Happiness for Cynics podcast
This week, Marie and Pete discuss Emotional literacy and how it’s a critical life skill for kids to allow them to grow into resilient well-balanced, emotionally intelligent adults.
Transcript
M: You’re listening to the podcast happiness for cynics. I’m Marie Skelton, a writer and speaker on change and resilience.
P: And I’m Peter Furness a holiday wannabe, a Corona free, filigree, apogee, pedigree, epogee. And if anyone can come up with a reference for that, I will send you a present.
[Laugh] Marie’s doing fist punches. Each week we will bring to you the latest news and research in the world of positive psychology, otherwise known as happiness.
M: So you’re feeling low.
P: Or if you’re only satisfied with life but not truly happy with it.
M: Or maybe you just want more.
P: Then this is the police to be!
M: And take us one step further on our happiness journey. Today’s episode is all about emotional literacy.
[Happy Intro music]
M: So Pete, emotional literacy.
P: This is a big one. I’m going to take the cynic roll on this one.
M: Oh really!
P: [Laugh] Yeah, I think we flipped. I think I’ve become more of a cynic now, and you’ve become more of the Yogi practising meditative person.
M: No, I’m still not doing meditation.
P: Crap.
M: [Laugh] Not crossing that line.
P: [Laugh]
M: Not that I’m questioning the science.
P: No, no, no, no, but I need to actually get you meditating. It’s going to be a lifelong goal for me. [Laugh]
M: Can you meditate while you run on a treadmill?
P: Eh, you can… It’s very difficult though.
M: Can you do something competitive while meditating? Because then I’m in. [Laugh]
P: Yeah, no, I know your competitive nature, and it’s not gonna work.
Anyway moving on emotional literacy. So when I first heard about this term, emotional literacy, I turned into my mother. I started going ‘pfft, who wants to know about this shit ra, ra, ra.’ You know 1930’s woman. I was very much like, What is emotional literacy? I actually had to go and investigate what it was we were going to talk about this week. So I’m going to take the cynic role.
M: Ah.
P: So Marie, what is this emotional literacy that you speak of?
M: Sure. So I have worked in a corporate environment for too many years, a number of years, and as part of that we do a lot of understanding teams and how teams work together and understanding yourself and looking at neuroscience and psychology. And a lot of the teaming activities that you do in corporate environments rely heavily on decent emotional intelligence and emotional literacy. So for me –
P: -Well emotional intelligence I get, so emotional intelligence is being able to understand feelings and so forth. Let’s get specific about the literacy aspect of it.
M: Yeah.
P: I mean, is this something that I need to read about? Is this something that I need to go and do a two-day workshop on?
M: Not you.
P: [Laugh]
M: However, the thinking is, so words matter.
P: Yeah.
M: Well definitely is an ex journo/ corporate affairs person, So words matter.
P: [Laugh]
M: We’ve done episodes before on positive affirmations and mindset and all of that, and words definitely have an impact on our happiness and or, you know, emotional well-being.
P: Yes.
M: But in order to be able to move through tough times. So we’ve talked about how resilience is your ability bounce back from adverse events.
P: Yep.
M: And we’ve talked about the Kubler Ross change curve in the past-
P: Ooh, I remember that one, yes.
M: -and how you go through all of those emotions to come out the other side. While you’re processing, you need to be able to self assess, and so you have to have a certain amount of emotional intelligence to do that. But step one before you get to any of that stuff that we’ve talked about is simply having the words to describe what’s going on, because we can’t analyse-
P: Stephen Fry would be very proud of you right now.
[Laughter]
M: Why what did I do? It’s about words?
P: Yeah, well is. It’s all about having the vocabulary to be specific about words.
M: Mm hmm.
P: And when I came across the reading over this, it resonated really easily with me because of our vocabulary and our ability to describe what we’re feeling is really important. If you are very specific about the emotion that you’re feeling, it’s much easier to categorise that and look at the possible reasons around why you’re experiencing that emotion.
