Happiness for Cynics podcast
In this episode, we revisit the popular episode that was the inspiration for our new book: Self-Care is Church For Non-Believers. We explain how a decline in church attendance and an increase in overall scepticism mean that many of us no longer prioritise self-care activities. Yet, we need to prioritise strong self-care habits more than ever.
As the Dalai Lama said, “I believe the very purpose of our life is to seek happiness. Whether one believes in religion or not, whether one believes in that religion or this religion, we are all seeking something better in life. So, I think, the very motion of our life is towards happiness…”
Transcript
M: You’re listening to the podcast Happiness for Cynics, I’m Marie Skelton.
P: And I’m Peter Furness. And
M&P: We wrote a book!
P: [Laugh] But back to the Podcast. Each week we will bring to you the latest news and research in the world of positive psychology otherwise known as happiness.
M: So if you’re feeling low.
P: Or if you are only satisfied with life but not truly happy with it.
M: Or maybe you just want more!
P: Then this is the place to be!
M: And to take us one step further on our happiness journey, today’s episode is all about the premise behind our new book, Self-Care.
P: Aww.
[Happy Intro Music]
M: So Pete, it’s time to ditch the cynicism and buy in the Self-Care.
P: Woof.
M: [Laugh]
P: I love it when you’re aggressive.
M: [Laugh] So, this is the whole idea behind the podcast but also our book, which was a spin-off of one of our earlier episodes where we looked at Self-Care. And in the end we kind of came to the conclusion that it was something that a lot of people, who were following religions and going to church, were actually already being taught and doing but without knowing it. And a lot of people have been practicing the types of interventions that are scientifically proven to make them happier simply by going to church.
P: There we go. The church people had it right.
M: Now there’s a problem, because less and less people are going to church nowadays.
P: Oh, yes, yes. The decline in church attendance, the decay of our moral fibre’s, the politicians are weeping.
M: The Ministers, Priests.
P: Oh, I thought the politicians were, oh well.
[Laughter]
M: So that was conundrum number one. One thing that’s changing our society. And the second thing is, particularly in Australia, we’re all cynics.
P: Ah, I like this concept. Are Australians truly cynical.
M: We tend to be.
P: Mmm.
M: Australians, we’re a cynical bunch.
P: Yeah, we are cynical, it’s part of our humour. Part of our sarcasm and wit is to be a little bit cynical and not take anything too seriously.
M: Yep, absolutely and we’re well known for it as well.
P: Yep, yep. Very true. But are we cynical to the point of being detrimental to our own happiness?
M: I think that around the world, all people are. So whether or not you buy into Self-Care, a lot of people aren’t practising Self-Care, whether it’s because of cynicism or because life just gets in the way.
P: Mmm.
P: Interesting. So we all need to be a little bit more aware of Self-Care and it may be a little bit more, shall we use the “I word”, indulgent?
M: No, don’t use the “I word”!
P: [Laugh]
M: And this is the second conundrum that we discuss in our book. So the first one is we’re not going to church as often, and that’s due to people not believing in God as much so that that makes sense, right? We’re not saying here at all that you need to believe in God or that you don’t. We’re completely agnostic on the religious front.
P: If God works for you, you go there.
M: Yep, absolutely.
P: Definitely.
M: What we are saying, though, is that if you’re not going to church and therefore doing a lot of these interventions that bring a more positive mindset and more happiness and Well-Being, then you need to do something else.
P: I think it comes down to being spiritual and again. This is a.. This is the cynical viewpoint that comes back about the minute you mentioned Spirituality in a conversation over this dinner table. A lot of people roll their eyes, and go ‘Oh, here we go, here come the angel stories and the crystals and all the dream catchers and all that sort of stuff. There’s this kind of assumption that Spirituality is an indulgence. [Silly voice] “It’s a cosmic energetic transference and trans-mutation.”
M: You might call it that. I would not call it that.
P: I’m not saying I call it that but this is the impression that you get and I’m usually the person at the dinner table starting to quote the Spirituality conversation, or lead the conversation in that direction. And I get this push back a lot from different people and the cynics of the world to come forth and go ‘Oh, that’s just bull shit.’
M: Yeah, I think it is. Yes.
P: [Laugh] And yet, and yet-
M: So back to Self-Care, which I do not call Spirituality.
