Happiness for Cynics podcast
This week, Marie and Pete talk about the powerful new strategy for wish fulfilment, devised by a German-American Psychologist, called WOOP.
Show notes
WOOP – Dr Gabriele Oettingen
Transcript
[Happy intro music -background]
M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.
M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.
P: Plus, sometimes I think we’re kind of funny.
P: Howdy. Howdy. Howdy.
M: Hi, hi!
P: Hi.
M: I’ve never said “hi, hi!” in my life. Why is that becoming my thing.
P & M: Laugh.
M: [Singing] Hi ho, hi ho,
P: Laughter! We’ve gone Disney, laugh.
M: [Singing] it’s off to work we go.
P: Laugh.
M: Today we’re talking about the power of WOOP-ing
P: Whoop, whoop! What is WOOP-ing?
M: Whoop, whoop! Laugh.
P: I don’t know anything about this one. So, this is all Marie, laugh.
M: All right, so today we’re talking about German American psychologist Gabrielee Oettingen’s strategy for wish or goal fulfilment. And it’s called WOOP. And the reason we’re talking about wish or goal fulfilment is that we understand that you’ve joined our show to talk about happiness.
P: Laugh.
M: And so, you have a want or a need to be happy or happier and that maybe there’s some change that needs to happen. And in order for you to make those changes in your life to perhaps find time to bring meditation into your weekly habits or to do more exercise or to start a journaling practise.
P: Ok.
M: Or gratitude practise, all of the many things to actually change is hard. It really is hard.
P: Laugh.
M: And as we’ve mentioned before, I nearly died. And that is the only reason I have flipped from being such a cynic for this stuff to buying in wholeheartedly. Right?
P: Mmm.
M: And you shouldn’t have to die –
P: Except for meditating, laugh.
M: Except for meditation, yeah.
P: Laugh.
M: It’s a step too far.
P: Laugh.
M: Shh. However, you shouldn’t have to die or have to have a huge –
P: Life changing moment, yeah.
M: – traumatic experience in order to make change. So, this is us coming in and trying to give you the tools to help you make change, to be happier in your life.
P: So this is the, getting down and working people.
M: Doing the hard yards.
P: Yeah, he he he. Is this where we launch into: Hi ho, Hi ho! It’s off to work, we go!
M: [Singing] Hi ho, Hi ho, it’s off to work, we go!
P: Laugh! You can’t see, but Marie is doing some very deep shoulder action. Laughter!
M: Got my pickaxe over my shoulder.
P: Laugh!
M: So, WOOP. W-O-O-P.
P: Mmm hmm.
M: Is yet another acronym that we’re throwing your way.
P: Laugh.
M: It is a motivational strategy, so it uses visualisation. Don’t hang up on us now.
P: Laugh.
M: Stick with us.
P: We just lost all the cynics, “visualisation? I’m out of here, bye!” Laugh!
M: Here’s the thing for all you cynics. Don’t knock it till you try it, is what I’m going to say.
P: Ooh! Laugh.
M: So many years I knocked it, but I didn’t really try it.
P: So many times, laugh!
M: Mmm hmm. So, WOOP is a motivational strategy.
P: Mmm hmm.
M: Which uses visualisation techniques to help people develop good habits and break out of harmful ones.
P: Breaking habits is hard for anyone. And who doesn’t make a New Year’s resolution and go yes, this year I’m going to do this. And what a lot of people miss is they miss the step of breaking the bad habit and investing in a new habit. That’s hard, Yaka.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: It’s not easy. And so, this is a straight lift of a technique that you can apply to try and make that new habit.
M: Yeah, and to make it stick. And we’ve talked about neural pathways before. When you’re creating new habits, you’re also concurrently breaking other habits, whether they’re not necessarily bad habits.
P: Yep.
M: But you’re replacing one way of doing things with another way of doing things, and it takes time to build that neural pathway. So this is a great technique that you can use to help build that. And, for instance, when I started doing gratitude as a daily practise, I would forget all the time.
P & M: Laugh!
M: It just wasn’t something that was part of my routine. And now it is.
P: Mmm.
M: And now to the point that my husband goes, “You haven’t done the gratitude yet.” Laugh.
P: Oh, wow! Even Francis is buying.
M: I know! He is, laugh.
P: Wow! Nice.
M: Laugh. Okay, so this WOOP or WOOP-ing technique or motivational strategy is developed by someone that we just need to dedicate just a minute to because Pete and I both found this kind of cool.
P: Laugh!
M: So, she is a German American psychologist, and her name is Gabriele Oettingen. She’s a professor of psychology at New York University and the University of Hamburg, And…
P: She’s a princess!
