

M: Laugh.

P: – in Melbourne in Australia, she says that getting quality of sleep is important. Everyone talks about REM sleep and that REM sleep is so important for what we need.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: It is important for our invention and our problem-solving capability. I think it was Isaac Newton who said that his theories came to him in a dream. Composers talk about it all the time, ‘oh the melody came to me in a vision when I was asleep.’ And that’s because REM sleep accesses those inventive areas of our brain.

M: It makes, it allows you to make the connections between the different parts of your brain, and that is where you get true creativity. So, it’s when the math part of your brain talks to the psychology part of your brain, and you’d never put those two together. And that’s why some of the greatest inventions were from people who had broad education and understood a little bit about everything.

P: Yeah, ‘cause they could link things together.

M: They could make those links, and they guaranteed, would not have made those links without the freedom, free of devices and free of people to let their minds wander and make connections, but also without some really good sleep.

P: Yep, who was the apple on the head dude?

M: Newton.

P: Newton, him, Yeah!

M: Laugh.

P: Sitting under a tree, apple hits him on the head. ‘Ah, I’ve come up with the theory of…

M: Relativity.

P: I was thinking that.

M: No, gravity.

P: Right, relativity was Einstein. Oh, we’re going all over the place here, I need more sleep! Laugh!

M: Gravity.

P & M: Laugh!

P: But, getting back to Dr Jacobson, she also talks about the importance of non-REM sleep and that we equally need that because that’s good for our learning and our memory retention and organising our memories into long term memory and short term memory. So, which would explain why, if you’re not getting quality sleep, it’s constantly being broken, and you’re not getting that natural swing between REM and non-REM sleep. You’re befuddled the next day, you can’t recall things, you can’t remember what the article said that you were reading 5 minutes ago.

M: What the thing was?

P: The theory of relativity versus gravity?

M & P: Laugh!

M: You know that thing, dooby whacker.

P: Laugh. So students who are pulling all-nighters before exams. You’re doing yourself a disservice?

M: Well, it is important, you know, to say that you can sustain it for short amounts of time. So if you are pulling an all-nighter before an exam – Oh, sorry. If you’re pulling an all-nighter to get a paper in.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: Then you can do that and not see the decline straight away. But the next day, after you’ve handed your paper in, you know, you’re going to feel it, right?

P: Yeah, you will feel it.

M: You’ll feel it.

P: This is what I’m finding with a lot of the research they’re saying, don’t fool yourself if you’re denying yourself sleep, it will hit you.

M: Absolutely.

P: There’s a there’s a compensation that has to happen. Same as if you’re going to not eat for 24 hours, you can’t go and exercise when you’re not eating.

M: Yep.

P: But you can, not eat for 24 hours and you won’t die. It’s actually good for you.

M: Ooohhh! In some situations.

P: Well, that another episode right there. We’re going to get side-tracked in a minute.

M: Uh, huh. You’ve got to be –

P: Laugh, I’m pro-fasting.

M: – really, you’ve got to be really careful. Fasting is not for everyone.

P: Yep, another episode.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: Laugh.

M: So, back to napping though,

P: Yes.

M: There are definitely revitalising effects that come with napping.

P: Ok. ‘Cause I’m not a napper.

M: And – no me neither, I get really groggy.

P: I find it really frustrating.

M: Oh I can, I can, I just want a nap for three to four or five hours, laugh.

P: Which they say isn’t good for you.

M: Which means I can’t sleep at night.

P: Yeah.

M: So the ideal amount of time is about 90 minutes.

P: Oh, really?

M: But as short as 20.

P: Oh, Okay.

M: And here’s why a lot of people don’t do it because they can wake up in the middle of a sleep cycle and feel groggy and therefore not feel like they got any benefit from it there feeling worse than when they had when they went for the nap.

P: Right.

M: So the trick here is splashing water on your face and take a few steps to get your heart rate up again.

P: Ok.

M: And your brain will actually have had the benefits from that nap.

P: Oh.

M: So, it is worthwhile if you can get a nap in because you feel you need it.

P: Yep the power nap idea.

M: Always worthwhile to do it, even if you do wake yourself up in the middle of a sleep cycle, you’ve still let your brain have some downtime to recover, to put all those things into long term memory, etcetera, etcetera.

P: Yes, mmm.

M: So 20 to 90 minutes. And also, if you can’t do it during the day, which there’s no way I could fit a nap into my corporate life.

P: Laugh!

M: It’s just not happening.

P: Yep.

M: If you can’t do that, then a nap on the weekend is better than no nap. So if you only do a nap on Sundays.

P: A lot of people do that.

M: Yep. Do it.

P: Understood?

M: Absolutely.

P: So before we wrap up, how do we get better sleep if we’re not getting enough sleep?

M: There’s so many things that go into this.

P: Mmm. There are.

M: And, so many different things you should talk to your doctor about. And I’m gonna bring it back to me again.

P: Laugh.

M: Because it’s all about me, laugh. I suffered with bad sleep for a number of years because of my diet.

P: Ah, yes.

M: And it wasn’t because I was eating late. It was purely because I’ve had food allergies and intolerances for so many years, and it impacts my ability to sleep and stay asleep.

P: Understandable.

M: And everyone would tell me ‘you need more sleep’. And I was getting plenty of sleep. It wasn’t light, it wasn’t devices, it wasn’t all the usual things. So absolutely talk to your doctor of you having troubles with sleep because there are so many different things that can impact your sleep. But I think you’ve got three here, Pete, that we might end on that are the usual culprits, right?

P: Yes. So eating late, we’ve talked about it.

Don’t eat late.

Try to give yourself 10 hours without food, so don’t eat [late], especially don’t do what I do, which is a big meal before going to bed, it just keeps you up.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: I’m really bad at it because I finish work late. So don’t eat late.