So frustration is different to anger and being able to differ between the two means you can pinpoint when you’re being frustrated, as opposed to when you’re being angry. And one of them involves a lot less heightened emotion. You can actually be a bit more logical with it, and so you can address those elements. And for me that was the real um… I want to say congruent. But that’s the wrong word. I’m getting too literal now.
[Laughter]
P: I’m getting fancy with my words.
M: It’s the important part.
P: I Think it resonated with me that words are important and that having at vocabulary is really necessary. And this is something that needs to happen as a child, right Muz?
M: Yeah. So the reason that we picked this topic for this episode is a great study that dropped only a couple of weeks ago, and I actually mentioned in our last episode as well. But it comes from the Centre for Positive Psychology at the University of Melbourne.
P: Mm hmm.
M: And so they partnered-
P: My alumni am I now allowed to go [throat clearing noise]?
M: [Laugh] – so they partnered with a bunch of schools through Victoria to do positive psychology interventions focused on emotional literacy and developing kids emotional literacy. And –
P: Can we break that down a bit Muz in terms of positive psychology and emotional literacy? Can we talk just a little bit? Because I think that not all of our listeners may be aware of the link between the two.
M: Sure. What’d you have in mind?
[Laughter]
M: I’m not following where you’re taking me on this yet.
P: Okay, so what I came across when I was reading this report with the fact that they have this term PPI, so Positive Psychology Interventions. Is that correct?
M: It’s an activity. Let’s be really, really clear here.
P: Ok.
M: PPI or positive psychology intervention. It means we’re going to do an activity. And it’s based in the science behind, in psychology. Right?
P: [Laugh]
M: So what we know of positive psychology or the field of psychology that focuses on the positive rather than negative aspect? It’s an activity that is based in science.
P: Alright.
M: So again, this is just saying they did an activity with a whole bunch of kids about helping them to understand and develop their emotional literacy. And by that we mean be able to name and categorise feelings using words.
P: Mmm. There’s a great quote that I’ll grab here when I did some reading on this. And this comes from Claude Steiner, who was the first person to coin the term emotional interest in 1978 and he says that ‘Emotional literacy is the building block of emotional intelligence. When we develop our own emotional intelligence, we can access and develop information about ourselves and, more importantly, others. Without emotional intelligence, emotions remain confusing and misleading, ultimately impacting the relationship we have with ourselves as well as others.’
I really like that little sentence. It combines it all together in a really nice little package about what we’re talking about when we talk about [emotional] literacy, it’s about understanding what we’re feeling and how that affects how we relate to others.
M: Absolutely. And I think that we’ve grown up, particularly in Australia, with the older male generations being told from a very young age not to cry and not to show emotion and to man up. And don’t be a girl.
P: It’s a very British concept that one, may I add? [Laugh] Stiff upper lip.
M: Yes. As a result, not only have they not learned the words to use to name, to even name what they’re feeling
P: Exactly.
M: Because they push it all down deep. They also don’t process as a result, they don’t process those emotions, and you end up with really high rates of suicide in older men, particularly those whether you’ve got that rough culture like in northern Queensland. A lot of farming communities, country communities.
P: Yep, because they can’t deal with, they can’t name these emotions and it all becomes too overwhelming. And it it results in people not being able to cope. And this is why this work is so important.
M: Absolutely.
P: As an artistic lad in Dubbo New South Wales.
[Laughter]
M: You stood out like a sore thumb?
P: Yeah, just a little bit. [Laugh] But I think that’s the funny thing is that that’s why this does resonate with me. I read this and going, ‘Oh, yeah I’ve done this, I get this.’
M: Mm hmm.
P: Because having that understanding and delving into those personal emotions and being able to name them and target them and go ‘no, this is different to frustration versus anger and sadness versus despair. That is important stuff. And I think you’re right, Marie. I think that male, men in the old school world don’t have that ability, and they don’t have that intelligence because they’ve never been exposed to it. It’s like go out and beat the shit out of a punching bag. That’s how you deal with emotions.
