Happiness for Cynics podcast
This week, Marie and Pete talk about the science behind planning holidays, and why you need to always have your next holiday planned.
Show notes:
Transcript
[Happy intro music -background]
M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.
M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.
P: Plus, sometimes we’re kind of funny.
M: [Excited voice] Welcome back to Happiness for Cynics!
P: Laugh. She’s doing fist bumps people.
M: Laugh. So today we’re talking about why you need to plan your next holiday now.
P: Oh, that’s why you’re excited! We’re talking about your favourite thing to do.
M: Yes!
P: I’ve got to say it, if you’ve ever been on a holiday with Marie, she puts all my spreadsheets to shame.
M: Laugh.
P: Absolute shame.
M: Because, I buy into what we’re talking about today.
P: Oh, do you ever! Laugh.
M: It brings me so much joy to take trips and to explore the world.
P: See, I don’t think Covid would have affected you at all because you would have planned everything and then gone ‘Oh, ok I can’t go but I still get the benefit of actually planning one. Laugh.
M: Well, that is the first point that we’re going to discuss. There is benefit in planning a trip, and some of the research actually shows that just the act of planning your trip can bring as much joy if not more joy than the trip itself.
P: So we should actually plan our Covid holidays. And when they don’t happen, don’t be upset.
M: Or plan holidays that you know you will be able to do regardless what happens. So we went away over Christmas and the way that we planned that was we got a camper van for the first time ever.
P: Laugh.
M: Did something a little different and booked places to visit that were within our state.
P: Oh yeah.
M: So regardless of whether our borders shut or not… yeah. And a lot of people are actually rediscovering towns and cities within their own state.
P: Oh, yeah. The rural areas of New South Wales have had a huge influx. Like Mudgee is going off. For those of you who are our international listeners, Mudgee was a sleepy little town that I knew as a boy way back when had lots of birds and a soccer pitch from memory. Anyway, small little town in the central west of New South Wales. Central west? Or? Yeah, central west I think and it has changed, its turned itself around and become this Airbnb, wine, weekend away mecca.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: And it doesn’t really good job, laugh. And this cute little provincial rural Australian town is doing so well.
M: So if you’re listening, why not plan a trip? To Mudgee.
P: There you go, I want to go. I told my client this afternoon I want to go on.
M: And the research is showing is, going to Mudgee would be great, I am sure, but planning the trip to go to Mudgee so getting online and everyone could do this nowadays.
P: Yep.
M: You don’t have to walk into a travel agent and ask them about Mudgee. You can go and Google or whatever your search engine is. And then look up what there is to do in the area.
P: Yeah.
M: So.
P: And then decide to go to Carcassonne on the way anyway. Laughter!
M: Wrong country.
P: The best laid plans can be adapted, that was my point of that one.
M: Yes, absolutely. So just because you’re planning doesn’t mean that there can be no room for spontaneity.
P: Absolutely.
M: And I would highly encourage room for spontaneity.
P: We did that. It was very fun, anyway, we’ll get to that. That’s a personal anecdote that we’ll do later.
M: One thing that is important when it comes to planning trips is to give yourself enough time to plan ahead.
P: I like this point, because this is thing, I used to be like ‘Oh, I’ll do it all on the plane when I go’.
M: Yes, and what that does is add stress. So not only are you getting on the plane going ‘Oh crap, I haven’t booked the hotel for the first night, I’ve got to do that and hopefully I can find a rental car, or how do I get to the city from the airport?’
P: Laugh.
M: All of that stuff that just makes you a little bit more stressed. If you plan it ahead of time, then things can run a lot more smoothly. And there is research that shows that poorly planned and stressful vacations eliminate the benefits of time away.
P: Oh!
M: So it’s not even worth taking the trip if you’re not going to plan it out ahead of time, and it’s just going to be stressful.
P: Really?! Okay… Personal experience tells me that that’s not necessarily true because there is a certain adventurousness in not planning and going I’m just going to fly by the seat of my pants and turn up in Scotland and see what happens.
M: Which is fine if it’s not stressful.
P: Okay, so that’s the trick.
M: That’s the trick. Would you show up in New Delhi –
P: Laugh.
M: – without plans?
P: Laugh, it could be adventurous?
M: It wouldn’t go so well.
P: The Amazing Race does it?
