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Finding Flow (E93)

by

Happiness for Cynics podcast

This week Marie and Pete talk about finding your flow and the wonderful benefits it can give you on your journey to true happiness.

Transcript

[Happy intro music -background] 

M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.  

P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.  

M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.  

P: Plus, sometimes I think we’re kind of funny. 

[Intro music fadeout] 

M: Welcome back.

P: I’m in a recumbent position and I’m not moving.

M: Laugh. Pete’s sitting, his legs crossed and his arm above his head.

P: I’ve been told that I’m not allowed to move because I make too much noise, laugh!

M: He does, our poor production people.

P: Laugh!

M: Person, sorry.

P & M: Laughter.

P: Yeah, we have a team.

M & P: Laughter.

M: Yes, Pete has a habit of scratching furiously –

P: Laugh.

M: – jingling his bracelets, clicking his fingers.

P: Laugh, I just like to express myself every now and then get myself into a mode and I like to let everybody know how I’m feeling.

M: Laugh. And by every now and then, you mean every two minutes.

P & M: Laughter.

P: If you’re wondering what we’re talking about. We’re talking about how to do a radio interview properly and how you have to sit with your hands on the table feet apart.

M: You should plant yourself in a position where – See he’s already just running his hands over his leg. Laugh.

P: I like touching things I can’t help it!

M & P: Laughter!

M: Very tactile, laugh.

P: You want people to be relaxed and be able to respond during an interview. So, for those of us who are more physically inclined.

M: Then we’d probably get you to stand in front of a mic that’s fixed.

P: Ahh…

M: So that you can’t touch things or bang things –

P: That wouldn’t work for me. Laugh.

M: – or just stay put! Well, for those of you who listen to our show, we hope you find the [background noise] …noise that is constant. Laugh. Pete just dropped a pillow.

P: Laugh. I did not!

M: We hope you find it charming, not amateurish.

P: Laugh, it’s something new every week that people can enjoy.

M: Laugh. All right, well, today we are actually exploring our full range of emotions, and it is not such a happy day today because we are sad to say that Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi has passed away at the age of 87.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: So, he’s a Hungarian-American psychologist, and we started out really early by looking at his work on flow, didn’t we, Pete?

P: Mmm. He was the first person that I remembered because I had to remember his name.

M: Laugh.

P: Had to learn how to say it.

M: We spent a lot of time drilling in Csikszentmihalyi, Csikszentmihalyi, Csikszentmihalyi.

P: Laugh.

M: And for those of you who you think that’s only four syllables, I think there’s like 20 letters, though. [16 letters]

P: Yeah, there was an alphabet.

M: Laugh.

Csikszentmihalyi was Hungarian-American, and he was known for his work in the study of happiness and creativity. He was really a pioneer in the positive psychology space, and in particular he introduced flow theory in the seventies, and he defined flow as a state of mind attained when one becomes fully immersed in an activity.

P: He was a real ground breaker, though I can’t imagine many people in the seventies who weren’t living in communes and going around and burning their bras.

M: Remember, he came from Hungary to the States in 1956.

P: Mmm.

M: So, he would have been living through World War II prior to that.

P: Yeah. It makes his ideas and his brain even more amazing.

M: Absolutely.

P: Chicago’s a pretty, pretty liberal kind of place. It has got some great minds and some really broad thinking people there.

M: Yep.

P: But in the seventies, he was in San Francisco. This person would have gone around going, “I want to talk about flow.” Laugh. Can you imagine what these academics?

M: Laugh.

P: I mean, this is exactly what the podcast is about. It’s about the cynical brain, and I just think someone who is that ground breaking, who could go, “I’m going to explore this and I’m going to pursue it with research.”

M: Mmm hmm.

P: That’s amazing conviction.

M: I think that a lot of people, you know, Viktor Frankl is another great example of someone who, so he wrote Man’s Search for Meaning and he spent a lot of his time researching what makes people happy and he lived through the camps.

P: Yeah, mmm.

M: So, I think Csikszentmihalyi – Pete’s changing chairs.

P & M: Laugh.

M: His knees are cracking.

P & M: Laugh.

M: Now Csikszentmihalyi, I don’t believe it was in the camps, but I do believe he was [affected].

P: Mmm.

M: He lived through World War II and was definitely impacted by it. And I think that led a lot of people to want to study psychology.

P: And the meanings and reasons behind why people behave in a certain way, yes.

M: And what matters in life. Just like over the last 18 months, a lot of people around the world during the pandemic have reassessed their lives and what is and isn’t important.

P: Mmm, yes. Hugely.

M: Yeah, so whereas you and I have planted gardens, Csikszentmihalyi dedicated his life to helping other people understand what brings happiness. He developed this theory of flow and received a lot of awards and an external recognition for that and spent a lot of time in universities teaching others about how to live life.