M: A German Princess! How cool is that?
P: A German Princess, I said before, I want to play that part of when I walk into my next high society class/ social function.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: [Upper-class refined voice] “I’m a professor of psychology, and I’m a Princess.”
M: Mmm hmm. A German Princess, thank you very much.
P: Laugh!
M: So I’m going to dust off my high school German.
P: Ooh.
M: And try and read you her full name. So, it is Princess Gabriele zu Oettingen-Oettingen and Oettingen-Spielberg.
P: Why do they have so many names?
M: I think, many cultures unlike ours, keep a hold of the previous generations last name and hyphenate. It looks like that’s probably what they’ve done here.
P: Well, she’s… The lineage goes back to 1141, that’s huge.
M: One of the oldest existing families in Bavaria.
P: Yeah, that’s amazing.
M: So, Gabriele’s father was the ninth Prince of Oettingen-Oettingen and Oettingen-Spielberg.
P: Sorry, I’m laughing [Muppet voice] ‘Oettingen-Oettingen hygge.’
M: Hygge, laugh. Different countries, by the way. So, we’ve spent our one minute on the lovely Princess and Dr Gabriele zu Oettingen-Oettingen and Oettingen-Spielberg.
P: Laugh.
M: And now let’s get into WOOP. So, so this is, and this sounds really kind of cool and a bit sexual.
P: Laugh!
M: It is a fantasy realisation theory.
P: Oh. Well you got me at fantasy.
M: What we mean by that is wish realisation theory.
P: Oh, yeah. Got it.
M: Now there’s nothing, there’s nothing sexual really about that.
P: No, not at all sexual. I’m all into dragons and you know –
M: – Oh! fantasy.
P: Yeah.
M: Laugh!
P: You know, taking a ring and wandering off to the New Zealand mountains with unicorns and all sorts of mythical creatures.
M: So, what… We’re going to go with Dr Gabriele, So they don’t have to say the whole name every single time.
P: Laugh.
M: What Dr Gabriele has found through her research is that mentally contrasting future and present realities, i.e. what could be with what is, changes cognition, emotion and behaviour.
P: Ooh.
M: So, the cognitive and motivational processes are what is responsible for making WOOP work. So, you go through the process. We talked about how it’s a visualisation technique.
P: Yep.
M: But you go through the steps and you visualise and you do what you need to do, and your brain actually changes along with you. So, this is the first part of putting those new neural pathways into practise.
P: Mmm, I like this. I like this idea.
M: So WOOP involves, in case you couldn’t guess, four steps! Because it’s a four letter acronym!
P: Laugh.
M: And WOOP is about finding a Wish…
P: That’s the W. [Singing] A dream is a wish, your heart makes…
M: Exactly. That was such a throw, Pete.
P: Sorry, I wasn’t thinking. I was like ‘Why did she stop talking?’
M: Laugh! I was like, come on, we’re talking about a wish here.
P & M: Laugh.
M: Okay, So WOOP is about finding Wish, envisioning the Outcome, finding the Obstacles and formulating a Plan. So:
- Wish,
- Outcome,
- Obstacles,
- Plan.
P: WOOP.
M: It’s a type of psychological strategy that is well known and known as MCII or Mental Contrasting with Implementation Intentions.
P: Wow, is that just a fancy way of saying projection?
M: Mmm…
P: I’m sure it’s more complicated…
M: Contrasting with a real delivery or implementation focus.
P: Mmm.
M: Well, what is? What could be? And how do I get there? How do I bridge the gap?
P: Mmm OK.
M: And it is very similar to what a lot of change management professionals do in a corporate setting.
P: It is? Ahh.
M: What is the current state today? What is the future state we want to get to? How do we get from A to B? Yeah. So, WOOP has a website.
P: Laugh, I like that.
M: Yep.
P: Whoop my life!
M: [Singing] Whoop, there it is.
P: Laugh.
M: I had to go there, laugh. And they currently have about 60,000 visits a month on their website and 77,000 WOOP app downloads and a book.
P: Wow!
M: So you can go spend a whole lot of time looking more deeply into all of this, But we’re going to cover at a high level how WOOP works now so that you can maybe start to put in practise off the back of this episode.
P: Laugh.
M: So, firstly, you need to set aside about 15 to 20 minutes by yourself in a quiet place. Next you need to have your goal.
- Your wish, your W in the Woop. So, it needs to be feasible.
M: So, you being a Princess, Pete, not feasible.
P: Oh, Come on! I can walk in heels, laugh.
M: Not feasible, laugh.
P: Oh, boo! Laugh!
M: You being a transvestite, feasible.
P & M: Laugh!
M: Pop those heels on and strut honey strut.
