Happiness for Cynics podcast – season 1, episode 1
We spend an estimated 90,000 hours at work over our lifetime, so it’s important that we’re happy at least some of that time, right? Here’s the latest research on how to bring happiness to your workplace.
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Transcription
Okay, Welcome back. You’re here with Marie, and Peter and this is Happiness for Cynics.
P: I’m the happiness, she’s the cynic.
M: [Laugh] Today, we’re going to talk about happiness in the workplace. Unfortunately, most people have to go to work.
P: [Laugh] Some of us choose to go to work because we’re happy.
M: [Laugh] A lot of us go to work because we choose not to live on the streets.
P: Aahh fundamental choices, we’ll talk about that in another episode won’t we.
[Laughter]
M: And I am I think that there’s a lot of discourse right now about choosing something that you’re passionate about and something that makes you happy.
P: Well, we do spend what, 30% of our time working or something like that.
It’s interesting because I made those choices many years ago not to follow the money path, to follow passion and it’s funny these conversation keep coming up and I’m “Hey, I’m already there, I’ve done it! Yay for me!
M: It’s funny you should say that because as much as I love you, I have to say, I feel like it’s an elite privilege to be able to make those choices.
P: I’d agree with you on that. Yes.
M: Not, not trying to judge you or anything but I think that a lot of people especially living in a large city like we are in Sydney. You don’t really have many choices, if you’ve got two kids and a husband or a wife or a partner, you have to make some career choices that may not be solely driven by your personal happiness.
P: Yes, completely agree. The ability to be able to choose passion over career or over a more logical choice is determined by your situation and your circumstances eg. Children, mortgage all that sort of stuff. You can choose to deny some of those but some of those you can’t and that will inform what you choose to do with your occupation. I agree with you on that one. Hey, we agree on something, how nice.
M: [Laugh] It won’t last.
P: [Laugh]
M: There’s been a lot of discussion in the media about millennials and the shift in millennials’ expectations for the work place and the fact that traditional corporates have been struggling to hire millennials because they’re not offering purpose and passion – or they traditionally haven’t – and they’re having to now look at what they offer to that generation if they want to hire them. Things like flexible work, purpose, meaning and in fact, there’s a great article that we just read called ‘It’s Time to Take Culture Seriously’ that we found on ChiefExecutive.net and in that article.. look I’ll quote something to you Pete, if you’ll bear with me. I’m really keen to discuss this idea of meaning and purpose, and whether it really is an organisation’s or company’s job to help employees discover their meaning and purpose and then provide that to them, or whether their job is simply to pay wages for work done.
P: Yeah
M: I’ll read this quote.
‘It’s time that we stopped thinking that culture happens to us and instead take responsibility for designing inclusive environments, collaborative ways of working and humane incentive systems that bring out the best in ourselves and in others. It certainly helps when a culture is modelled at the top, like the change that Mandela is sparking at Microsoft. But we’re all capable of making more positive choices that create meaning and shared purpose regardless of our official role or title.’
Now I find this fascinating, so meaning and purpose and the reason why I want to talk about that right now is that they’re so critical to happiness.
P: Definitely, I definitely agree.
M: If you’re lost and you’ve got no meaning, no purpose, it’s very hard to be happy. And so given that we spend so many hours a week out work, Do you think it’s the organisation or boss’s job to make someone’s role meaningful? What do you think? You’re a small business owner Pete?
P: I am and I have battled with that concept actually. I remember in my own career, in a former career, I remember one of my bosses turned to me, saying, “it is not my job to make you feel good my job is to create art.” So you would walk into the rehearsal room and you knew that it wasn’t that person’s job to make everybody feel good about themselves and have a nice time. They were like no, we have a job, we have to do this and we have to get this product made and we’re going to do that and it’s tough.
I don’t think that we can be mushy mushy and have all these fuzzy feelings in terms of CEO or leaders of business or business owners having to take responsibility for other people’s happiness. However, I think it is an interesting conversation that is coming around now that we are identifying that the workplace has a role in that and that if you read the people who have gone through the self help world and have come out the other side. The book that comes to mind is ‘The ‘Monk who sold his Ferrari’ by Robin Sharma. It’s a book about a guy who was a hot shot corporate lawyer then sold it all and moved to the Nepal and came back to his workplace and shocked everybody with his transformation. Our employees and our employment has the capacity to give our lives meaning, and I think there is a role that senior people can have in identifying that, but in that quote that you read there was a personal responsibility for everybody to ensure that they have meaning in their lives. So you can’t just give that over to somebody else there’s a bit of personal responsibility as well.