P: Mmm, yeah again that would have been a ground-breaking area of development.

M: And the field of positive psychology was really new then.

P: Yeah, yeah, certainly in it’s infancy.

M: And he was not only a pioneer in flow, but more broadly positive psychology and really helped the movement gain traction more broadly and with the public.

P: Yeah, yeah. So, for those who may not have heard our previous episode on this. Marie, what is flow?

M: Flow.

P: Yeah.

M: Flow, F – L – O – W, not Flo down the road.

P: Laugh. She makes the best pumpkin scones, I swear.

M: Laugh. Or not ‘flow’s come to town.’

P: Laugh.

M: Which is such an Aussie –

P: Laugh.

M: – saying. I’m not going to explain for our overseas listeners –

P: Laugh!

M: – what that means.

P: Laugh. Australian colloquialisms.

M: Let’s just say it happens once a month for most women.

P: Laugh.

M: So, what it [flow] means is that you’re completely focused on the task at hand, to the point that you forget about yourself and others and about the world around you.

P: Mmm.

M: So, you might lose track of time. But it doesn’t matter because you’re so engrossed in your activity and so happy in the moment.

P: Mmm. We’ve talked about it being a state of presence and a real mindfulness.

M: It’s this weird dichotomy where you’re so in the moment that you’re unaware of what’s happening around you.

P: Yes.

M: So, I’ve got a quote here from Csikszentmihalyi. So, he says,

“Contrary to what we usually believe, the best moments in our lives and not the passive receptive, relaxing times, although such experiences can also be enjoyable if we’ve worked hard to attain them. The best moments usually occur when a person’s body your mind, is stretched to its limits in a voluntary effort to accomplish something difficult and worthwhile.”

P: So, it’s those things that you remember when you’re reflecting on something from 10 years ago or when you’re maybe in a stressful situation and you’re recalling that ‘No, I’m sure I can do this, I remember back in 1982 when I did that’, and I was in that moment. Is that kind of what flow does? It makes, it builds a little bit of resilience maybe it builds a little bit of a marker for us to rely on in future times?

M: I guess it does in the sense that if you’re looking at not giving up.

P: Mmm.

M: Or using your passion to dedicate time to building skills or depth of understanding, I guess from that point of view you could use it. But I think more than that, it’s the pleasure it brings in the moment. Just like mindfulness has been proven scientifically to help with happiness levels. It’s about being deeply engrossed in something and flow, similar to meditation, has the same types of impacts on the brain.

P: Mmm.

M: The same types of positive impacts and visualisation during flow can give similar results to when people are meditating. So, really, it’s about creating an environment where you can just follow your passion down a rabbit hole.

P: Laugh, be like Alice!

M & P: Laugh!

P: Follow the White Rabbit.

M: Exactly, follow the white rabbit and come out the other side, and you’ll feel proud and satisfied of what you’ve done that day versus eight hours on the couch Netflixing.

P: Mmm.

M: Which as Csikszentmihalyi says here can also be enjoyable.

P: Right, but in a different way?

M: Exactly. Or, you know, if you’ve worked really hard for a holiday and you just want to lay on the beach for a few days, that can be a good experience, and definitely we need that kind of rest as we’ve discussed before.

P: Yep.

M: But flow is a different type of… I won’t say rest, but it can be equally as satisfying and equally as positive to your mental health.

P: It’s kind of like a way of tapping into that well spring of positivity. For those who are maybe a little bit obsessive compulsive or much more active people, people like yourself who might struggle with meditation. This is another way of accessing those benefits.

M: Yeah.

P: In a very different format. You can be as neurotic as you want about getting the grout out of the bathroom if you really want to if that’s your flow.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: It’s much more in touch with… mindfulness with activity? Is that a fair call?

M: Yeah, I’d say so. And it’s about also achieving things. So many people read Marie Kondo’s book or watched her on Netflix and got to packing their T shirts in those little tepee things in the drawers.

P: Laugh.

M: You know what I’m talking about, laugh. I know you do.

P: Laugh!

M: And you know that was lockdown activity number one. Let’s go through and spring clean and de-clutter everything. And a lot of people really took a lot of satisfaction from spring cleaning their places during lockdown.

P: Yep.

M: So absolutely, you can apply it to many different things.

P: Laughter!

M: For me, it’s writing so I can start writing and look up hours later and the sun has gone down.

P: Yeah. When you’re in that moment, and it’s kind of really special because it doesn’t happen very easily. It doesn’t happen all the time, not every time do you sit down to write does it happen. It’s got to be –

M: Sadly, no.

P & M: Laugh.

P: – the right atmosphere, the sun is going to be in the right position, you know a butterfly has to have flapped its wings in Tokyo.

M: Mmm hmm, laugh.