M: Or you don’t even acknowledge them, even worse.
P: Exactly.
M: And we’re not talking about writing essays about how we’re feeling.
P: [derisive snort]
M: Exactly.
We’re talking about just simply understanding the difference between grumpy, tired, frustrated, angry and mad or sad, right?
P: Definitely, yeah.
M: Or overwhelmed. Or, on the flip side, how to actually identify good feelings, as well, and to celebrate those good feelings so feeling relaxed, relieved, proud and grateful, hopeful.
P: Yep
M: And being able to communicate that to people around us.
P: I love that love, that idea.
M: And sharing it.
P: And all the different things of positivity. It’s like there’s a whole cavalcade of experiences out there, it’s not just about being happy. It’s about all those things and I think that’s really important.
M: Yes, definitely. And the other thing that I find really fascinating. So a lot of schools nowadays are trying to help kids label their emotions and articulate what their feelings.
P: I like this direction I like this, fabulous. [Laugh]
M: And the great thing about that is when you’re overwhelmed with emotion, your brain switches to that old evolutionary part of the brain that is driven by needs and instinct. So you’re, you’re just reacting to the feelings you’re not thinking in a logical way. But by forcing someone who’s in that state to label the emotion they’re feeling it switches your, the part of the brain that you’re using into that logical analytical side.
P: Yes.
M: And by default, it actually makes you take more control over that emotion. That might have been overwhelming you before that point.
P: Mmm, mmm, can’t agree more.
M: So if you’re just really angry at something that somebody’s done to you and you feel slighted and you’re just so frustrated and angry and someone says, ‘Just help me out here what exactly are you feeling? The fact that you’ve got to process that and think about it switches you out of that anger.
P: Yep.
M: And already starts to make you feel better and less emotional and less at the mercy of that emotion, and I love that part of this labelling thing.
P: I agree.
M: So there is more science underneath this than just helping you to process it. And the other thing that I love is sharing that emotion in a positive, constructive way it doesn’t involve violence, it doesn’t involve lashing out. It is about sharing that with someone, and there is a… vulnerability to that. That means you’re actually in that moment, if you do it in the right way, bonding with that person as well, and there’s real value and support and connection that can come out of that.
P: And we’ve seen that in so many stories of the troubled kid. I remember teaching a boys dance class in Cornwall, in southern UK with a friend of mine. We were doing a boys only dance project and it was for years 7 to 9. We walked into this studio and we had this giant of the kid. He was 6 ft three and about 95 kg, and all the other kids were like, 5 ft and 26 kg. It was, this guy was a freak and Ben looked at me, and I looked at Ben and said, ‘Okay, what are we going to do with this kid?’ [Laugh]
We were doing partner improvisation, like he was gonna crush everybody and um Ben said, ‘OK, we’re going to throw him in with you.’ And I said ‘Ok, because I can handle 90 kg sure.
[Laughter]
P: And so we put this kid into, to working with me and using him as the demonstrator, and all of a sudden this proud, caring person came out and this kid was running around the entire workshop saying to his fellows, ‘No, no, you need to do it this way.’
And then after the first session, we kind of went into the teacher’s common room and we were sitting there and this person came up to me, said, ‘Oh, you’ve got Gerald in your class.’ And I said ‘Oh yeah, Gerald sure he’s the big kid. ‘We’re so glad he’s out of our class he’s so awkward. He is so difficult to deal with.’ And it was it was so amazing because then I was like ‘No, he’s amazing. He’s just, he’s so good. He’s so involved, is so connected.’ And it just took that change of emotional intelligence of understanding that, Yeah, he’s a big, awkward boy, let’s put him in a role that he can take charge. I’ll put him in a different situation and that changes his whole demeanour, changed his outlook and it changed the way that he interacted with the other kids. No longer was he being scary, man, he was the helper.