Put down the devices, no light pollution.

Now that can also come down to keeping lights on in the bedroom, reading just before you go to bed. Which again I’m guilty of, having lots of light around you upsets your circadian rhythms and won’t allow you to rest.

M: Or having poor curtains or outside light.

P: Yep.

M: We have an apartment once that had a big spotlight.

P: Urrgghh.

M: And it used just come in out bedroom window.

P: That’s rough.

M: Most annoying thing in the world.

P: Yep, you want to get a BB-gun and take that thing out.

M & P: Laughter!

P: Last one.

Establish a routine that naturally brings you down.

P: So for me, one of the best things that I can do is to turn all my lights to really low and do some yoga. 20 minutes of yoga, not the big arches and the standing series, nice gentle on the floor, a couple of stretches with some soft music, if you need it, or no music at all. Decrease all the sensitivity of the sympathetic nervous system and naturally you’ll drift off to sleep really well.

M: I personally try to read for 10 minutes every night before bed, at least.

P: Which is fine because you’re resting and it’s fine to do that as long as you.

M: So no device and no white light

P: Yeah, no white light.

M: Definitely, come in here, turn the main lights off. Put the reading light on. Get into bed. 10 minutes often becomes 30 minutes or an hour but I’ll read and it’s –

P: – It’s your way to come down. It’s a good way to do it.

M: Yep.

P: Then you’re not like my mother with the woman’s weekly on your chest at 4am in the morning with glasses on.

M: Laugh!

P: Such a funny sight. You walk past and you’re like ‘Yeah, that’s good.’

And on that happy image, get more sleep people, it’s important!

M: Good night.

[Happy exit music – background]

M: Thanks for joining us today if you want to hear more please remember to subscribe and like this podcast and remember you can find us at www.marieskelton.com, where you can also send in questions or propose a topic.

P: And if you like our little show we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.

M: Until next time.

M & P: Choose happiness.

[Exit music fadeout]

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Why we Need to Bring Back Touch (E53)

by

Happiness for Cynics podcast

Are you lonely, sad, or anxious? If so, you might need more touch in your life. This week, Marie and Pete talk about why we need to bring back touch. 

Transcript

[Happy intro music -background]

M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.

P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.

M: So if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.

P: Plus, sometimes we’re kind of funny.

[Intro music fadeout]

P: Touch. It’s my episode. It’s all about what I do. Also it’s my love language, apparently. I didn’t know that until we started doing the podcast.

M: Yes.

P: You knew, apparently.

M: I picked you, I called it.

P: Certainly.

M: Either that or we have to talk about your sexuality.

P: Laughter!

M: Okay, we’re going with touch is your love language, got it.

P: Touch is important people, very important.

M: It’s so important for your happiness and so many other things. It’s just so interconnected, everything we talk about.

P: Yes, and apparently, we’re touching less. This surprises me.

M: Covid!

P: Not only Covid.

M: Well…

P: Yeah, there’s other eelements [elements] in there as well, eelements? That sounded l New Zealand, Laugh.

M: Eelements?

P: Eelements, laugh. Apparently we have been touching less for sometime, since before covered for various reasons.

M: Well, for centuries, actually. So religion-

P: Mmm.

M: – is the first thing that we always love to blame.

P & M: Laugh!

M: But along with religion, came a shame in extra-marital touching.

P: Yes.

M: Whether it was platonic or not.

P: It became the taboo.

M: Absolutely. So it was seen as cheap, dirty, tarty.

P: Yes. Leading one on –

M: All the things that were called [inappropriate].

P: – How dare you?

M: Absolutely. So it started way back then.

P: It did.

M: And then there’s also a whole lot of different cultural differences around the world in terms of what’s acceptable.

P: Yes, and where you can touch in terms of culture.

M: Yes, absolutely.

P: Also weather. Climate apparently makes a big difference. So people who live in warmer climates are more inclined to be physically affectionate than people who live in colder climates.

M: I would have thought that would be the other way around.

P: No.

M: Cause if you’re warm and hot, you’re like sticky and gross.

P: No, well apparently not, it invites touching because of loose clothing and skin being shown and that sort of stuff. So culturally I think they’re talking.

M: Aaahh.

P: I thought that was an interesting one.

M: I like it. So there are definitely differences culturally and also just we are touching less and a lot of it more recently, back to your original point is due to technology.

P: Mmm yep.

M: We are spending less time with people we care about in face to face situations and more time with people we don’t care as much about online.

P & M: Laughter!

P: There’s a classic example of everyone sitting around on the couch with their phones on and not engaging.

M: Mmm hmm, yep. And then now we’ve had Covid in the last year.

P: Yes, we have. Yes, there’s also been some social issues as well that have actually created the fear of touch, one of them being the decades of sexual misconduct, which is starting to come to light in more recent times. So all those misconduct cases of people who were in trusted positions and that’s all coming to the floor now, with various movements and people being more comfortable coming out about it, this has created a fear of, of touch on that has become a non-desirable factor of life.

M: I think also what would have contributed to that, not only with things coming out coming to light more recently, the training that’s been happening since eighty’s and ninety’s, I’d say teachers, coaches, I know that when I’ve done all my coaching courses, they’re very clear on what is appropriate touch what’s not appropriate.

P: Yeah, I fell into that because I never did those courses and I was teaching community dance classes. And then they told me I couldn’t touch people. How am I supposed to teach them how to move without not touching them? That was very strange.

M: Mmm hmm. You are actually allowed to touch them, that’s probably bit over the top. But there’s very clear rules about how you can touch people.

P: Definitely.

M: Yes, so there’s a lot of really good touch that was happening that no longer happens. You know, and it’s caring touch.

P: Well, what do we lose if we don’t touch Marie?

M: Well, how we talk about we talk about the benefits?