P: You know. All that sort of stuff, laugh.

M: And there’s a great quote by Margaret Thatcher, and she says,

“Look at a day when you’re supremely satisfied at the end of it. It’s not a day when you lounge around doing nothing. It’s a day when you’ve had everything to do, and you’ve done it.”

P: Mmm.

M: So, it’s like the satisfaction of ticking that last item off your to do list and then closing your laptop down on a Friday afternoon.

P: Yes, laugh.

M: Being like, ‘Yes! it’s the weekend.’

P: Laugh, it’s 5:03.

M: Laugh. Eh… Four o’clock.

P & M: Laugh!

M: Now, I’ll watch some Ted talks, laugh. Hang out here till the boss isn’t watching.

P & M: Laugh.

P: They’ve already been down at the pub for three hours.

M: Laugh! So, really, what we’re talking about. And, we mentioned this, I think it was episode five that we first talked about flow.

What is Flow and How to Find it (E5)

P: Yes, it was right at the beginning.

M: Yes, before you were studying and we’re throwing out scientific terms at us, left, right and centre.

P: Laugh.

M: We discussed the default Mode Network, or DMN.

P: Yes.

M: Where all your autopilot/default activities happen.

P: Yeah.

M: And so, to explain that term before we move on. So, as kids, everything is new and we’re constantly learning. And as we get older, things become more of the same, and as a result, our brains don’t need to try as hard.

P: Yes.

M: And they instead operate in the default mode network. So that’s when you’re on autopilot. But when you’re in a state of flow, just like when we’re experiencing awe, we move from the autopilot part of our brains to the learning and inspiration part.

So, it’s about switching from wake up, feed the kids, have a shower, brush your teeth, get out the door, get on your public transport, get to work. It’s about switching off that default mode network and that do this every day and switching on –

P: Yeah, it’s almost passive in a way, isn’t it?

M: Yeah, switching off the passiveness and switching on the engagement, the excitement.

P: OH MY GOD THAT’S A RED PEN ON THE FLOOR! Laugh!

M: Laugh, right? Imagine going back to Disneyland for the first time every day?

P: Ooohhh!!!!!

M: Right? That’s what you’re trying to tap into that wonder and awe.

P: Yeah.

M: Awe is another one as well. You know, for me, the moment that really brings back memories of awe was first seeing Taj Mahal. I imagine if I went back, I wouldn’t have that same feeling.

P: It’s divine, mmm.

M: Yep, it is. It’s about trying to find ways to tap into that again, and you can actually do that. And so maybe we can move forward with ways to bring more flow into your life and deliberately put into practise. Because there are… Oh, God, we’re sounding old now, 50 years of research now, thanks to Csikszentmihalyi on this topic. Since it first came out in the seventies.

P: Yeah, wow.

M: First one, Get rid of the bloody mobile phones.

P: Yes! I’m fully on board for that one. Put it down. Put it in a drawer. And where I first went with this idea is give yourself time.

M: Yep.

P: Give yourself some time to experience flow, set some time in a diary and go ‘this is my flow hour.’ You might not get there but give yourself an hour to explore it.

M: Absolutely. And to do that,

P: Uninterrupted.

M: Yes, it needs to be uninterrupted. So, if you’re sharing a house with someone else, maybe try going to sit in the park.

P: Mmm.

M: Or go to the library.

P: Yep.

M: Those things still exist.

P: Laugh.

M: I know we get all our content online nowadays, but libraries have really evolved quite a bit.

P: I think they’ve done a remarkable job of remaining current and appropriate in the digital age.

M: Mmm hmm. Absolutely. So, go find somewhere quiet and turn off your phone. Put it on silent or leave it another room to stop you checking it because the other thing we do with our phones is if they’re within hands reach in that moment when we’re switching thinking from one idea to the next, we reach for the phone. We go ‘I wonder if anyone’s messaged, I wonder if I’ve gotten an email’ and it’s about not doing that and letting the ideas flow from one to the next, not interrupting that thinking.

P: Mmm and that’s a training thing as well, doing that repeatedly actually makes it an easier state. You don’t get distracted by the technology quite as often.

M: Mmm hmm. Even the technology that’s not on, right?

P: Laugh.

M: Because it’s just in arm’s reach. You turn it back on.

P: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

M: Okay, so number two, we kind of touched on this and they’re all interlinked, is get away from other people.

P: Laugh, have your moment.

M: Mmm hmm. If you’ve got kids, you know, the phone ringing, the TV blaring, you know our busy lives can just feel like one big interruption, and I know at work I have in the past really struggled with finding flow. And as someone who needs to do a lot of writing and thinking, it’s really difficult when you’re constantly being pinged on teams and messenger or whatever your platform is that your company uses to communicate and then you’ve got emails and then you’ve got your phone and it’s exhausting at times to never have that time to do deep work.