M: Yep, I think that shows your emotional intelligence.
P: Well, it does, but it shows the effects that what they’re talking about in the study is that if we can get this information out to kids at that level, when you’re dealing with these emotions and they’re able to identify their emotional states, put words to it and spend the time going ‘no, I’m not angry, I’m frustrated.’ As you said, that lessens the response.
M: Uh huh.
P: And you don’t get the kids who are being violent or lashing out because they’re able to, sit there with their emotions and go ‘no this is what I am and they’re being articulate about it. And that already dissipates the reaction by however many percentages you wanna label it, I would say you know, something like 50%. It makes someone so much more malleable. And so much more easy – not easier to deal with- more approachable you can come at the target together and that is a life lesson. When you go into adulthood having arguments with your spouse or something, being able to sit down and go ‘no, this is what I’m feeling.’
M: Mm hmm.
P: It’s a really important skill.
M: And it goes different ways. It enables people who struggle with saying ‘no’ to get over that as well, so people who have been silenced, who have grown up in families where Children were to be seen and not heard and have been told that achievement is everything and that there’s a certain type that comes out of that type of upbringing.
P: Yeah
M: There’s also a certain type who have never been taught how to label their emotions and work through their emotions because it’s girly or whatever.
P: Yes.
M: Or whatever, you know, insert weird reason here.
P: [Laugh]
M: And they’re the ones that turn to violence because they can’t express themselves any other way, and it bubbles up on boils over. And Australia has a huge problem with family domestic violence.
P: Absolutely. I can’t agree more. And I said that’s why this work is really important. And if we bring it back to the research group that’s in Victoria and they talk about building intentional emotional vocabulary. So we’re giving skills to children in this instance and using the interventions, which is activities as you are saying Muz, as evidence based informed activities to protect an increase our well-being by making us feel better so promoting feeling good and functioning well automatically puts us in a pathway to enhanced well-being. And that comes from the study that we were talking earlier.
M: Listen to you, ‘enhanced well-being’.
[Laughter]
P: It’s so scientific.
M: It make you happier, it makes you happier. Being able to work through your emotions quickly and process them and move forward is far better than staying in that dwelling weird space after a trauma or an adverse event. So it definitely helps to make you happier, which far better right?
P: That’s a brilliant point to end on, I love that. So it’s all good, good activities. Let’s, let’s, let’s finish on that one.
M: So well, we did discuss before we go that we wanted to provide a hint or tip for listeners and I think what we’re talking about here is how can we help kids cope with emotions and deal with emotions better? So, did you have anything you’d like to end with or any tips for parents to help their Children?
P: Talk about it. Talk with your kids about this sort of stuff and give them the vocabulary. So, use words like you would cue cards, give them seven options instead of two options to name their emotions and if you can do that, I think it involves a lot of what we’re talking about here with the positive psychology it’s being specific. They talk about being open minded to other people’s feelings and being aware of your effect on others. That, that emotional, emotional honesty practising emotional honesty is a really big point.
So if you can be specific on particular about your emotions, that means you’ve done the work yourself about what you’re feeling. And if you could encourage that as a parent and speak with your Children about that and be open to it. And if they come up with a word that makes you feel a little bit prickly, then maybe that’s something that really does need to be addressed and looked at.
M: Yep.
P: It’s a vulnerable state, but if you can have those frank conversations and really listen and be present, I think that that’s probably best tip.
M: Yeah, all right, Well on that note we will end today’s show, thank you for joining us today if you want to hear more please remember to subscribe and like this podcast and remember, you can find us at www.marieskelton.com.
P: If you like our little show, we’d love a review, so please leave a comment or a rating on our podcast app to help us out.
M: Yes, that would make us happy.
P: Until next time…
M&P: Choose Happiness.
[Happy Exit Music]
Related content: Read Happiness for Cynics article:
Words That Can Change Your Mindset