P: No, I think there’s a link here. I think that if we look at, look at the fact of church attendance and the link between church attendance and what it does to all the Self-Care elements that we clocked.
M: Yep.
P: If you replace that church attendance with Spirituality, Spirituality has a huge factor of the same concept of giving you meditation, making you gracious, making you aware of these Self-Care elements that you put into your life doesn’t necessarily have to be religion.
M: Does it? Again, I’m not spiritual in anyway. So when you say spiritually, what do you replacing God with?
P: Oh, we’re taking, we’re taking religion out of the equation. We’re going with something a little bit more left of field. So we’re going with the people that might be pagans, for example, or practise energetic Healing Arts, those kind of, maybe even more Eastern practises that have gone into that realm of Crystal Reading and Tea Leaf Predicting, those sorts of things.
M: Well each to their own.
P: Exactly.
M: But I wouldn’t say that they cover off Awe, Gratitude, Service to Others, Meditation all of the things that a traditional church does.
P: I’m going to challenge you on that, Marie.
M: So Tea Leaf Reading is an activity in and of enough itself and I wouldn’t say that it teaches you all of those things that a traditional church would cover off.
P: Okay, I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree on that one, because I think it does. There’s a lot of, there’s giving of the self. There’s an investment of another person in Tea Leaf Reading for example, if you read your tea leaves, I’m offering you a space that is more reflective, I’m being gracious towards you. I’m giving you my energy.
M: Is that part of the teaching of a Tea Leaf Reader.
P: Well, I’m not a Tea Leaf Reader so I couldn’t necessarily say that.
M: Well there is the problem with your argument.
P: [Laugh] Well, I hope we get some Tea Leaf Readers writing in, right now.
[Laughter]
M: So, I guess what I’m calling out here is that the particular Spiritual vocations or activities that you’re calling out are very distinct and activities that don’t span the full spectrum that a normal church environment would. So you’re not being given morals and activities and that societal responsibility that comes with a traditional Christian or Muslim church type environment or, or any of the major religions which ask you to not only consider yourself and your own behaviours, but to consider society. Tea Leaf Reading doesn’t have that larger, holistic, life style impact, I would argue, and again back to the whole reason why we’re talking about all of this stuff. Religious or Spirituality, Religion or Spirituality aside, we need to stop calling these things indulgences. Or –
P: That’s what I meant.
M: –crazy crackpot religious ideas, they’re not. They are science backed.
P: So, Self-Care is not an indulgence.
M: It’s not an indulgence, and it’s not for the weird spiritual or religious people. It is so important. And this year we’ve seen such a huge rise in mental health issues across the board, across every demographic all around the world, we’ve had changes to our society, and people aren’t coping.
P: You’ve got a couple of quotes there Marie from the Pew Research Centre and the Edelman Trust Barometer.
M: Or research, yeah definitely.
P: This is about the rise of employees losing their jobs, working mothers find it difficult to balance work and family life. In the World Health Organisation, noting that depression anxiety have an estimated cost to the global economy of $1 trillion a year in lost productivity.
M: It’s becoming an epidemic. Sorry lets, it is an epidemic.
P: Mmm.
M: World Economic Forum has done a lot of work on loneliness.
P: Mmm Hmm.
M: Burnout, last year was a hot topic. Stress and anxiety have been going up for years. Trending upwards we’re just not coping.
P: So we need to invest in Self-Care more on a personal level, everyone needs to address their own Self-Care.
M: Absolutely and we’ve got to stop thinking or isn’t as indulgent.
P: It’s necessary.
M: Why don’t we have an ability for kids who are feeling too stressed out to take a mental health day? Why can’t we give them control to go into a space at their school and say “I’m sorry, Nurse Smith, I just need to take a mental health day today.” Whatever you had on that day, you’ve got to catch it up later. Don’t get me wrong, you’re going to skip out on exams.
P: [Laugh]
M: Because kids can be.. [Laugh] .. a bit crafty.
P: [Laugh] I’m just imaging the line up around the block of the nurses office going ‘Yeah, I want a day off.’
[Laughter]
M: We have a maths test today.
P: You know they’d coordinate that, wouldn’t they? Like you’d be with you fellow classmates like ‘let’s have a mental health day here, the test won’t happen.’ [Laugh]
M: It will happen the next day, right. But again, it’s about giving them control and in particular, teenagers who treading that line between being told what to do 100% of their time and breaking free of that and doing everything as their own decisions and they’re learning to become independent. They need to be given some control over their mental health.