M & P: Laughter!
M: They’ve got a lot of support around them. And I would argue that it is very stressful still.
P: But I see what you’re saying here. But that also comes back to some of the other stuff that we’ve talked about in other episodes is that changing your mind set. So, if you’re going on an adventure holiday, where you’re going to challenge yourself not to plan anything.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: You have to choose not to get stressed about it and so if you end up sleeping in a ditch on the side of the road at 4 in the morning because you’ve gotten lost in the hire car, then you’ve kind of gotta go, ‘Oh, well, this’s an adventure.’
M: Says the white man.
P: Oh!! Really? Really?
M: As a female sleeping in a ditch in a foreign country is… I wouldn’t sleep.
P: Ok. Oh, alright.
M: Well actually, this is a really good point. And sorry, that was a bit harsh.
P: You just totally shut me down, laugh.
M: There was a study done in 2016, and Shawn Achor & Michelle Gielan, his wife, did a whole lot of research into the benefits of taking your vacation time, taking your holiday time. And they looked specifically at people who were, full time salaried employees who have no excuse not to take their holidays.
P: Yeah.
M: It’s given to you. You get your four weeks a year, and particularly in the States you can lose your holiday. It’s not a thing that you have as much in Australia, but they take it back if you don’t use it a lot of the time over there.
P: Oh, really!
M: And still, a lot of Americans were taking less and less time off. And so there was this idea that it would benefit you in your career to take less time off.
P: Yep.
M: You could do more, your boss doesn’t think you’re a slacker.
P: Is that an old world kind of opinion?
M: Pressure?
P: Is that an old school kind of thinking? 50s, 60s?
M: Well, the research that they did in 2016 debunked that.
P: Yeah, righto.
M: Absolutely debunked it, And America’s a strange case. So, in Europe they’re used to, having four to six weeks in Australia four weeks is pretty standard, I think New Zealand’s pretty similar.
P: Yeah.
M: In America, when I first started and joined a major multinational corporation, I had ten days, so two weeks.
P: Oh! Wow.
M: And after five years, you go up to 15 days, and after ten years you get to your full four weeks and you have to work up to that four weeks. And still a lot of Americans don’t take their full allocation of leave.
P: You hear of this a lot actually. Americans not buying into that whole time off aspect of work.
M: And they’re working longer hours too. The work culture in America is definitely going the opposite direction from the Nordic countries.
P: Mmm, interesting.
M: And even New Zealand and now Australia are even talking in a lot of companies about doing four day weeks. Whereas Americans are not doing 40 hour weeks, they’re doing 50 and 60 hour weeks.
P: Mmm.
M: And not taking their holidays.
P: Yeah, that’s not good for you long term, either.
M: No, absolutely.
This study back to the point we were talking about before, talked about the things that you need to get the most benefit out of your holiday.
P: Ok.
M: So firstly, planning ahead.
P: Yeah.
M: Two, creating social connections on the trip. So, it’s great if you could go with your family or friends.
P: Ok.
M: But if not, then do activities where you can meet other people. So group activities where you can be social.
P: Museum tours.
M: With other people? Sure. Don’t be 100% by yourself if you are travelling.
P: Yeah, well it was always nice to have a connection there that would meet for lunch or something, or that you’re meeting up with friends later on in the trip.
M: Yeah.
P: That was actually a really good way. And it’s something that I have actually maintained with my holiday planning is I’ll often go three days earlier, have my solo time and then catch up with the group.
M: The research shows that having some social time is beneficial.
P: Communal time, social activity is beneficial, yeah.
M: Three go far away from your work. And I think this is a digital and physical requirement.
P & M: Laughter!
P: Yes, I agree. Don’t take the computer.
M: Yes. Turn off… well, no one has blackberries anymore.
P: Laugh. Showing your age Muz.
M: Don’t take your work phone with you if you can.
And the next one was a feeling of safety.
P: Huh.
M: And this goes back to you sleeping in a ditch which, when I was 18 I probably would have thought was fine. But now, with a little bit of hindsight, I can see the danger in me sleeping in a ditch.
P: Laugh, true.
M: So as long as you feel safe, then I do agree with you, go for it, add a little spontaneity. Don’t book some stuff. Give yourself the freedom to just explore without any set agenda.