P: Well, that was a direct question way.

M: What do we lose?

P: Laugh!

M: What do we gain?!  Glass half full.

P: I’m usually the half full guy, I don’t know why…

M: Not a problem. Well, firstly, have you ever noticed the first thing that a kid does when they fall and scrape their knee?

P: Mum!

M: They go running to mum for a hug and mum always, sorry dad’s out there, mum’s always give the best hugs.

P: Miranda did that one when I let her off the swing.

M: Snort, Chloe?

P: Chloe, I don’t know a child dropped off the swing and I was in trouble, laugh.

M: A child let go of the swing, put her arms out for you to catch.

P: At the back end of the swing! It wasn’t my fault, I was waiting at the other end!

M & P: Laughter!

P: This way Chloe, this way!

M: So anyway, when Chloe fell off the swing, she went running to mum for cuddle for a hug.

P: She did, yeah.

M: And that is because from an early age, there is definitely a mother child bond don’t get me wrong, but touch alleviates pain. It also relaxes us and calms us. So I know there’s a lot of support dogs out there who are trained to put their bodies on people who are about to seize or about to fit.

P: Yes.

M: And that touch is calming.

P: Soothing.

M: Yes, it also is really good for the immune system. So accelerates your body’s self-healing and helps kids with healthy development as well.

P: That’s a big one, yeah. Societal development and our behavioural development is so –

M: Cognitive [development].

P: – is so dependent on touch. Yeah, cognitive as well.

M: We’ll come back to that one.

P: That’s a big one, yeah.

M: And the big thing for the last year, if we’re talking about psychological health, is that touch helps to alleviate anxiety, depression and many psychological issues, including things like eating disorders.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: So you wouldn’t necessarily make that connection. But touch is so beneficial from a physical, psychological, emotional, spiritual, you know, every perspective; There are studies, and there is research on the benefits of touch.

P: Yep, definitely.

M: Oh, and there’s one more, touch makes your sex life better.

P: Ooh, well I can’t imagine not touching in that instance.

M: Well, I think the problem is we don’t touch for long enough in the right ways.

P: Aahh.

M: So we’ll get to some studies in a second. I know we’re both itching to get to the research!

P & M: Laugh.

P: Now I’m getting images of the wedding sheet with embroidery around a little hole.

M & P: Laughter!

P: You can have sex but not allowed to touch.

M & P: Laugh.

M: I think more to the point, we, we’re a society now where everything’s hard and fast and sex has become that as well, for a lot of people in a lot of situations.

P: Mmm. Hug your lover people! Hold them.

M: Before and after.

P: After is really important.

M: Yeah, absolutely.

P: I could have offered a personal anecdote there, but I will refrain.

M & P: Laughter!

P: Moving right along. Let’s look at the research. So the first research that came about in the 1960’s was by a doctor called Harry Harlow, and he did a lot of research on monkeys and primates with touch.

M: So, this is a horrible study before we put a lot of ethics and morals into how we organise our studies. But essentially, monkeys were separated from their mothers early on after they were born and then tracked over time, and those monkeys compared to the control group that had the touch of their mother’s fared poorly in nearly every possible measure, so they often were found you know, like you see with animals that are stuck in zoos. They were found curled up in corners, rocking back and forth.

P: Yep.

M: Their physical development was stifled and also their cognitive development, so they were just not developing in all of the measures that you want a baby [to develop].

P: What I found interesting about this research was that the monkeys that weren’t in the controlled [i.e., Touch deprived] group were more adventurous. So my readings said that the monkeys that were given the touch were more willing to go out and explore and then would run back to the maternal figure. They were more adventurous because there are more adventurous, they did develop physically. There was even talk that the brain development was different in the control group. That the size of the brain was larger in the group that were actually exposed to touch.

M: Absolutely, and I think they found something very similar with the children in Romania.

P: This is a huge one. This is something that we both came across independently during the communist regime in the 19… I’m going a seventies and eighties in Romania a lot of horrible things happened and there was a real increase in children in orphanages. And in the overthrow of the communist regime in 1989 researchers, went back into Romania and met with these victims of the orphanages who suffered unbelievable hardship and rejection and really sort of being like being in a cell, basically.

M: Well, kind of. A lot of them were left in cribs, but so let’s paint the picture. They were given all their basic needs, they had air, water, food, friendship, others around them, they were just too numerous. So there were 150,000 of these kids across the country whose parents had passed for horrible unspeakable reasons.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: And these kids just didn’t get enough hugs and cuddles from their carers because there were too many of them. So I think it’s really interesting, when you look at these poor kids, that they had all their basic needs met and you don’t see on any pyramid; You know, Maslow’s pyramid wasn’t talking about touch as a basic need, but this really shows that if you want to be a functioning adult and grow into a functioning person who can look after themselves and contribute in society. Touch should be on that list.

P: Absolutely, yeah.

M: Because that was really the only thing they were missing in their basic needs.

P: I might have come across some different interpretations of that. I think I maybe come across more of the institutionalised information that came out through that. So from my perspective.

P: The reading that I did, Mary Carlson and Felton Earls were two people that I referenced that went over and spoke to these Children and these sufferers and at the ripe old age of thirty, these people were socially withdrawn, they were mute, inept, and the biggest thing was displaying bizarre, atypical movement patterns and violent behaviour.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: You were talking before about the movement patterns of the monkeys and so forth, and this was a shocking wake up as to the what happens when we don’t touch that people develop physical characteristics –

M: Yep.

P: – Such as ticks and shaking and all those restrictive movements that can render someone incapacitated just from not being touched.

M: Yep and again I think we’re saying the same thing.

P: Oh, yeah, yeah.

M: It’s touch right, and they were shown to develop autistic characteristics.

P: Mmm, very much so.

M: And again, a lot of people with autism can have those ticks.