P: Yeah.
P: You were discussing with someone today in a private conversation we were having who’s been rolling out of programme of awareness and the GEM Principal to Educational institutions across Australia.
M: Yeah, absolutely so a great book called The Resilience Project from a guy called Hugh [van Cuylenburg] and his partner now who go around the country, but mostly they’re Melbourne based, go around the country and have been focusing primarily on schools but he’s also worked with Rugby… can’t remember if it’s League or Union.
P: [Laugh]
M: He even gave a talk to Cricket Australia. So he’s been working with elite athletes as well as students and their parents to help them understand three principles.
That’s the GEM Principle:
- Gratitude;
- Empathy; and
- Mindfulness.
And he has done thousands of talks over the last few years and has a great book, really good storyteller. So if you’re kind of not into this, you know, airy fairy, wishy washy,-
P: [Laugh]
M: -spiritual, religious, mumbo jumbo BS, whatever you want to call it, have a look at this book because he’s been teaching halfbacks and you know, these big, burly men about the importance of Gratitude, Empathy and Mindfulness and how to weave them into your day to day life. And he’s got some great stories about how he has really changed the trajectory of some of these guys lives from contemplating suicide to a year or two later truly understanding the value of life and how to be happy.
P: Mm. And that has a social implication as well, because when the individual is feeling empowered and centred and understanding and empathetic, that has a flow on affect to the rest of society. I mean, I’m thinking particularly in terms of sports stars. They have a huge influence over kids. Kids look up to them.
M: Mm hmm.
P: So if you’ve got a child that is looking up to their Rugby/Sports star and he comes out with ‘Yeah I practise Empathy, I practice Mindfulness’, the kids are going to lap that up and that really has a kick in effect in terms of getting children and getting school students to be aware of their emotional Well-Being and their Self-Care on. Maybe that’s where we need to be focusing more of this education is employing these ideas into daily interactions in schools so that it starts to permeate into society on a general level and so you know, we could be looking at 10 to 20 years from now, we’ll be having Mindfulness symposiums that are booked out; And everybody is aware of their 15 minutes of Self-Care per day.
M: I think that we’ve started that journey. So the great news is, we missed it, I missed the bandwagon.
P: [Laugh]
M: I think that a lot of kids today are hearing these messages. So I’ve got a really good friend whose kids do meditation in their school in Canberra. Obviously, Hugh has been doing a lot of work down in Melbourne, but he has also been travelling the country and talking to teachers and students all around the country and a lot of Australian education… Sorry schools got together back in 2012 I think and they started coming together. So I was just reading about Knox Grammar was one of the founding members.
P: That’s being a Sydney private school.
M: Yes, very prestigious, elite, Sydney Boys School and way back in 2012 they got together with a range of other schools around the country to start talking about positive education, which is positive psychology for kids. And they’ve found a drop in bullying and an increase in resiliency in these kids. And ultimately, when you’re talking about mental health, these are the skills we need to give our kids.
P: Absolutely. There’s that flow on effect, of directly, of what we’re talking about trying to get kids to understand it so that has that flow on effect.
M: So the kids are getting it, nowadays. They’re starting to. It’s not across every school in every state, and it’s not part of the curriculum. It is definitely an add on for a lot of schools. However, a lot of people have left school, the majority of the population aren’t in school and so people that are your age and my age, without mentioning age. We’ve missed the boat and a lot of us need to catch up on this stuff and change our mindset about it.
P: I think changing our mindset is the important message here. Self-Care is not indulgence.
M: Quite simply, we have to a better job of looking after ourselves and the Self-Care activities that we used to practise at church like Kindness, Service to Others and Gratitude are proven, scientifically proven to help.
P: There’s that science. [Laugh]
M: This book is not about religion. It is about saying that those activities that we used to do a church, if you’re no longer going to church, again no judgement, what are you doing to bring them into your life? And what habits?
P: What’s your process? Where’s your ceremony with your 10 minutes of each day or one hour of each week? What do you do that is Self-Care for you? That is conscious Self-Care. Not just going to the gym, not just spending some time on your own in the park.
M: Mm, Hmm.