P: Mmm.

M: And meetings.

P: Laugh.

M: Oh my goodness, do we love a meeting in corporate world? So, it’s about blocking out time, and I do this now. So, three days a week, not every day but three days a week. I’ll block a two-hour block, and mostly I’m successful at protecting it. And I’ll close down my email and my messenger apps and then just do some work. And I find I come out the other side of that day so much more satisfied with myself.

P: Mmm, yep.

M: Absolutely. Because I’ve actually done some work that day.

P: Because you’ve given yourself the time and eliminated distractions.

M: Yep, and not only that, I do get work done in between meetings and multitasking and all the rest of it. But there’s nothing like the flow that comes from the two hours uninterrupted work.

P: Mmm, the quality. Yeah. And I find that even when I’m working with someone as a client, as a massage therapist, it’s very easy for me to cut out all the distractions. And people tend not to want to interrupt that space.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: Unless they really, really have to. And it is. It’s lovely when I’m in there and I remember going back to when I first started professional work as a massage therapist, really easy for me to do 2.5 hour treatments because there wasn’t a time limit with certain clients and I could indulge and so I could actually –

M: How do I get a massage therapist like you?

P: Laugh! Get them when they’re young.

M & P: Laugh!

P: That’s all I can say, laugh! But it was that love. It was that lovely indulgence. And when you’re in that space, you can do some pretty amazing quality work because it builds one on top of the other. It’s that cumulative effect, if you like, of achievement. And, as you said, unlocking even more fabulousness from yourself.

M: Yeah, absolutely. So, the third thing is, find the right task that you can immerse yourself in. Folding the laundry doesn’t count.

P: Laugh. This comes back to our conversation about passion, I think.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: Knowing what it is that gives you that flow. Or what activity is that you know you can achieve that state in.

M: Yep. So, Csikszentmihalyi says it needs to be sufficiently difficult without being overwhelmingly difficult or unachievable.

P: Yeah, yeah.

M: So, there’s got to be a challenge there to it. This is why study, is a good one.

P: Yep.

M: So, I don’t know… As someone who’s gone back to university whether you’ve experienced flow when studying.

P: Completely, yeah. Especially when I’m engaged with the content. You do, you look up and go, ‘Oh my god, it’s dark. Where’d the day go?’ Laugh.

M: But I will say both of us are quite similar. And where we go to with our flow activity is it is so subjective, though. So, just because we haven’t mentioned it today in this podcast doesn’t mean that… You know maybe riding a horse –

P: Yeah.

M: – is your thing. Trying to think of things that other people might, laugh.

P: Climbing a mountain.

M: Mmm.

P: Like going for a peak, for example? I mean, that’s very challenging, and that can be a flow moment.

M: Yep.

P: It means you’re doing it on your own, laugh!

M: Yeah, definitely. So, there are some ideas that we can give you. Well three in particular. So, if you’re looking for things to bring flow and also some other benefits as well, a lot of it can be found by doing things in a novel or new.

P: Mmm.

M: So, find inspiration by doing something new. So, sign up for a class or activity or course that’s a good one.

P: Yep.

M: Find inspiration by going somewhere new. So go for a mountain climb or get out of town. Even, what I love doing is getting on the hop on, hop off bus.

[Hop on Hop off Bus Tours – providing sightseeing tours on an open-top bus where you can hop on and off to explore it all at your own pace.]

P: Laugh.

M: Love it. And then find inspiration by meeting someone new. Oh, and having a conversation or sparking new ideas with people.

P: Which might lead to new activities, yeah. I like that.

M: Mmm hmm. Or you can try volunteering or joining a book club.

P: Putting yourself in flows way.

M: Yes.

P: Laugh.

M: Absolutely. All right, well, that’s all we have time for today. Again, so sad news today in the positive psychology community.

P: Yes.

M: But –

P: What a legacy to leave.

M: Yeah.

P: Yeah, I just think it’s such a fabulous thing. I was the inventor of flow and positive thinking. Thanks. Goodbye, laugh.

M: Peace out, mic drop.

P: Laugh.

M: Laugh. Alright, well on that note, wishing you a happy week with plenty of flow.

P: Chow

[Happy exit music – background] 

M: Thanks for joining us today if you want to hear more, please remember to subscribe and like this podcast and remember you can find us at www.marieskelton.com, where you can also send in questions or propose a topic. 

P: And if you like our little show, we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out. 

M: Until next time. 

M & P: Choose happiness.  

[Exit music fadeout] 

Please note that I get a small commission if you buy something from my site. Your support helps to keep this site going at no additional cost to you. Thanks! 