P: Yep.

M: Anyway, trying to make sure that I’m not being offensive in any way.

P & M: Laughter.

M: And using the right language here.

Other studies that I find justice fascinating. So the one that really kicked off a lot of this and that I love is this story about a NICU, so the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit, at a hospital. There were two different NICU’s in this hospital and they found that in one of them the premature babies were putting on more weight and growing faster. And for a premature baby, that’s a difference between life and death, right? And so one doctor decided to go spy on the NICU that was doing well.

P: This is hilarious.

M: Laugh.

P: So does the Doctor go ‘Something’s up there, I’m going to sit in here and wait.

M & P: Laughter.

P: What did he except to see? Alien beings coming in? Laugh!

M: Well, that was the problem. They couldn’t work it out. So these babies were being fed the same formula.

P: So, everything was the same between the two of them.

M: They were being cared for the same, exactly the same and they couldn’t work out why there was such a big difference. And it wasn’t a small insignificant difference, it was It was notable.

P: So what did he find?

M: Anyway, so he was there one night. You know, I picture him sort of squatting in the corner.

P: Laugh!

M: I’ve got this mental image.

P: [Whispers] Shh. You can’t see me, I’m not here.

M: Exactly, laugh. And a nurse came in and kind of had a look around and saw the coast was clear and picked up one of the babies and started just gently stroking the baby and kind of cuddling with the baby. And then she put that one down. She went to the next one.

P: I love it.

M: And so this was a nurse that I was allowed to be there, right?

P: Mmm hmm.

M: But the thinking before that period was that you had to keep them in sterile environments in order for them to survive. Right? And what they found was that the babies who were held and stroked gently were found to put on about 47% more weight than those who weren’t.

P: Wow, that’s amazing.

M: And more than that, months later they were found to be significantly more cognitively progressed.

P: Yeah. Yeah. This is the thing that keeps coming back with a lot of studies. Is our brains develop and our curiousness and our intellect develops because of the stimulation of touch.

M: Yes, Absolutely. And coming back to why we do this study, this podcast.

P: Mmm.

M: It makes you happier.

P: Yep.

M: Touch, regular touch throughout your day makes you happier. So there’s a psychologist, Jane Clipman, who asked her students to hug five times a day.

P: Ha! This is really confronting. People don’t like hugging, laugh.

M: A lot of people don’t, even pre Covid.

P: Yeah.

M: Some people, I know a person who says to me, I’m just not a hugger.

P: Mmm.

M: They cringe at being hugged by people.

P: Mmm, very much.

M: So, the hug had to be non-sexual,

P: Yep.

M: frontal,

P: Yep.

M: all face to face and with two hands. So you couldn’t do like the bro…

P: The pat on the back, the chest bump, laugh.

M: And so, she had one group of students go hug five times a day and another control group, and they found that the huggers were significantly happier a month later.

P: It works. Hugs are memorable.

M: Definitely.

P: Tammy Hunyadi, if you’re listening, I still remember that.

M & P: Laughter.

P: Well, it was our first lesson we learnt in massage class. Our very first lesson. We all stood up in a circle and we had to hug the person who was in front of us and behind us and apparently Tammy was standing behind me, and she said ‘all I saw was this bald head.’ And then this man turned around and all of a sudden I was enveloped by these arms and my face was against his chest. I didn’t even see his face.

M: Laugh.

P: And that was me apparently. She always tells that story and she says it was one of the fondest memories of our friendship.

M: Awwweee.

P: It was just this massive, enveloping of care.

M: Lovely, love it. Actually, there’s a thing that I read about a few weeks ago. I really in preparing for this episode should look this up, a few weeks ago? I mean, a few years ago. There’s places that you can go to hug.

P: Hug therapy, yes.

M: Yeah, you go hug complete strangers.

P: Yep, yep. It’s a thing and I think it’s in the Nordic countries. Dare I say it again? Good old Norwegians.

M: Yeah, Okay.

P: There’s a very famous book that was brought out it was called the Midas Touch in 1984 and that goes on touching a more basic level. It says that diners who were patted on the arm by their server were more inclined to tip more generously and that people in care homes will eat more after physical contact.

M: Mmm.

P: So that’s on a lesser level of what touch can do. But it doesn’t have to be an all-enveloping hug. It could be a slight interaction. Students who were given a friendly pat by their teachers, with three times more likely to speak up in class.

M: I think there’s a safety to a pat.

P: Mmm. There’s a reassurance, I think.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: But it does stimulate neurochemicals and get things going in the brain. And so that comes back to that behavioural development that is so important. And this all comes back from that work that Harry Harlow did in the 1960’s. It’s still informing us today.

M: Yep.

P: So how do we touch in Covid?

M: Well…

P: This is a hard one. How do you, how do you engage with touch in a Covid world.

M: I think for anyone who’s within a household, it’s a no brainer.

P: Hmm.

M: What we’re really talking about is people who have roommates that aren’t in the habit of touching.

P: Mmm.

M: Not immediate family that they live with or people who live by themselves. And before Covid even, there was the World Health Organisation was talking about loneliness as the new epidemic, right?

P: Mmm.

M: And a lot more people now can afford to live by themselves. Before, it was really cost prohibitive.

P: Yep.

M: Which is a lot of the time where people married, laugh.

P: Ha, interesting.

M: We’re going to unpack that [later].

P: Laugh.

M: But for the first time in human society. We expect to be able to buy a house and not necessarily as part of a couple. A lot of people are buying houses and living in them by themselves.

P: Yep.

M: And also on the flip side, older ages, they’re living by themselves a lot longer, and as a result, a lot of people, particularly in Covid, It’s now even worse. A lot of people are lonely.

P: Yeah, they’re not getting any touch.