P: It’s got to be dedicated real time that actually informs your conscious and subconscious mind.
M: Absolutely. And I think Stephen Covey talked about if you don’t prioritise it, then it’s not a priority. So this is about making Self-Care a priority, so schedule it in.
P: Yep.
M: If you put your work into, like if you’re holding 9 to 5 or 8 to 6 or whatever it is that you’re holding for work or whatever your work schedule is nights and weekends, et cetera, and you’re setting aside time to pick up groceries, you’re sitting aside time to commute, you’re setting aside time hopefully to exercise, hopefully getting your eight hours of sleep.
P: Yep, [laugh].
M: You know, look at your calendar and take a look at where you’re spending your time because a lot of people say ‘I don’t have time.’
P: Mmm, make time.
M: Don’t even make time. Look at where you’re spending your time, so I will challenge you. Anyone who says they don’t have time.
P: Ok, that’s fair.
M: And I would say that nine times out of ten you are still spending time in front of the TV, you’re spending time on social media and on your phone, and there are times where you could redirect 20 minutes here or there, 40 minutes in your week, away from another activity that you think is actually helping you to regenerate and to relax and whole other topic on social media detoxing and the rest of it, because it doesn’t. Mindlessly tuning out in from the TV and social media as we’ve seen, actually adds more cognitive load to brain. Where as going for a 20 minute walk in the sun at lunchtime is so good for you for a variety of reasons, and that is true Self-Care.
P: True.
M: So what this boils down to is, you know, habit making. So being aware of where you’re spending your time and making sure that you’re setting aside time to look after yourself and again a lot of this starts with just being aware of your own feelings. And if you have a morning routine of getting in some exercise and then you shower and have a good breakfast and off you go and you commute and have a salad for lunch and you come home and… Like if that’s your routine, but you wake up that day feeling like crap, you might decide that it’s okay not to go the gym that day.
P: Yep.
M: Be nice to yourself, or that evening might be take out night instead of Friday.
P: Yes.
M: Alright, because you’re just not feeling up to cooking. So be nice to yourself or the flip side of that is have a salad instead of something greasy.
P: [Laugh]
M: Be nice to yourself.
P: It’s all about the interpretation.
[Laughter]
M: Yeah, but whatever it is that you feel you need in the moment, find a way to give yourself what you need as well and Self-Care again is about being forgiving and flexible and understanding yourself better and giving your body and your mind what they need.
P: Mmm. I like that. It’s a nice point to wrap it up on.
M: I think so.
P: [Laugh]
M: Shall we wrap it up? Well, our book! It is now available on amazon.
P: Yay!!
M: We didn’t even talk about the book.
P: This covers a lot of what the book is about though.
M: Yep.
P: It’s our little handy, very small little book, Marie.
M: It is, it’s a pocket book.
P: You could read a book in an hour, talked about all this sort of stuff. And the little things that you can do and the elements to be considerate of when putting together your own Self-Care package.
M: Absolutely. And we’ve got some great tips in the back of every section. So do you remember what we cover in the book, Pete?
P: Yes, I do…
M: Can you open the book? [Laugh]
So we cover social Connection, practising Kindness, practising Gratitude, Service to Others, practising Mindfulness, practising Forgiveness and Experiencing Awe and amongst those things we talked about the science, we talk about easy things that you could do in any of those categories to bring them into your life. And all you need to do is pick one or two out of the book and just add them into your month add them into your calendar and plan for them.
P: Do a 10 minute session on Mindfulness.
M: Yep, absolutely.
P: Ten minute session on Awe, which is really easy.
M: Absolutely. So our book is available on Amazon. It is called Self-Care is Church for Non-Believers.
P: The little book of happiness. [Giggle]
M: And help us out if you can, and give us a review on Amazon or Good Reads, that would be a great help. All right, well, that’s it for today.
P: If you want to hear more, please remember to subscribe and like our podcast. You can find us at www.marieskelton.com, which is a site about balance, happiness and resilience, also send in questions and proposed topics for discussion.
M: And, if you like our little show, we would love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out or a comment or rating on our book would be helpful too.
P: Until next time.
M & P: Choose Happiness!
[Happy Exit Music]
Related content: Read Moving On article It’s Time to Ditch the Cynicism and buy Into Self-Care, listen to our podcast Self-Care is Church for Non-Believers (E17)
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