Bringing Awe and Inspiration into Your Life (E4)

by

Happiness for Cynics podcast – episode 4

Experiencing awe is about being engaged with the wonder of life. Tune in to hear why you need more awe in your life and how to find it!

Want more on awe? Check out our article on awe-inspiring activities or download our inspiration infographic.

Subscribe so you don’t miss out! We’re working on new episodes as we speak. Check back here, or subscribe!

Transcription

P: Hi there. You’re listening to the podcast happiness for cynics. I’m Peter Furness, remedial therapist, ex dancer and happiness aficionado. And each week, we’re bringing you news and research in the world of positive psychology and happiness. My co-host is Marie Skelton.

M: Yes. Thanks, Peter. Hi, everyone. I’m Marie Skelton, a writer, speaker and change expert. I also write about this topic at marieskelton.com, it’s a site about major life changes and transitions and how to cope with them, the site uses a lot of the same research we talk about here on the podcast and has some really practical tips for bringing joy and happiness into your life. You can also find me on Twitter at Marie Skelton.

P: So on to today’s episode, which is all about all awe and inspiration.

[Happy intro music]

M: So today we’re talking about awe and inspiration. I guess we should probably start with what is it?

P: Absolutely, let’s go for it.

M: So experiencing awe is about being engaged with the wonder of life I like to think of awe as life’s exclamation marks. They punctuate our lives in rare and special moments. So Collins dictionary if we get to what everyone else is saying, the definition –

P: Let’s get some scientific references in there Marie, you know you love it with science references.

M: [Laugh] Collins dictionary says awe is the feeling of respect and amazement that you have when you’re faced with something wonderful and often rather frightening.

P: I like that they put frightening in there. [Laugh]

M: Yeah, there’s less in our lives that’s frightening now. But if you take a wider view of the definition of frightening, I think you can expand it to those moments where you’re just standing somewhere that makes you feel small and it’s frightening and its vastness or its size or greatness.

P: I guess what I like about frightening is that if something scares, you should give it a crack, [laugh] it’s taking you outside of your comfort zone, taking you outside of your known sphere.

M: Seize the day, right.

P: Come on, let’s change this stuff. [Be]cause change comes from doing something I haven’t done before. So for me frightening is a great letter. I’m not necessarily scared of being frightened. That’s not a very good use of tautology.

[Laughter]

P: Fear is good lever, it’s a good lever that pushes you forward.

M: Absolutely, so I think it’s worth noting that it’s a very subjective thing awe or inspiration. So some people find awe and wonder regularly and small things and big things around them, while others are only experiencing awe occasionally and it’s different for every person.

P: Very much I find that awe can be the big moments, but it can almost be those small moments when you’re walking through the street, and one of the things that I’m very aware of is our ability to disconnect, disconnect from our phones and from our tablets and from our laptops and so forth and just look around you. Sometimes there are really inspiring amazing moments happening and we miss them, miss them all the time. It’s about finding those daily ones. So one of the great examples is walking through the mall and hearing a beautiful piano accordion with a violinist playing by some buskers. Sometimes you can actually stop and listen and be semi inspired by them, not even semi inspired, sometimes completely inspired. It’s just taking the time to notice those little moments and go ‘Wow, that’s really quite incredible.’

M: Yeah, so it’s about being mindful, firstly, in a way and mindful is word that comes to mind there it’s really easy to just go through life and not take the time to notice those things.

P: Yes

M: There’s also some really great research that I’ve read into our perceptions of time and how, as a kid, I don’t know if you remember a three hour car trip as a kid just felt like –

P: – EEuuggh.. So many six hour car trips with my Father in the Bedford in western New South Wales with no iPod no iPhone thank you! Not even a book.

M: And no air con

P: [laugh] Oh my god, yes!

M: And you couldn’t wind the windows down because we were on the highway.

P: The 200 kilometres stretch from Nyngan to Cobar that is a dead straight road.

M: [laugh] So, that just felt like forever and nowadays, you know we’ve just passed into 2020 and I don’t know where 2019 went. It feels like the whole year just flew by so quickly. And there’s some great research into how humans perceive time and one of the things that they look at is as kids everything is new. Everything is new and so we notice everything.

P: Yes

M: And our days are filled with new things to learn about a notice and as we get older, we spend a lot more time I think, on autopilot.

P: Yep, it takes a lot more to impress us.

M: Yep or we’re not being mindful with the life that we do have

P: True

M: As you were saying, so awe for me is about being a kid again. It’s that wonder as a kid.

P: Getting that moment and admitting to yourself ‘That’s wonderful’ I’m going to spend the time and actually –

M: – Enjoy it.

P: Yeah enjoy it. Notice it. Clock it.

M: Yeah. So what are some other moments that you can refer to Pete in your life that have brought you awe?