M: And a big part of that, is there not hugging, touching anyone. Because if you are lonely you might see your postman and your garbageman from your window. You might wave, maybe.

P: Hmm.

M: You’re not going to hug the person behind the counter at Coles.

P: Nope.

M: Laugh.

P: Not through that Perspex glass.

M & P: Laughter!”

M: Not anymore!

P: You can’t get near ‘em Damnit! Laugh, ‘I love you, you just gave me 30% off!’

M & P: Laughter!”

P: [Funny voice] ‘I know that guy, he sold us our furniture.’ That’s a musical quote.

M: Laugh, yep. So hugging may not be the right answer, especially during Covid.

P: But it doesn’t have to be a hug this is the thing. It needs to be some sort of physical interaction.

M: So my recommendation is massage.

P: Oh, Glad you said that, not me.

M & P: Laughter!”

P: It is interesting, though, that I’ve found this generally, not only during Covid, during times of crisis; So during the GFC that happened a few years back and in times of things like the bushfires and stuff like that, people seek out comfort and they seek out health. So, I would get people turning up to my clinic going ‘I don’t know why I’m here, I just want a treatment, I just want to feel nice for an hour.’ I’m like [internal monologue] ‘why are you seeing me, you shouldn’t be seeing me?’

M: Laugh. You fix people!

P: Laugh. They want that interaction, they want that touch. It’s very important for people because of all the sensory information that comes through. It does make you feel, for want of a better word, more loved, more secure. And that comes back to our maternal connections.

M: Uh huh.

P: When we first start out, we need to be touched by our parents. When we first come out of the out of the channels and screaming and yelling, there needs to be a nurturing there otherwise we don’t develop as well, and we don’t have all those physical attributes that we should.

M: Yep, so to be really clear, any consensual touch can make a difference.

P: Very much.

M: Consensual is important, and Covid safe touch is what we’re advocating for. If you can if you’ve got people in your household that you can try the five hugs a day exercise with.

P: I like that idea.

M: I really recommend.

P: People will struggle with that, yeah.

P: Five hugs with the person you love. It’s not that hard to do, but you’ve got to put some time and effort into it. And if you are living by yourself and can get out to someone who can… even get your nails done, or someone who, you know that’s holding hands for an hour while they do your nails a lot of the time; There’s that, there’s massage.

P: Yep.

M: Find ways to get some more touch into your day. It might help to alleviate a lot of the stress and anxiety that’s going on.

P: It will help, it will help.

M: And with the loneliness due to Covid. Hmm. All right, well, and also it is really important to ask for consent before you go do that.

P: Laugh! Don’t ask! Just launch in there!

M: Laugh.

P: I just go for it and people go ‘oh, ok we’re doing that.’ Laugh

M: Because I do want to say that some cultures and religions or just people might need more gentle touch.

P: Yes.

M: Or are afraid of touch, possibly due to trauma.

P: Very wise words. Ooh Yes. Big one.

M: Yes.

P: Yeah.

M: So consent is good.

P: I know, I just keep forgetting.

M: Laugh. Well, it’s okay with people you already know.

P: Yeah… I still want… I’m just bad like that. I’m sorry to all the people that I’ve hugged without permission, laugh.

M: I just don’t want our listeners going out and hugging people randomly.

P: Laugh!

M: Then get slapped down, laugh!

P: Please don’t slap anyone.

M: Laugh.

P: All right, on that note, we’ll finish up.

[Happy exit music – background]

M: Thanks for joining us today if you want to hear more please remember to subscribe and like this podcast and remember you can find us at www.marieskelton.com, where you can also send in questions or propose a topic.

P: And if you like our little show we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.

M: Until next time.

M & P: Choose happiness.

[Exit music fadeout]

Please note that I get a small commission if you buy something from my site. Your support helps to keep this site going, at no additional cost to you. Thanks!

So Long 2020 (E48)

by

Happiness for Cynics podcast

This week Marie and Pete say so long to 2020 – From the crappiness of the year to how positive psychology interventions changed it. 

Transcript

M: You’re listening to podcast Happiness for Cynics. I’m Marie Skelton, a writer and speaker on change and resilience.

P: And I’m Peter Furness, a Flagrant Interpretative Dance Enthusiast, a Storyteller of Movement and Hygge Loving Frozen Fan. Each week we will bring to you the latest news and research in the world of positive psychology, otherwise known as happiness.

M: So if you’re ready to say F[Beep] off to 2020.

P: [Gasp] Marie, you can’t say that, [Laugh!]

M: Then this is the place to be!

P: [Laugh!] And to take us one step further on our happiness journey, today’s episode is all about the year that was 2020.

[Happy Intro Music]

P: So are we telling 2020 to Beep off?

M: Well, here’s the thing. I think it really depends on how much control you’ve had over your emotions and your happiness levels this year.

P: I think 2020 has been the year of testing.

M: Absolutely. And, oh I can’t say this without feeling this horrible feeling of umm… arrogance.

P: Oh.

M: But 2020 tested me, and I feel like a passed.

P: Well done, well done, you get a gold star.

M: I really do.

P: He, he.

M: So three years ago, I have a really bad accident overseas. I came off a motorbike and tumble down a mountain, and I nearly died, and it really kick started me on this journey of self-discovery and really questioning what was important in life. And then 2020 happened and we launched our podcast in the middle of a global Pandemic.

P: At the beginning really. Wasn’t it? It was kind of right at the start of it.

M: Absolutely. Well, we were recording from November [2019] through till March [2020] and then launched on the 20 of March.

P: Yeah, we did.

M: Which was International Happiness Day.

P: It was, yes.

M: And that was really when –

P: Everyone was in lockdown. [Laugh]

M: Shit went…

P: South. [Laugh]

M: Shit hit the fan, lets be really honest.

P: Yes, very true.

M: 2020 just went downhill from there.