M: So I think it’s a bit easier in jobs where you’re using your brain and there’s flexibility for creativity. Where I think that this new idea falls over is in areas like the service industry or more blue collar work, to be honest. So if your job is to turn a widget 100 times every hour, how is the owner of that factory meant to give you more satisfaction, turning that widget 100 times per hour? How can they?
P: I think that comes down to the value of your worker and making your worker feel that they are part of a bigger cog or a bigger system that if that widget doesn’t turn then that’s not going to allow other people to achieve the high-end of the product if you like. So if you look at it from a watch maker’s perspective, if they ignore one cog, the whole system doesn’t work the watch doesn’t function and therefore, you can’t call yourself a watchmaker or repairer because you’re not doing the job. If the person in the chain is not aware that they are contributing to the bigger product, then that’s a failing of the person who’s in charge. You’ve got to empower the smallest of people to feel they’re making a difference. Take a janitor in high school if he doesn’t clean the rooms, then it is not a clean school. And that has huge implications on the students, the people who are using the product and the teachers who are coming in and expecting the science room to be clean on its not but that does that janitor have a clear line of sight to the affect that their work has. And maybe that’s where people who are in charge, CEOs and business people have more of a role to make people more informed of the value of what they actually do within a structure.
M: I think that’s a really good segue into a lot of talk right now about purpose of an organisation. Everyone always talks about the importance to motivate your employees of having a strong vision, it’s leadership 101. We’ve all known that for ages, but in today’s day and age, where technology and social media makes even the smallest mistake viral within 24 hours, the smallest leadership mistake can bring that down, and Uber is a great example that.
P: Absolutely, and we can look at some of our insurance corporations in the most recent rounds of the royal commission and see examples of that as well.
M: Yeah absolutely. So if an organisation in a capitalist society is there to make money and this is the cynic in me again, right. Like an organisation with shareholders, its primary purpose is to make money for its shareholders. You can also talk about the importance of your customers, which a lot of companies do, and one would argue that they’re intrinsically linked. You could also, then, if you’re really on top of it, talked about how valuable your employees are. And again, one would argue they’re all intrinsically linked. But when push comes to shove the purpose of a public company — we’re in Australia, so we would call them public — so shareholder owned company is to make money. So, how is it that an employee who turns 100 cog – even if it is for a watch maker and they understand that their watches help people tell time – Get it? How are they meant to feel that sense of purpose or meaning or pride, more than anything, I think if really all an organisation is there to do is to make money. And are we seeing a shift of bottom up ground swell that our employees and our customers are expecting more from corporations with all the corporate social responsibility? It was a fad 10, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, and now it’s becoming far more intrinsic to the way people operate.
P: I think you hit the nail on the head there in terms of the social aspects of corporate business and corporate identity because people are mindful investors now. So you have more people interested in supporting businesses that have a social network that have a social fabric or a social identity. Mining is huge, a lot of people don’t like mining, it’s dirty, it’s polluting and all that sort of stuff. But Australia makes its back off it, so we can’t just negate that huge influx into our economy. So mining companies are doing things like supporting local communities and doing indigenous development programmes to try and up their social value if you like. And I think that this is a change in what we’re seeing in terms of corporatisation, maybe you’ve had more to say on this but definitely since the industrial era, it’s no longer enough to just make more money and we’re seeing that in Geopolitics as well where the culture of wellbeing is informing our policy. Look at the recent release of New Zealand’s wellbeing budget that’s just been rolled out.
M: I just have to say, Jacinda Ardern [NZ’s Prime Minister] is just killing it, love it.
P: She is but what she’s doing differently with this is that this is a concept has been around since the 2000’s with lots of countries like Sweden, Wales, Ireland, even the UK and Australia have had these phrases in the treasury policies, and things have been out there. But what Jacinda is doing really well is that they’re taking it further, and now they’re putting in actual critical measurement stakes off the five areas they want to improve and they’re giving it value and giving it goals. So this is a reflection of maybe what’s going on in corporate culture as well is that no longer is it enough to just make more cash.