P: And be reactive, yeah.
M: If you’re the kind of person that that doesn’t bring stress to. Or you know you can do it in safety.
P: So, know the kind of traveller you are.
M: Yeah.
P: OK, that makes sense. I like that.
M: And if it’s not going to impact your safety. So if you’re a female travelling by yourself, there’s a whole slew of other things you need to just be aware of, particularly in quite a few countries that aren’t comfortable with Australia.
P: True. I remember rescuing two twins from America in Italy once. These two girls got off the train – this’s the classic case, so I had not planned my accommodation. I actually, no I had. I planned my accommodation when I landed in umm… where was I going?
M: That place.
P: Northern Italy. Yeah, up the top, that area, laugh.
M: Milan?
P: Milan, there we go! And so I was planning my accommodation. I got there and the youth hostel was closed and I spent six hours in the winter walking around trying to find a room that I could afford, and you are my very basic Italian it was very, very difficult. Eventually, I found one on was so grateful and then went out for a bite to eat. I think I went out for Maccas of all things.
M: Laugh.
P: And as I was walking past the train station, these two young American girls had gotten off the train with their backpacks and they had no idea what they were doing and they had no accommodation. And so, me being the good old Ozzie went, That’s okay ‘I can speak Italian.’
M & P: Laughter.
P: And went door knocking with them –
M: Awwww.
P: – trying to find a motel that they could afford and they found one, which was great. But I see what you’re saying about safety that’s really important and I did look at these two American girls going, ‘Oh, dear, you’ve got less of an idea that what I’ve got.’ Laugh.
M: Mmm hmm.
So, the things [for planning a successful holiday] are:
- You need to plan ahead;
- You need to create social connections;
- You need to go far from your work; and
- You need to feel safe.
And if you do those four things, the 94% of vacations have a good return on investment in terms of your energy and outlook. When you return to work. As long as you plan the trip well in advance.
P: I like this point, can we expand on this a little bit? The investment in a holiday?
M: Yes.
P: It is an investment.
M: It is. It’s about taking time for you.
P: To re-energise and that’s coming from someone who did work for six years without a holiday.
M: Cray cray..
P: Yeah, and I didn’t realise it at the time, and it took my business coach, the lovely Wally Salinger, Ah, Wally, I miss you. Waking me up at 7 am with cups of tea when I haven’t woken up for our 7 am meeting yet. Umm, not every business coach gets that, but yes.
M: Laugh.
P: I just spent all these years just working, working because my came from that work ethic of you keep working, you don’t take holidays, you keep going because you think that it’s more beneficial and Wally and his partner decided to encourage me to take my first holiday and bought me my first three nights in Amsterdam for the accommodation and said, ‘You’re going, you’re finally investing in this and here’s your little prize’. So I had my three nights of accommodation in Amsterdam, but that trip, I came back full of beans. I came back with so much energy and clarity on I’d had the chance to step away from my work and got perspective on things.
I think that was the real advantage of the investment. So that then I came back and started planning yearly holidays. I was like, I’m gonna have a holiday in October and it was the best thing I could have done.
M: I am prone to burn out.
P & M: Laugh!
M: I’m not very good at saying no, and I take a lot on at work and I’m bit of a perfectionist.
P: Mmm hmm.
M: And so, year after year, I get to my holiday and I am just frazzled and stressed and low on resilience.
P: Yep.
M: And I know these that these are things I’m still working on.
P & M: Laughter.
M: But every time I take a holiday, I come back with so much more clarity, so much more emotional resilience, so much more of an ability to plan and think strategically, and to get out of the weeds and get out of the emotion and be such a better employee and to actually like my job again.
P: Yeah, yeah.
M: So, we know that it makes sense to take time off work. It’s good for you. It’s good for your career progression, it’s good for your success at work. It lowers your stress, makes you happier at home and at work. But also in a time of a global pandemic and we started talking about this before. The act of planning a trip is so beneficial to your mental health.
P: Mmm.
M: So planning future travel, boosts your mood and your mindset. It’s about having hope and something to look forward to. It increases your happiness, and it can help fill a little bit of a void.
P: I think definitely filling the void is the thing because people feel that they aren’t in control of the immediate future because everything is on hold. But in the planning of it, it can be like a bit of an adventure. It’s like, OK, so we’ve got these perimeters. Let’s make a holiday with these restrictions.