P: It’s given us a bit of a kick in the pants, hasn’t it?

M: Absolutely. And so all of these positive psychology research that we’ve been doing and behavioural psychology.

P: And training, behavioural training.

M: All that stuff that we’ve been preaching this whole year, we’ve really had to put to the test in our own lives haven’t we?

P: Yes, I agree completely. We’ve had to sort of look back on it. So we’re looking back on it in this final podcast for 2020, before we go on a very short break. What have we done in 2020? How good have we been with our positive psychology? And what have we found? What have we discovered?

M: You’re a really good gardener.

P: [Laugh!] My herb garden is fabulous.

M: [Laugh!]

P: Even through the 40 degree [Celsius] (104 Fahrenheit) weekend last weekend, it still bounced back, thank goodness. [Laugh]

M: My garden died.

P: [Laugh!]

M: Withered and died. Thank you Australian summer.

P: But you have Birds?

M: Yeah, I do.

P: In your bird feeder.

M: I go buy bird food and feed them.

P: [Laughter!]

M: And they come to my garden. Yes, it is true.

P: Oh, that is so country.

[Laughter]

P: Right, so how have we gone this year?

M: Let’s score this. So I on a scale of one to ten how has your year been from a happiness level?

P: On a happiness level, I would actually have to say that, oddly enough, through doing the podcast and through looking at all the information that we’ve been disseminating and preaching and researching.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: Because, as you know, one of the best ways to become a better… to put in a sports reference, the best way to become a better player is to become a coach.

M: Yes.

P: So to actually espousing and talking about happiness and telling people “well, you should do this!” You’ve got to look at your own [situation] and go ‘oh, I should do that too.’

[Laughter]

P: So I would say 2020 has actually been a very positive year for me.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: I’m getting a sense of this a lot through my clients as well. 2020 has allowed us to all go back to the drawing board and define what is truly valuable to us.

M: What’s meaningful in life.

P: Very much. It’s definitely one of those moments, I think. We’ve all been pushed to the limits a little bit with our patience, with our understanding with our compassion with our fear, our security, our understanding.

M: Our uncertainty.

P: Yeah, all that sort of stuff and in those moments, That is when you go back to your root values and your core values and go, ‘Ok, well what’s truly important to me? Is it important that I make that deadline with work? Or is it important that I talk to my husband every night and have a nice conversation and ensure a good meal?

M: And ensure a good meal? How very 1950’s of you.

P: Aaacchh.

M: [Laugh!]

P: I’m a domestic housewife waiting to happen I swear.

[Laughter]

P: Give me a millionaire and I will have your drink and your slippers ready for you when you walk in the door. I’ll have dinner and I will massage you. I’m a domestic goddess waiting to happen. I’m so good for it. [Laugh]

M: You are. But would that provide you with meaning and purpose in your life? Because that is the larger question.

P: Oddly enough, I think there is a certain… Yes, I actually could answer yes to that there would be a certain joy there would be a certain fulfilment in being that role.

M: I think that is the dichotomy of feminism. That a lot of women do enjoy looking after other people and caring for other people. Anyway, so I think that there, that is a dichotomy of feminism, that the issue that feminism has raised with so many women is that they want to be strong and independent, have choice and they want to choose to look after their husbands sometimes to look after kids and raise kids and do a good job raising Children and I think it’s taken us a while to get over that fight, to have equality in the workplace and all the rest of it.

But some people get real purpose and meaning in their lives.

P: Absolutely.

M: From looking after others and from mentoring and coaching and raising good children.

P: Well, this comes from, it comes down to mindfulness. It’s the immediacy of the response of the action. So, if my partner walks in the door, and I have prepared a beautiful meal and the table is set. There’s a glass of wine waiting for him as he walks in the door. Then I’m taking care of him. But I’m also nurturing the space, and I’m nurturing our relationship. I’m nurturing myself within that. I’m pretty proud of that. And that’s, that’s a meaning that’s a purple -purpose. Purplefulness? That’s not a word? [Laugh]

M: Purplefulness.

P: [Laugh] Purposefulness? I’m trying to I don’t know… I’m digging here.

M: That’s purposeful?

P: Yeah, I’ll go there. That’ll do.

M: I forget what we were talking about.

P: [Laugh]

M: It gives you purpose and meaning in your life.

P: Yes.

M: Look, and I think again, back to your point with the mindfulness, it is just about knowing yourself well enough to know that cooking brings you pleasure. Now, the second you’re cooking.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: Day in, day out and it becomes a chore and a job, you might need a break from that. To rediscover your joy from cooking.

P: Remove it for a while.

M: And your mindfulness and your self-awareness and self-reflection will help you to rediscover that. But very, very quickly things can become monotonous, boring.

P: Day to day, daily chores, yeah.

M: Yeah.

P: Where you just want to go and order Thai takeout.

M: [Whispers] What’s wrong with that?

P: [Laugh] Well we all have those days. So if we take that to a larger context.

M: We have a lot of those days…

P: [Laugh] But if we take that into the wider context, there are the daily activities that we, the daily grind that we have to get through.

M: Yep.

P: Part of what we talk about here on the podcast, in terms of mindfulness and all that positive psychology around being present, understanding your Ikigai, all that sort of stuff that we have referenced over the last year. If you can come to a point where that becomes special and you can identify those moments, there’s an amazing amount of joy that comes with that. So, when I’m standing in the kitchen with my kitchen knives, which I recently lost, and I will get them back [laugh], but that brings joy and being able to go ‘I’m cooking for myself, and I cooked a really give meal’ that’s a joyful experience and it makes you feel nurtured and good about yourself, and that leads to good happiness.

M: So I think the lesson for me has been that this podcast, blog and my site has really made sure that I focused on being mindful.

P: Mmm.

M: About the good things and the things that I enjoy doing.