P: It’s also about those big moments as well so one of the one of the moments for me was when I first started working on my own. So I transitioned from being a dancer into a remedial therapist and I was working for a company and I was pretty much starting again. So I spent about three years, three and 1/2 years working 6 to 7 days a week on no holiday. And I was on this loop of just keeping on going, through each month. Just going, Yep, keep going. Keep going. It was only until my business coach, Wally Salinger, said to me, “Pete, when are you having a holiday?” I’m like I don’t do holidays. “Oh, you really should.” [laugh]

M: There’s a recipe for burnout. [laugh]

P: Exactly, completely and It’s interesting when I got into that rotation, of just keeping on going, keeping on going. I wasn’t stopping and smelling the roses. I wasn’t necessarily going ‘oh isn’t this beautiful.’ I was living in Sydney and so forth and it was lovely and I wake up living in Pott’s Point looking out at the harbour thinking isn’t this pretty. But then I was like right work go and back into my routine. So Wally actually insisted that I take a holiday… I needed a break. So he bought me my 1st 2 night’s accommodation in the Netherlands. So I got to Amsterdam on and I had time and space and I was wandering around Amsterdam, riding a bicycle and doing yoga in the Park.

M: Of course you were.

P: [Laugh]

M: Let me just say, by the way, how many life coaches buy you two nights in the Netherlands?

P: [Laugh] Yeah, it’s not bad. It was amazing because I remember having time to go into museums, and walking into this room and seeing this 20 foot high painting, a Rembrandt, and thinking ‘I feel amazing’ that’s what awe can do.

M: Yeah, So let’s maybe take a look at the neuroscience or the science behind it. So what’s going on when people are experiencing awe?

P: OK, so when you’re going through a normal day your brain is on autopilot, you’re in default mode you’re going to the normal actions. You getting your coffee, going past the newsstand that you go past 20 times a day, all that sort of stuff. There’s not much going on and the older we get, the less often our brain is distracted with the new distracted by inspiration being around awe inspiring events or sequences. This shakes this up. It makes us see things that take us into a new experience. We’re taking notice of more things. There’s more ‘Oh Shiny’ moments.

[Laughter]

P: Research in the Netherlands has actually discovered that when we’re fully immersed in experiencing awe it switches on our brains so we engage more with our external world and less with ourselves and I think that’s a really important point. It draws our focus outward. All our worries about the mortgage, the electricity payments, all that sort of stuff that seems to get a little bit softer when we’re in a scene that is overlooking a cliff face into an ocean.

M: There’s also a lot of research into the importance of experiencing awe and the benefits. And it’s both physical and mental benefits here. So according to researchers, the state of immersion in awe enhances your wellbeing gives you more satisfaction in life it sharpens your brain, and it makes you feel less impatient and more time rich. There’s also additional studies about the impacts to physical health. There were studies where University of Toronto, University of Pittsburgh and University of California, Berkeley, showing that experiencing awe reduces inflammation in the body. So it helps you deal with infection, inflammation and trauma, amongst other things. Also back to what we were talking about last time gratitude. So experiencing awe leads to people being more generous, more pro-social and more willing to volunteer. Maybe it’s as a result again, going back to that frightening, but as a result of people feeling humbled by things that are much larger than themselves.

P: Yeah, so there’s a perspective.

M: Absolutely. It does change your perspective. It makes you feel insignificant in a good way.

P: Yes, it draws your… draws your worrisome nature away from the small things. It’s the small grains of sand that you don’t need to worry about maybe.

M: More than that, I think it makes you realise that you’re one cog in a very large wheel and that’s not a bad thing. You do con[tribute], rather than it being all about you, or your worries and your stresses and how you are going to pay the mortgage and how you know, buy the kids, Christmas presents and all of that other worry day to day worry. It places you in the world as one of many billions of people on and when you think about that way and it’s not just about you, we start looking at how we can help others around us and contribute more to the society that we live in.

P: And that comes back to that generosity word that we talked about in the last podcast is putting yourself in their perspective. Generosity makes you more appreciative, which then makes you focus on more of the positive aspects of what you can achieve as opposed to what you can’t.

M: Yeah, so it’s all interlinked, all of this stuff, right?

P: Definitely.

M: So experiencing awe makes you more generous.

P: Yeah, I like that.

M: According to research.

P: So Marie, what brings you awe?

M: I like to refer to the goose bump test.

[Laughter]

M: Right?! If I look back on my life, there’s a few moments that I have experienced goose bumps, live performance.

P: yet definitely.

M: And I love ‘America’s Got Talent’ –

P: – [Laugh] Reality TV shows!

M: The moment where the underdog gets laughed at by the judges and the crowd and then comes out and kills it.

P: Yeah it’s the Susan Boyle moments –

M: The Susan Boyle moments, they get me everytime.