P: Laugh. As I do, laugh.
M: So, you might decide that you want to introduce meditation into your week three times a week.
P: Done!
M: That might be feasible, but it could also be challenging.
P: Yes.
M: Given that you’re working from home in Covid and you have young kids around you.
P: Sure.
M: That could be the challenge, finding time to get away and hide from the Children.
P: Yeah, for sure.
M: So, what you need to do is identify your wish and make sure it’s feasible but challenging and the next you need to, and this is where the visualisation comes in, so sit quietly.
- You’re going to identify and vividly imagine the best Outcomes [wOop].
P: So, projecting that image of me doing meditation in a space in the place and actually seeing it?
M: And not only that, not only that, what that will give you.
P: Ok. Oh, the outcome, of course.
M: Why is meditation the thing that you picked? Why is exercise the thing you picked? Why is gratitude thing that you picked? So, what are you ultimately trying to get to? If it’s exercise, it might be decreasing stress and getting that six pack, right?
P: Laugh.
M: Let’s visualise what it is that you want as an end goal of not only doing the activity but the end result.
P: Ok, yeah.
M: The wish.
P: Got it.
M: Okay, so sit there and spend a good five minutes, it’s only five minutes of your entire life.
P: Laugh.
M: But spend the five minutes actually, visualising that, how will you feel. You know, if you can add any of your senses in there, what will it look like?
How will it smell? Taste? What are the tangible things that you’ll be able to experience if you achieve that wish and the outcomes?
P: Yep.
M: Next,
- You’re going to search for the central Obstacles in you [woOp].
P: Ok.
M: I love that it’s Obstacles In You!
P: Mmm, that’s very telling.
M: That really helps you understand. And we just spent some time talking about control, spheres of control.
P: Yep.
M: What can you control and remove as barriers to your success?
P: Yeah, yep.
M: What is in the way, in you?
P: Mmm and not externalising it. It’s not about the kids running around. It’s like, why are you choosing not to give yourself time? Why are you choosing to dismiss this important aspect of your life? Very important self-reflection.
M: Absolutely. So, after identifying the central or the top few inner obstacles.
P: Mmm hmm.
M: You need to then go back to the imagination and visualisation. So, I want you to visually imagine it occurring. So, asking your husband after he’s been home for half an hour and has decompressed himself. If you can leave the house for 30 minutes.
P: Hmm.
M: And going to your local park and sitting on a bench and doing your meditation for 20 minutes in silence there.
P: Cool. Like it.
M: Or, you know, again we’re going with that example.
P: Laugh.
M: But whatever it is you need, visualise and vividly imagine all the steps that are needed to remove those barriers. Write down those specific actions, those things. So again, just reinforce those things that you need to do to get over the obstacles that you see might be in your way.
P: Ok.
M: And then
- Finally, we’re going to form a Plan [wooP], and the form of this plan is, ‘if I do this obstacle, then I will get closer to the goal.’
M: So, it’s the action to overcome the obstacle. So if I talk to my husband tonight about needing a 30 minute time out in the evenings, after being home all day with the kids.
P: Yep.
M: And if I make sure that I can get to the park before you know eight PM at night, whatever it is that works within your schedule, then I’m going to be able to sit down for 20 minutes and meditate and feel happier and more relaxed and less stressed and able to enjoy the rest of my week with my kids and my family.
P: Mmm, yeah. It’s an interesting, slightly different approach in that it’s actually naming the obstacles.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: And I think this is the big difference about this approach is spending some time looking at not only what you want and what you desire, but what’s in the way. What is going to stop you from achieving this? And Doctor Pulkit Sharma is a contemporary psychologist, and he says that this approach makes sense when we’re simply talking about positive thinking, that in itself cannot accomplish much at the base level of thoughts.
M: Mmm.
P: Whereas Dr Gabriele’s approach tells you to focus on the obstacles, it takes fantasy into action that turns into reality.
M: Absolutely.
P: Very proactive.
M: This is making it real and really breaking it down. So, you know what steps need to be taken.
P: Mmm.
M: And if you’re talking about a wish that is a real departure from your comfort zone or what you’ve done in the past and might be a challenge for other people around you. It might take some time to work through these challenges, but at least you’ve got them there and you understand your path to success.
P: It’s a very practical approach, isn’t it? It’s taking that, when you first started talking about you were talking about fantasy and visualisation… But when you actually look at the technique, this is looking at the hard yards ass of this. Excuse me for swearing, but it’s looking at the tangible things that we need to change. That’s incredibly practical.
M: Yep, absolutely.
P: So, this should suit all out cynics out there and get them on board because it is something they can really focus on.
