Awe and wonder

Happiness for Cynics podcast – episode 4

Experiencing awe is about being engaged with the wonder of life. Tune in to hear why you need more awe in your life and how to find it!

Want more on awe? Check out our article on awe-inspiring activities or download our inspiration infographic.

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Transcription

P: Hi there. You’re listening to the podcast happiness for cynics. I’m Peter Furness, remedial therapist, ex dancer and happiness aficionado. And each week, we’re bringing you news and research in the world of positive psychology and happiness. My co-host is Marie Skelton.

M: Yes. Thanks, Peter. Hi, everyone. I’m Marie Skelton, a writer, speaker and change expert. I also write about this topic at marieskelton.com, it’s a site about major life changes and transitions and how to cope with them, the site uses a lot of the same research we talk about here on the podcast and has some really practical tips for bringing joy and happiness into your life. You can also find me on Twitter at Marie Skelton.

P: So on to today’s episode, which is all about all awe and inspiration.

[Happy intro music]

M: So today we’re talking about awe and inspiration. I guess we should probably start with what is it?

P: Absolutely, let’s go for it.

M: So experiencing awe is about being engaged with the wonder of life I like to think of awe as life’s exclamation marks. They punctuate our lives in rare and special moments. So Collins dictionary if we get to what everyone else is saying, the definition –

P: Let’s get some scientific references in there Marie, you know you love it with science references.

M: [Laugh] Collins dictionary says awe is the feeling of respect and amazement that you have when you’re faced with something wonderful and often rather frightening.

P: I like that they put frightening in there. [Laugh]

M: Yeah, there’s less in our lives that’s frightening now. But if you take a wider view of the definition of frightening, I think you can expand it to those moments where you’re just standing somewhere that makes you feel small and it’s frightening and its vastness or its size or greatness.

P: I guess what I like about frightening is that if something scares, you should give it a crack, [laugh] it’s taking you outside of your comfort zone, taking you outside of your known sphere.

M: Seize the day, right.

P: Come on, let’s change this stuff. [Be]cause change comes from doing something I haven’t done before. So for me frightening is a great letter. I’m not necessarily scared of being frightened. That’s not a very good use of tautology.

[Laughter]

P: Fear is good lever, it’s a good lever that pushes you forward.

M: Absolutely, so I think it’s worth noting that it’s a very subjective thing awe or inspiration. So some people find awe and wonder regularly and small things and big things around them, while others are only experiencing awe occasionally and it’s different for every person.

P: Very much I find that awe can be the big moments, but it can almost be those small moments when you’re walking through the street, and one of the things that I’m very aware of is our ability to disconnect, disconnect from our phones and from our tablets and from our laptops and so forth and just look around you. Sometimes there are really inspiring amazing moments happening and we miss them, miss them all the time. It’s about finding those daily ones. So one of the great examples is walking through the mall and hearing a beautiful piano accordion with a violinist playing by some buskers. Sometimes you can actually stop and listen and be semi inspired by them, not even semi inspired, sometimes completely inspired. It’s just taking the time to notice those little moments and go ‘Wow, that’s really quite incredible.’

M: Yeah, so it’s about being mindful, firstly, in a way and mindful is word that comes to mind there it’s really easy to just go through life and not take the time to notice those things.

P: Yes

M: There’s also some really great research that I’ve read into our perceptions of time and how, as a kid, I don’t know if you remember a three hour car trip as a kid just felt like –

P: – EEuuggh.. So many six hour car trips with my Father in the Bedford in western New South Wales with no iPod no iPhone thank you! Not even a book.

M: And no air con

P: [laugh] Oh my god, yes!

M: And you couldn’t wind the windows down because we were on the highway.

P: The 200 kilometres stretch from Nyngan to Cobar that is a dead straight road.

M: [laugh] So, that just felt like forever and nowadays, you know we’ve just passed into 2020 and I don’t know where 2019 went. It feels like the whole year just flew by so quickly. And there’s some great research into how humans perceive time and one of the things that they look at is as kids everything is new. Everything is new and so we notice everything.

P: Yes

M: And our days are filled with new things to learn about a notice and as we get older, we spend a lot more time I think, on autopilot.

P: Yep, it takes a lot more to impress us.

M: Yep or we’re not being mindful with the life that we do have

P: True

M: As you were saying, so awe for me is about being a kid again. It’s that wonder as a kid.

P: Getting that moment and admitting to yourself ‘That’s wonderful’ I’m going to spend the time and actually –

M: – Enjoy it.

P: Yeah enjoy it. Notice it. Clock it.

M: Yeah. So what are some other moments that you can refer to Pete in your life that have brought you awe?