[Laughter]

P: They do, they tap into that unexpected pleasure because you go ‘Yeah, you go man!’ –

M: And you get goose bumps. But for me the one that really sticks in my mind is a holiday I took back in 2015 to India. It was probably the second week of a three week trip, and we finally got to the Taj Mahal and I remember walking underneath the arch way as you come into the big Taj Mahal area and seeing the Taj Mahal for the first time, through the haze, through the thousands of people, and just feeling the goose bumps of that moment, and it is just the grandest proclamation of love.

Taj Mahal, India (2015)

P: [Laugh]

M: If I can be romantic… that building beats Romeo and Juliet by a mile.

P: [Sharp intake of breath] [Laugh]

M: I got goose bumps, and that was awe to me, and I stood there being jostled by everyone and really took the time to take that moment, and that has stuck with me years later.

P: I’ve got a similar story where I was taking my niece through Italy and we went to Riomaggiore on the Cinque Terre trail. We decided to get there and Alex was 16 and all eager and she said “what are we going to do today Uncle Peter?” and I said we’re going for a walk and she goes where? And I said we’re going to go left. [Laugh] So we walked out of our accommodation and we walked left then we took another left and we ended up at some random sign post in Italian that said Nunnery, and I said ooh let’s follow that. So we’re trudging up this hill and my niece was like Uncle Peter where are we going? I said “we’re going to a nunnery” and she went “right…” and we’re walking up random goat tracks. We ended up going past bushes that were filled with hornets. And Alex was not amused, she was not happy. And then she turned around to me at the halfway point and goes Uncle Peter you do realise I don’t like hills. And I’m like well it sucks to be you right now. Anyway we’re going through these goat tracks and she’s constantly bemoaning, getting upset because we’re walking in this hot weather. And then we got to the nunnery. And God bless her she turned around and said “so where’s the nuns?”

[Laughter]

P: “No, there’s no Nuns here darl[ing], they’re all gone”

We walked around the back of the Nunnery and were on the cliff. We’re looking out over the ocean on and I turned her and said how goods this? And she went “Yeah alright, you win.”

[Laughter]

P: And that was a goose bump moment so that’s the thing of not necessarily planning to have one. We weren’t going to a specific destination, but we found something and it creates those moments where you do. We sat there for 20 minutes, and she did sit there for 20 minutes and just took it in and that creates a certain amount of perspective and brings it all home to you.

M: So you mentioned there you didn’t plan for it, but I think that the good news is you can plan for awe in your life, but it is a very subjective thing. So you know what works for one person won’t work for another necessarily. Do you have any tips for our listeners on how to plan for awe?

P: Aaahh… Well, for me it’s become go on a holiday. Wally got it right all those years ago. So every year now I do plan a holiday somewhere. It doesn’t have to be a big destination or and overseas holiday it just means taking time out. Getting time to have those walks outside, and that’s another good way to find awe as well is spending quality time outside and about. Take yourself out of your known sphere. Go somewhere that you haven’t been before. Walk around or take a boat ride or take a bike ride and stop somewhere. And if you find something that’s inspiring and sit in it for a while, setting those times aside to indulge in inspiration is really important. And I like the fact that you mentioned live performance because obviously being an ex-artist that is one of the big moments for me I’ve had so many moments where I literally gasp going that was amazing!

M: [Laugh]

P: When I’ve watched someone do something incredible or heard someone sing. It’s those are really important and easily accessible ways to get some awe and inspiration. There are free concerts around Sydney at the moment, with the Sydney Festival and one of the ones I’m looking forward to is the Opera in the park. You could go and here world class performers do amazing things and you’re just sitting in the park.

M: I think the key is to find someone that does something that inspires you. And that might be performance or it might also be someone who thinks in a way that inspires you. Ted is hugely popular, and I think it’s because people can sit there and go, Huh? And they have ah huh moment, right?

P: Yeah

M: That I’m actually going to go and take what you said to make change in my life. That’s how inspirational it was.

P: Yeah, and accessibility to that now is so much more.

M: Absolutely. You just need to go online. And speaking of going online there, there is no substitute for getting out all right, getting out into nature and seeing live performance, etcetera. But there are two things you can do if you are short on time or energy, and one is to relive your inspiring moments, so simply reliving them can have a positive impact on your well being. So take out photos of trips you’ve taken the birth of your first child. How many of us have taken videos or photos off our wedding and they sit in a cupboard for the rest of our lives?

P: [Laughter]

M: It is so worth it — you know, as long as you still love your significant other…

P: Well even if you don’t, I mean, it was a happy point in your life.

M: [Laughter] … To take the time to actually put it on the TV and watch it and that can actually bring you a lot of joy, just reliving awe inspiring moments. And then the second thing people can do is to start an awe inspiring playlist or album or journal. So there’s some beautiful pieces of music that for me always just.. [inspire] I like Carmina Burana by Carl Orff. Love that music.