M: And on the topic of practical, it’s so important, and Dr Gabriele talks about making sure that it’s within your realm of control. So again, being a size six by Christmas is just not going to happen for me.
P: Yep. Okay.
M: Just not going to happen. I’m over 40 now.
P: Laugh.
M: I’ve said it and I have other things going on in my life as well, and I like food, and that’s a challenge.
P: Yep.
M: That’s one of my many challenge.
P: Yeah, laugh.
M: And even if I was to exercise and eat well between now and Christmas, being a size six is highly unlikely without doing some real damage to myself quite frankly.
P: Yeah, and being dangerous.
M: Yeah, and so it’s really out of my control. And aiming for that only does more harm than good.
P: Mmm.
M: She’s really clear to say, don’t use WOOP for wishes that are outside your control.
P: Ok.
M: Or outside your sphere of influence, which we’ve spoken about recently as well. So, the team that has done experiments around this WOOP technique has found that putting future outcomes against the obstacle tweaks are non-conscious brain circuits.
P: Ooh.
M: So, there’s a lot going on around this technique that’s backed by science and how our brains work as well. It’s not just, you know, the next coach, business coach or leadership coach who’s come up with an acronym.
P: Laugh, yeah.
M: There’s real science behind a lot of this stuff. The team said they did a lot of questioning on how mental contrasting works and the research shows that focusing on both the desired future and the obstacle in yourself is helpful to get engaged and to get out of that passivity and hopelessness.
P: Mmm.
M: So, it’s really about, as you said, getting started on making the change rather than just thinking about it.
P: Mmm hmm, yeah.
M: So, focusing on the desired future provides a direction to act, and focusing on the obstacle provides the energy to act.
P: There’s no point going into a battle if you don’t know the opposition. It’s about doing your homework before… I’m thinking Gladiator, walking into an arena and not knowing that there’s going to be three lions coming at you means that you’re not prepared. So, identifying the obstacle.
M: Yeah, but more than that, knowing that there’s three lions and then knowing how to kill each of them.
P: Yeah, exactly.
M: Right?
P: It’s very practical, yeah.
M: Absolutely. Okay, the WOOP technique just to start summarising… You’ve got a few good quotes actually here, Pete, that you wanted to throw in from people who have been using the whoop technique.
P: I talked about Dr Sharma before, and I’ll go back to Dr Gabriele herself, “The obstacles we think most impede us from fulfilling our wishes can help us realise them. WOOP instructs us to dream our future dreams (first) but (then) to imagine what obstacles in our psyche prevent us from achieving them”.
A WOOP user, Kamakshi Sinha, sorry for butchering that name, says that this has really helped her identify doable wishes, even though she can identify the hurdles in the if and then plan, she has a tangible approach to that. And again, Dr Sharma concurs, saying these approaches need intrinsic motivation in his 17 years of experience most approaches depend on you to change, so it is not a magical power or formula. It needs burning desire!
M: Come on, you just said magical, and you didn’t go Disney?
P: Laugh, I was on a roll and I’m on a time constraint here!
M: Laugh.
P: If I keep going it could be another 20 minutes here. Laugh!
M: All right, well, we are coming to the end here, so that’s a really good place to end. You’ve got to want to change.
P: Yeah.
M: But this is really about breaking it down into practical steps that you can take and then couple that with the research in neuroscience about changing behaviour. You’ve then got to stick with it. And as we’ve said, easy to say, not so easy to do.
P: Laugh.
M: We’ve all set New Year’s resolutions that –
P: Failed miserably.
M: -we’ve forgotten about very quickly. Laugh.
P: Yeah.
M: Moving on, laugh.
P: So, if you have been that sort of person and you haven’t had some tangible tools to actually deal with it. This is one of them that you can actually try.
M: Yeah, and then that next really tangible step that you can do is pop these into your diary.
P: Mmm.
M: So, that’s the final piece of advice that I’ll throw in there. It’s not part of WOOP, but it’s definitely part of a lot of the science of change and making change and personal change. So, once you’ve done all of your visualisation, you’ve worked out your Wish, your Outcome, your Obstacles and you formulated your Plan. Pop the steps into your diary and you’re more likely to do them.
P: Sounds good.
M: And on that note, we’ll leave it there until next week.
P: Go and be a German princess.
M: Please do.
P & M: Laughter.
M: See you next week.
P: Bye.
[Happy exit music – background]
M: Thanks for joining us today if you want to hear more, please remember to subscribe and like this podcast and remember you can find us at www.marieskelton.com, where you can also send in questions or propose a topic.
P: And if you like our little show, we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.
M: Until next time.
M & P: Choose happiness.
[Exit music fadeout]
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