P: Yep.

M: And that I have kept my happiness in the back of my mind all year.

P: Mmm.

M: And it has helped me to ensure that I’m prioritising and practising positive psychology activities.

P: Oh, I can’t agree more with that.

M: That have helped me to weather 2020 in a way that I feel guilty about, almost. I feel that-

P: -Because you’ve succeeded?

M: Yes, so many people have struggled in 2020.

P: Oh, yes. Yes.

M: And I feel, I feel bad that I haven’t.

P: I think the interesting thing for me is every week Marie and I try to get together and we do our little recordings. And every now and then we might not have a week where we do it and we’ll have to catch up. For me it’s the regularity of catching up with you and talking about this stuff. It filters into my daily life. It filters into my actions. So when you’re sitting there and saying “Oh, yes. Everybody go out and keep a gratitude wall.”

‘Oh hang on, where’s my gratitude wall? do I have one? I don’t really have one, maybe I should go and put one up!’

M: Yes.

P: So it makes you more aware and it brings that idea of doing the regular activities into my consciousness.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: So our commitment to meeting up every week, even when you were in Tamworth and I was in Sydney.

M: And your internet was shit.

P: Oh yeah, my internet is crap.

M: I apologise to everyone for the horrible sound, it was all Pete’s fault, just so we’re clear.

P: [Laugh] [Whispers] It was Marie’s fault.

M: [Laugh]

P: But getting back to the point.

M: What were we talking about?

P: [Laugh] Commitment of the regular interaction and the regular investment of, let’s say, 50 minutes every week about us talking about happiness and all that it entails, and all the little tasks that you have to do it filters into your awareness. And that’s enough to actually create a good response and a happier existence.

M: And I think that was the whole premise of our book, right?

P: Yes.

M: So if you’re not going to church, listen to our podcast, meet up with a friend and talk about this stuff.

P: Make it regular.

M: Journal, blog, whatever it is that makes it a regular occurrence in your life. Again, I feel guilty and I feel arrogant for saying this, but I think that it is 100% the reason why I’ve weathered a global pandemic, a move to Tamworth, separation from my friends, a job change all of that stuff like it was just another day.

P: He, he. It didn’t impact you as much as maybe it would have, maybe three years ago?

M: Absolutely. Before the accident, I was living in the rat race. I was succeeding by all external measures.

P: All the external measures of what you were measuring success by.

M: But I was definitely not living my best life.

P: Mmm.

M: Success and happiness are two very different things.

P: Very much. And I also want a reference one of the emails that we received from a listener who wrote into us saying she was completely effusive in her praise, which is always so lovely to hear. But the most warming thing was that she said that she wanted to do something similar.

M: Yes.

P: So she was going to commit to her own podcast or her own publishing of information around happiness. And that, I think is possibly one of the biggest wins you get.

M: Yes, that is why we’re here!

P: Yes and it makes a difference when you reach one person. And it’s the pass on effect, that one person goes out and then passes it on to 100 other people.

M: Yep.

P: So that filtering through creates a web, it creates an interconnectedness in exactly the same way that Covid reacts!

M: Oh! It’s viral, viral!

P: Viral! But we could do the same thing with happiness.

M: [Laugh]

P: We can actually create those good feelings, one person goes out and reaches 10 other people and those 10 other people go out and reach another 10 people, which becomes 100. And I really do believe that happiness works in that way. And all the good things that we’ve talked about in terms of being generous and gratitude and understanding and passion. I think it really infiltrates into other people in your lives. Not just yourself.

M: I think so too. I’ve brought my sister along on this journey.

P: Oh, the gorgeous Lealea. She has, her love language is touch, I love it.

M: [Laugh]

P: “I just need to hug you because my love language is touch too! Yay!”

M: [Laugh] It’s so funny because the amount people who have come up to me and they’re like, “I need to meet Pete, my love language is touch too.”

P: [Laugh!]

M: But love language has been a really popular episode.

P: Oh, really?

M: Yeah.

P: [Laugh] Considering I didn’t really know what love languages were before we did it.

[Laughter]

P: And that, in itself is a good one. It’s one of the benefits for me from doing this podcast. I’ve learned a lot of the terminology and the science behind stuff, and I’ve actually-

M: -You sound quite proud.

P: Yes. Oh stop it, I know you’re going to get proud about this.

M: I’m an ex-journo, I’m like ‘where’s that quote?’

P: [Laugh]

M: ‘Give me the quote and the proof.’ See, I went into journalism with this ideology that it was this beautiful profession, where you serve the people and you report the truth.

P: [Laugh]

M: And then I came out to the real world and there’s things like the daily Mail.

P: Channel Nine.

M: Breitbart.

P: [Laugh]

M: Let’s be really honest, all of the craziness that’s going on in the world and I had believed in unbiased journalism.

P: [Laugh]

M: And so, when we came to this podcast, it was about ‘show me the proof? Show me that this stuff is real?’

P: Yep.

M: And not only have I found so much research in this area. But, my own personal experience just tells me that this stuff is real. It is, it is my church.

P: Mmm.

M: It has become my faith and something that I believe so wholeheartedly in. And I don’t want to come across to others as someone who is preaching or someone who is arrogant in their beliefs and believes that everyone else should [believe them].

P: Yeah.

M: But I’m so torn. Because it has had such a positive impact in my life and influence in my life, on my marriage, on my friends on my family that I just wish I could bring everyone along with me. I feel like I am that cult leader –

P: [Laugh]

M: – about to tell everyone to drink the Kool-Aid.

P: [Laugh]

M: I feel crazy, but it has had that strong an impact on my life and I just want to share that with others.