P: It’s also about those big moments as well so one of the one of the moments for me was when I first started working on my own. So I transitioned from being a dancer into a remedial therapist and I was working for a company and I was pretty much starting again. So I spent about three years, three and 1/2 years working 6 to 7 days a week on no holiday. And I was on this loop of just keeping on going, through each month. Just going, Yep, keep going. Keep going. It was only until my business coach, Wally Salinger, said to me, “Pete, when are you having a holiday?” I’m like I don’t do holidays. “Oh, you really should.” [laugh]

M: There’s a recipe for burnout. [laugh]

P: Exactly, completely and It’s interesting when I got into that rotation, of just keeping on going, keeping on going. I wasn’t stopping and smelling the roses. I wasn’t necessarily going ‘oh isn’t this beautiful.’ I was living in Sydney and so forth and it was lovely and I wake up living in Pott’s Point looking out at the harbour thinking isn’t this pretty. But then I was like right work go and back into my routine. So Wally actually insisted that I take a holiday… I needed a break. So he bought me my 1st 2 night’s accommodation in the Netherlands. So I got to Amsterdam on and I had time and space and I was wandering around Amsterdam, riding a bicycle and doing yoga in the Park.

M: Of course you were.

P: [Laugh]

M: Let me just say, by the way, how many life coaches buy you two nights in the Netherlands?

P: [Laugh] Yeah, it’s not bad. It was amazing because I remember having time to go into museums, and walking into this room and seeing this 20 foot high painting, a Rembrandt, and thinking ‘I feel amazing’ that’s what awe can do.

M: Yeah, So let’s maybe take a look at the neuroscience or the science behind it. So what’s going on when people are experiencing awe?

P: OK, so when you’re going through a normal day your brain is on autopilot, you’re in default mode you’re going to the normal actions. You getting your coffee, going past the newsstand that you go past 20 times a day, all that sort of stuff. There’s not much going on and the older we get, the less often our brain is distracted with the new distracted by inspiration being around awe inspiring events or sequences. This shakes this up. It makes us see things that take us into a new experience. We’re taking notice of more things. There’s more ‘Oh Shiny’ moments.

[Laughter]

P: Research in the Netherlands has actually discovered that when we’re fully immersed in experiencing awe it switches on our brains so we engage more with our external world and less with ourselves and I think that’s a really important point. It draws our focus outward. All our worries about the mortgage, the electricity payments, all that sort of stuff that seems to get a little bit softer when we’re in a scene that is overlooking a cliff face into an ocean.

M: There’s also a lot of research into the importance of experiencing awe and the benefits. And it’s both physical and mental benefits here. So according to researchers, the state of immersion in awe enhances your wellbeing gives you more satisfaction in life it sharpens your brain, and it makes you feel less impatient and more time rich. There’s also additional studies about the impacts to physical health. There were studies where University of Toronto, University of Pittsburgh and University of California, Berkeley, showing that experiencing awe reduces inflammation in the body. So it helps you deal with infection, inflammation and trauma, amongst other things. Also back to what we were talking about last time gratitude. So experiencing awe leads to people being more generous, more pro-social and more willing to volunteer. Maybe it’s as a result again, going back to that frightening, but as a result of people feeling humbled by things that are much larger than themselves.

P: Yeah, so there’s a perspective.

M: Absolutely. It does change your perspective. It makes you feel insignificant in a good way.

P: Yes, it draws your… draws your worrisome nature away from the small things. It’s the small grains of sand that you don’t need to worry about maybe.

M: More than that, I think it makes you realise that you’re one cog in a very large wheel and that’s not a bad thing. You do con[tribute], rather than it being all about you, or your worries and your stresses and how you are going to pay the mortgage and how you know, buy the kids, Christmas presents and all of that other worry day to day worry. It places you in the world as one of many billions of people on and when you think about that way and it’s not just about you, we start looking at how we can help others around us and contribute more to the society that we live in.

P: And that comes back to that generosity word that we talked about in the last podcast is putting yourself in their perspective. Generosity makes you more appreciative, which then makes you focus on more of the positive aspects of what you can achieve as opposed to what you can’t.

M: Yeah, so it’s all interlinked, all of this stuff, right?

P: Definitely.

M: So experiencing awe makes you more generous.

P: Yeah, I like that.

M: According to research.

P: So Marie, what brings you awe?

M: I like to refer to the goose bump test.

[Laughter]

M: Right?! If I look back on my life, there’s a few moments that I have experienced goose bumps, live performance.

P: yet definitely.

M: And I love ‘America’s Got Talent’ –

P: – [Laugh] Reality TV shows!

M: The moment where the underdog gets laughed at by the judges and the crowd and then comes out and kills it.

P: Yeah it’s the Susan Boyle moments –

M: The Susan Boyle moments, they get me everytime.

[Laughter]

P: They do, they tap into that unexpected pleasure because you go ‘Yeah, you go man!’ –

M: And you get goose bumps. But for me the one that really sticks in my mind is a holiday I took back in 2015 to India. It was probably the second week of a three week trip, and we finally got to the Taj Mahal and I remember walking underneath the arch way as you come into the big Taj Mahal area and seeing the Taj Mahal for the first time, through the haze, through the thousands of people, and just feeling the goose bumps of that moment, and it is just the grandest proclamation of love.

P: [Laugh]

M: If I can be romantic… that building beats Romeo and Juliet by a mile.

P: [Sharp intake of breath] [Laugh]

M: I got goose bumps, and that was awe to me, and I stood there being jostled by everyone and really took the time to take that moment, and that has stuck with me years later.