M: For those of you listeners who haven’t been following what little New Zealand has been doing over here in the pacific. Recently New Zealand announced a new set of goals for government essentially, and rather than just focusing on GDP, they’re focusing on wellbeing measures. So it’s not enough for the country to get richer and the people get poorer. And it’s not enough for the country to get richer if the people don’t have access to education and health care. So it’s really interesting to look at that. And if you want to read more on that, there’s a whole lot online around the sustainable development goals. And they’ve definitely aligned up to some great..
[pause]
P: I’m just looking at the reference actually
[Laughter]
M: Pete’s typing it you can hear him..
P: I was told I wasn’t allowed to type.
[more laughter]
M: There’s no getting away with typing with two microphones in a podcast.
P: There’s a great article on TheConversation.com that talks about New Zealand’s wellbeing budget deliveries. If you just put that into the search engine there they will come up with a whole heap of references to that website which is really pro-actively promoting the new Ardern agenda.
M: Yeah, definitely worth looking at. So back to happiness in the workplace, though. So what are the takeaways here. Is it an organization’s job to make sure it’s employees are happy?
P: It’s in its best interest, surely. A happy worker is a good worker. I’m going to come out with a personal story I have here where I was working in a hospitality job in Adelaide. We were having a little bit of fun on a Sunday was a big Sunday. We were getting slammed and it was hot. Everyone was wanting all this stuff and I decided I was in a silly mood and started taunting this waiter from across the cake counter. Doing little Peter Rabbit noises across the cakes. And she began to lose her flow for delivery to the table, to the point where she actually had to come behind the counter to give me a little slap and then we fell on the floor laughing. We were working for four hours really hard’. The business owner’s father walked around the countertop. Saw us both on the floor behind the cake counter, laughing, and simply looked at us and went, ‘well a happy worker is a good worker’. And I think that that’s a real little gem there is that happy workers will work hard for their employers if they can see the direct influence that they’re having. If your employer comes to you and says, Marie great job on this aspect of that presentation, it really helped give the company a certain leg up or got us forward in this, in this aspect of our business, that’s going to give you a little bit of feeling of well being and self esteem and self esteem is a huge bonus in terms of prerequisites for happiness. It’s going to make you feel good the next time that a difficult product or a difficult question crosses your desk. You’re going to do a better job again. That direct feedback is really important. And in that way, looking after your workers in that way is vital for a functioning company.
M: Yeah, Look, I definitely do agree, but the cynic in me just wants to reiterate that it’s not about having values plastered on a poster that you trot out any time you are interviewing someone.
P: Which comes down to a great quote in the article that we mentioned.
‘Clear communication is critical, but words are empty without follow through.’
P: You need to action things up. You can’t just be seen to be supporting wellbeing and supporting your work.
M: All right, well, we are out of time.
P: That was awfully quick [Laugh]
So we might circle back on some of the other developments in happiness at work. I know that the greater Good Science Centre, over at California, Berkeley. They do some great work and have even got an ed-X course titled ‘Happiness at Work’, which is a good free primer to all of the research out there. And there is a lot of research out there on the importance of happiness at work and also how to help your organisation or your business to have happy employees. There is also a lot of science behind this and the importance and benefits down to ROI [return on investment] and bottom line dollars for having happy employees.
P: So is a very big field. But all for another time.
M: Well, thank you, Peter.
P: My pleasure
M: I never call you Peter… and Thank you listeners, we will see you next time.
Meet besties Marie and Pete
Marie Skelton is an Australian writer, speaker, and change and resiliency expert. She started her career in journalism before working in public affairs and then specialising in organisational and culture change for some of the world’s largest tech and financial services companies, both in Australia and the U.S. She also played volleyball for Australia and on scholarship at a D1 university in the U.S. and she captained the NSW Women’s Volleyball team in the Australian Volleyball League.
Following a motorbike accident that nearly took her life, and leg, she began researching change and resiliency to find out how people cope with major life changes and why some people are really good at dealing with whatever life throws at them, while others struggle. She is passionate about mental health and writes about how to cope with today’s Change Storm and maintain mental wellness.
Peter Furness is just plain awesome. He loves unicorns and champagne. Pete is the owner of Max Remedial, and a qualified remedial therapist and has worked all over the world with professional athletes, dancers, sporting organisations and medical professionals. Peter’s practice is influenced by his interest in Eastern philosophy and he works closely with Chinese and Ayurvedic practitioners, approaching the body from the principles of ancient medicine.
Peter has practiced Asstanga Yoga for 20 years and combines these principles with his approach to health.
Peter was also an award-winning contemporary dancer in Australia and in the UK.