P: When you’re getting the positive reinforcement from something naturally you do want to share it and you get passionate about it and you want to take people on the same journey. And I will share a personal story here of my adopted grandma, my adopted Nan, Nan McSweeney. She was 102 to when she died. She was the last living person to have met Mother Mary MacKillop. So when the beatification of Mother Mary MacKillop was happening, she was interviewed.

M: And for our non-Australian listeners, who is Mother Mary MacKillop?

P: Mother Mary MacKillop was an Australian nun who was working in Melbourne primarily, but also worked around the coastal regions of the East Coast. She was beatified in 1998?

M: 99?

[Mother Mary MacKillop was beatified in 1995]

P: She was made a saint. She is the Australian saint and that was done by the Catholic Church and my adopted Nan, Nan McSweeney, she was interviewed for that beatification and involved in that process of giving the evidence towards her being declared a Saint at the Church.

M: Sainthood.

P: Yeah. The point of the storey is that Nan was always so secure in her faith and she would stand there and wave you off with a handkerchief when you left for the evening and all these lovely old world qualities.

M: My Nana still does that.

P: It’s such a beautiful thing.

M: She’ll stand in the drive way and wave ‘til she can’t see you anymore.

P: Yeah. It’s like watching the plane take off. My dad would never leave when they would board he would watch the plane go.

M: We’re so fickle, aren’t we?

P: [Laugh]

M: Gen X, Y, Millenials.

P: [Laugh]

M: Well, anyway. So continue.

P: Well… The idea is that faith and believing in something, it means that you want to share it now. Now Nan never pushed her beliefs upon me, but I always felt included. So when she would come up and give me the blessing of the cross in holy water on my forehead, it was never religious. It was just Nan being who she was and it was an expression of love for her. And I, I think that with all this stuff that we do the happiness podcast and we are very exuberant about people coming on this journey with us. It is, ‘I’ve got this great deal you’ve got to buy in come on, come on, come on.’ It’s the carny thing!

[Laughter]

P: It’s getting into my ancestral roots. My father was a carny.

M: Sorry, I have to share.

P: [Laugh]

M: Pete is a descendant of carny’s.

P: My whole family. [Laugh]

M: I don’t know how I missed this? My entire life! I feel like there’s this major revelation that has just come forth.

P: [Laughter]

M: Alright, so 2020. Let’s circle all the way back, you can bring yourself back.

P: ‘Come back, come back.’ [Laugh]

M: Is it that.. oh I’ve got Titanic flashbacks going on right now. Anyway, [whispers] “Don’t go Jack.”

P: [Laugh] [whispers] “Don’t leave me.”

M: So we are almost at time and I started this episode by asking you on a scale of 1 to 10. What do you think your happiness levels of been in 2020?

P: I would say that… My instant reaction is like 8, 9,10. That’s my instant reaction of 2020 which again, I’m with you, I feel guilty for saying that. 2020 has been a challenge but I’ve done really well, I’m coming out of it going ‘Yay, I’ve managed it.’

M: Pick a number?

P: I’m going to go with nine. Yeah, going with nine. And that’s a great thing. And I think that it is because when shit happens, you can express it and you could be cranky. And you can throw screwdrivers down the hallway whilst your face down in a puddle of water because your washing machine has stuffed up!

M: You’ve got real issues with washing machines…

P: I have issues with technology.

M: Again, another time.

P: Yeah, yeah. But on the flip side of that, you can turn it around instantly and go right ‘what’s important going bang, bang, bang, bang.’ I’m clicking again, I do that when I’m excited.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And because of the work that we do here and because of the items and the factors that we highlight. It comes back to mindfulness, it comes back to passion, it comes back to what is relative. This has been an education.

M: Yep. So we are over time, yet again.

P: [Laugh] We always do.

M: We say this every time.

P: [Laugh]

M: I would say from 1 to 10, my happiness levels have been a ten this year.

P: Wow! Straight 10. Well done.

M: Yep, I’ve never had such a fulfilling, satisfying, happy year.

P: I think I’m going to cry.

M: Aww.

As I have this year. And it was in the middle of a global pandemic and a whole lot of change and turmoil, uncertainty, volatility. All of that’s been going on and I have been able to cope and to feel the negative impacts of that and to resolve myself to move forward with all of that and do it with a level of, dare I say, grace that I never had before-

P: Interesting.

M: – and I can only credit that to all the conversations we’ve had, the research I’ve been doing in the blogging, all of that which, blogging is pretty much in other way saying journaling.

P: It is, definitely and it’s a commitment.

M: Absolutely.

P: It’s hard to go sometimes.

M: Every single week.

P: It’s really hard to sit down and write another Blog every week.

M: Yep.

P: But when do it. You come up with this good stuff.

M: Absolutely and it’s the self-reflection and it has it has changed my life.

P: And that is the best advertisement that we could possibly finish this on. This stuff is real people, buy in!

[Laughter]

P: It’s so good!

M: For everyone out there, I wish you a joyous and happy holidays and New Year. And I have to say if 2020 has been bad year for you. It can only go up from here.

P: It can, and we’ll go up together.

M: Absolutely.

P: [Laugh]

M: Happy Christmas, Happy Hanukkah (if we haven’t missed it) and have a happy New Year to everyone.

P: Absolutely.

M: And we’ll see you in 2021.

P: Thank you all for coming on this lovely journey with us, we really appreciate it.

M: All right. Well, thank you for joining us specifically today. If you do want to hear more, please remember to subscribe and like this podcast. And remember, you can find us at www.marieskelton.com.

P: And Please let us know if we are fabulous, because we are-

M: [Laugh]

P: – by leaving us a review.

M: Yes we would be grateful to know that more than my sister listens to this podcast.

P: [Laugh] Until next time.

M: Choose happiness.

[Happy Exit Music]

P: Yay!

Related content: Read Happiness for Cynics article The Change Storm, listen to our Podcast Self-Care is Church for Non-Believers Pt 2 (E38)