P: Very lovely piece.

M: Absolutely and that would be on my list. You can also just start taking cuttings out of magazines or travel magazines printing stuff from online. Things that bring you awe and just start a journal, and one day that might be your guide to your holiday book.

P: [Laugh] Very true, we’ve all done that.

M: In the meantime, it’s something that can bring you joy and a really great resource that I do want to point you towards is, and on its online, Berkeley has an awe video experience, so we’ll pop that online so that people can find the link. It’s a beautiful video of awe inspiring scenery around the world, really worth checking out.

P: That’s where sometimes the old Google chrome cast can come in really handy as well. If you can find those images that either recall beautiful moments like whenever I see the Great Barrier Reef, I’m instantly transported back to when I lived in North Queensland went out there for the first time and dove amongst the coral. Or placed that you want to go places that you have a desire to visit. Those, those images can be very important to keeping our focus and changing it if we need to.

M: Absolutely.

P: Okay, well I think we’re out of time, we’ve gone on long today.

M: Yep

P: Thanks for joining us. If you want to hear more, please remember to subscribe and like this podcast.

M: Thanks.

Meet besties Marie and Pete

Marie and Pete

Marie Skelton is an Australian writer, speaker, and change and resiliency expert. She started her career in journalism before working in public affairs and then specialising in organisational and culture change for some of the world’s largest tech and financial services companies, both in Australia and the U.S. She also played volleyball for Australia and on scholarship at a D1 university in the U.S. and she captained the NSW Women’s Volleyball team in the Australian Volleyball League.

Following a motorbike accident that nearly took her life, and leg, she began researching change and resiliency to find out how people cope with major life changes and why some people are really good at dealing with whatever life throws at them, while others struggle. She is passionate about mental health and writes about how to cope with today’s Change Storm and maintain mental wellness.  

Marie and Pete

Peter Furness is just plain awesome. He loves unicorns and champagne. Pete is the owner of Max Remedial, and a qualified remedial therapist and has worked all over the world with professional athletes, dancers, sporting organisations and medical professionals. Peter’s practice is influenced by his interest in Eastern philosophy and he works closely with Chinese and Ayurvedic practitioners, approaching the body from the principles of ancient medicine.

Peter has practiced Asstanga Yoga for 20 years and combines these principles with his approach to health.

Peter was also an award-winning contemporary dancer in Australia and in the UK. 

3 Ways to Bring Inspiration into Your Daily Life

by

Research Shows Finding Inspiration Makes You Happier

At a certain point in our lives, it becomes easy to get stuck in a rut. Somewhere along the way, we run out of novel experiences and daily inspiration.
 
The dandelion in the front yard that so enthralled us as a five-year-old now barely gets a passing glance. The phone conversations with our best friends that used to last hours into the night as teenagers (Every. Single. Day) are now short, sharp and functional. The drive to work has not changed in three years, you’ve been married for ten years. In fact, you could walk around your neighbourhood blindfolded and probably get on OK.
 
Life might be good, but is it inspirational? Are you living your best life? Without new experiences, life can get a bit ho-hum. So, why not do something about it, here are some ideas to help you find inspiration.

Find Inspiration by Doing Something New

  • Sign up for a new course, activity or class. A cheap way to learn something new is to create a new podcast list or create a playlist on Ted Talks. 
  • Break your usual family routine and make it special. You could try making Sunday morning breakfast a special occasion by cooking coloured pancakes (with food dye) with the kids and eating them on a picnic blanket in the backyard. Even better, if you can do an activity near a body water, it’s been proven to make you happier!

  Find Inspiration by Going Somewhere New

  • Take a different route to work one day. Plan for the extra time, and make sure you turn off your devices and put your book away to look at the new suburbs. Keep an eye out for somewhere new you might try for dinner, and while you’re there, look at the menu to find inspiration for meals you could try cooking at home later.
  • Pack a lunch and get on a bus going the opposite direction than you usually take. Get off at the first park you see and have a picnic.
  • If you live in a big city, jump on a Hop On Hop Off bus and explore your own city. Make sure you get the headphones and listen to the commentary – you might learn something about your own city!

  Find Inspiration by Meeting Someone New

  • Join a local group. You could try volunteering, joining a walking group or a book club.
  • If you’re a bit shy, or need to engage on your time, try joining an online community or group. Go to Twitter, Facebook, or Google+ and search for community groups that might interest you. For big ideas and world-changing concepts, you could join the World Economic Forum Book Club.

PS. In no way do I endorse walking around your neighbourhood blindfolded. That would be silly.

Related content: Read Moving On article Awe-inspiring activities to bring wonder to your life, listen to our Podcast: Bringing Awe and Inspiration into Your Life (E4)

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