P: I’ve got a similar story where I was taking my niece through Italy and we went to Riomaggiore on the Cinque Terre trail. We decided to get there and Alex was 16 and all eager and she said “what are we going to do today Uncle Peter?” and I said we’re going for a walk and she goes where? And I said we’re going to go left. [Laugh] So we walked out of our accommodation and we walked left then we took another left and we ended up at some random sign post in Italian that said Nunnery, and I said ooh let’s follow that. So we’re trudging up this hill and my niece was like Uncle Peter where are we going? I said “we’re going to a nunnery” and she went “right…” and we’re walking up random goat tracks. We ended up going past bushes that were filled with hornets. And Alex was not amused, she was not happy. And then she turned around to me at the halfway point and goes Uncle Peter you do realise I don’t like hills. And I’m like well it sucks to be you right now. Anyway we’re going through these goat tracks and she’s constantly bemoaning, getting upset because we’re walking in this hot weather. And then we got to the nunnery. And God bless her she turned around and said “so where’s the nuns?”

[Laughter]

P: “No, there’s no Nuns here darl[ing], they’re all gone”

We walked around the back of the Nunnery and were on the cliff. We’re looking out over the ocean on and I turned her and said how goods this? And she went “Yeah alright, you win.”

[Laughter]

P: And that was a goose bump moment so that’s the thing of not necessarily planning to have one. We weren’t going to a specific destination, but we found something and it creates those moments where you do. We sat there for 20 minutes, and she did sit there for 20 minutes and just took it in and that creates a certain amount of perspective and brings it all home to you.

M: So you mentioned there you didn’t plan for it, but I think that the good news is you can plan for awe in your life, but it is a very subjective thing. So you know what works for one person won’t work for another necessarily. Do you have any tips for our listeners on how to plan for awe?

P: Aaahh… Well, for me it’s become go on a holiday. Wally got it right all those years ago. So every year now I do plan a holiday somewhere. It doesn’t have to be a big destination or and overseas holiday it just means taking time out. Getting time to have those walks outside, and that’s another good way to find awe as well is spending quality time outside and about. Take yourself out of your known sphere. Go somewhere that you haven’t been before. Walk around or take a boat ride or take a bike ride and stop somewhere. And if you find something that’s inspiring and sit in it for a while, setting those times aside to indulge in inspiration is really important. And I like the fact that you mentioned live performance because obviously being an ex-artist that is one of the big moments for me I’ve had so many moments where I literally gasp going that was amazing!

M: [Laugh]

P: When I’ve watched someone do something incredible or heard someone sing. It’s those are really important and easily accessible ways to get some awe and inspiration. There are free concerts around Sydney at the moment, with the Sydney Festival and one of the ones I’m looking forward to is the Opera in the park. You could go and here world class performers do amazing things and you’re just sitting in the park.

M: I think the key is to find someone that does something that inspires you. And that might be performance or it might also be someone who thinks in a way that inspires you. Ted is hugely popular, and I think it’s because people can sit there and go, Huh? And they have ah huh moment, right?

P: Yeah

M: That I’m actually going to go and take what you said to make change in my life. That’s how inspirational it was.

P: Yeah, and accessibility to that now is so much more.

M: Absolutely. You just need to go online. And speaking of going online there, there is no substitute for getting out all right, getting out into nature and seeing live performance, etcetera. But there are two things you can do if you are short on time or energy, and one is to relive your inspiring moments, so simply reliving them can have a positive impact on your well being. So take out photos of trips you’ve taken the birth of your first child. How many of us have taken videos or photos off our wedding and they sit in a cupboard for the rest of our lives?

P: [Laughter]

M: It is so worth it — you know, as long as you still love your significant other…

P: Well even if you don’t, I mean, it was a happy point in your life.

M: [Laughter] … To take the time to actually put it on the TV and watch it and that can actually bring you a lot of joy, just reliving awe inspiring moments. And then the second thing people can do is to start an awe inspiring playlist or album or journal. So there’s some beautiful pieces of music that for me always just.. [inspire] I like Carmina Burana by Carl Orff. Love that music.

P: Very lovely piece.

M: Absolutely and that would be on my list. You can also just start taking cuttings out of magazines or travel magazines printing stuff from online. Things that bring you awe and just start a journal, and one day that might be your guide to your holiday book.

P: [Laugh] Very true, we’ve all done that.

M: In the meantime, it’s something that can bring you joy and a really great resource that I do want to point you towards is, and on its online, Berkeley has an awe video experience, so we’ll pop that online so that people can find the link. It’s a beautiful video of awe inspiring scenery around the world, really worth checking out.

P: That’s where sometimes the old Google chrome cast can come in really handy as well. If you can find those images that either recall beautiful moments like whenever I see the Great Barrier Reef, I’m instantly transported back to when I lived in North Queensland went out there for the first time and dove amongst the coral. Or placed that you want to go places that you have a desire to visit. Those, those images can be very important to keeping our focus and changing it if we need to.

M: Absolutely.

P: Okay, well I think we’re out of time, we’ve gone on long today.

M: Yep

P: Thanks for joining us. If you want to hear more, please remember to subscribe and like this podcast.

M: Thanks.

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Meet besties Marie and Pete