M: Yep.
P: And this idea of only travelling 200 kilometres away, but let’s do it in a dinghy!
M & P: Laugh.
P: Or on a tricycle.
M: Why not?
P: Laugh, only carrying a backpack, whilst reciting Shakespeare.
M: Laugh. If that’s your jam, go for it.
P: It’s a choose your own adventure.
M: Absolutely. Get creative and you can do it as a joint social activity, you know, let the kids decide where they want to have a dinner one night.
P: Oh, that’s dangerous, that is dangerous. Laugh!
M: And plan it together so you can share the planning of the holiday as well.
P: So it’s important. I guess that’s the other point is to involve the social group. If you’re going away with the kids, let the kids be part of that planning because that will increase their anticipation and their ownership, and they get the benefit of the planning as well.
M: Absolutely and if you’re going with friends, there’s great tools, Airbnb allows you to share, Trip adviser, a lot of apps nowadays are really just built for sharing and doing things together.
P: They are, yeah.
M: Planning together, definitely. So there’s recent research. So, The study we were talking about before about the workplace was a 2016 study. But there is a 2021 study conducted by The Institute for Applied Positives Research, which found that 97% of respondents report that having a trip planned makes them happier.
P: Mmm.
M: And I think this is about having hope right?
P: Yeah.
M: It’s about having something to look forward to and something –
P: It’s a bit of a placebo effect.
M: Umm..
P: Because you’ve got something to look forward to, so therefore you get the benefit, even if it doesn’t happen.
M: Well, no then you’d be disappointed. So don’t plan for something that – we’re not going to Italy this year like, let’s be really honest.
P: Laugh.
M: But we can plan to do something within our state and have a high level of confidence that we’ll be able to do it.
P: I guess what I’m saying is that even in the planning of it and if you get together and have a few Italian themed dinners, if something happens and you don’t get to go to Italy, you can still go ‘Ah, we’ll just go up the road to the Italian restaurant again and speak Italian to them.’
M: Laugh.
P: That’ll be enough, and that could actually, you know, you still get the placebo effect in a way.
M: Sure, of the planning?
P: Yes.
M: But then you still get the disappointment. I would argue for maybe planning future trips but not booking anything.
P: Oh, yeah.
M: And then planning trips, planning for trips that you can most likely take.
P: True, losing money would be stressful and horrible and not fun.
M: Yeah, definitely. And I think it all comes down to a great concept that I heard from Tal Ben Shahar, who’s running the Happiness Academy course that I’m currently doing. And he was saying that ‘you’re only old when you look to the past more than to the future.’
P: Ahh, I’ve heard this idea, and I totally agree.
M: Absolutely.
P: You need to have some future progression and stop thinking back on things, back on the good old days and back on when I was 23 full of vigour.
M: And there is benefit to looking back.
P: There is, yeah, there definitely is. But you’ve got to balance that. It’s going to be a balancing with what’s to come and excitement about the future as well.
M: Yep. And unfortunately, so many people just cancelled all future plans. Birthdays were cancelled, Christmas was cancelled, travel was cancelled when the pandemic hit, everything was wiped off our calendars and we had no choice but to look back and all the things we used to be able to do.
P: True.
M: And it wasn’t with just pure nostalgia. It was nostalgia with a bit of bitterness, Laugh.
P: True, laugh. [Singing] ‘Nobody knows the trouble I’ve seen.’
M & P: Laughter!
M: This is about balancing that. I think that’s perfect word, there Pete, balancing and giving ourselves a bit of hope for something to do in the future.
P: Mmm, I like that idea. Holiday is hope, it’s a double H.
M: Yep. Laugh, love it. Well on that note we’ll finish up.
P: Plan your next holiday and have some hope.
M: Yes, get out of here.
P: Laugh! Bye!
M: Bye.
[Happy exit music – background]
M: Thanks for joining us today if you want to hear more please remember to subscribe and like this podcast and remember you can find us at www.marieskelton.com, where you can also send in questions or propose a topic.
P: And if you like our little show we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.
M: Until next time.
M & P: Choose happiness.
[Exit music fadeout]
Please note that I get a small commission if you buy something from my site. Your support helps to keep this site going, at no additional cost to you. Thanks!
