When it’s OK to not be OK (E25)

Happiness for Cynics

In this week’s episode, Marie and Pete talk about when it’s OK to not be OK, and the importance of taking the time to process negative emotions. They discuss the Kubler-Ross grief curve and how people move through the stages of grief and change.

Transcript

M: You’re listening to the podcast happiness for cynics. I’m Marie Skelton, a writer and speaker focused on change and resilience.

P: And I’m Peter Furness a purveyor of fun sizes, a posh motor head and budgie smuggler. Each week we will bring to you the latest news and research in the world of positive psychology, otherwise known as happiness.

M: So if you’re feeling low.

P: Or if you’re only satisfied with life but not truly happy with it.

M: Or maybe you just want more.

P: Then this is the place to be.

M: Have you been through the corona virus emotional rollercoaster? Or maybe you’re worried about finances or feeling lonely, or you’ve recently lost someone who’s dear to you.

P: If so, you’re in the right place because today’s episode is all about when it’s OK to not be okay.

[Happy Intro Music]

M: So, Pete, today we’re talking about when it’s OK to not be okay, and I love that you sent me a message saying, we need to do something that’s not all about happiness and talk about this topic because it is so important.

P: Really important. It’s interesting when I sent the message was like ‘Happiness isn’t everything!’

[Laughter]

M: Were you not ok when you sent it?

P: No, I was fine. It’s funny because this came about through doing one of our very first episodes when we were looking into what happiness actually was and I came across these quotes, which I seem to have mislaid now so I can’t quote the source.

M: I’ve got a quote, you keep going with this one in the meantime.

P: [Laugh] It’s in a book hanging on the rack in my..

M: We’ll do another episode.

[Laughter]

P: This whole concept that sometimes happiness doesn’t serve you. It’s not great to be happy 100% of the time. And there are certain situations in life where you don’t need to tap into your happy self because it doesn’t serve you well.

M: Absolutely, I could not agree more.

P: Well you’re the natural cynic. So you know, you spent how many years of your life..

M: Sometimes you just want to shit on other people.

P: [Laugh!] I know let’s, of course we’re going to throw poo at him.

M: Look I’m 100% with you here, we’re all human as well, and sometimes you don’t want to be happy. You want to sit and wallow in your pain or your trauma or your sadness or anger or whatever it is. And as long as there’s an end to it and as long as you’re not pulling everyone around with you down you into that spiral, I think go for it. Go punch a punching bag or watch rom coms [romantic comedies] or cry all Sunday.

P: I got told to kick a dog.

M: Oh! No!

P: I was having a bad and a friend came over and goes, ‘go and kick a dog you’ll feel so much better’

M: No!

P: I would never do that.

M: We are 100% against that on this podcast. Just remember listeners that if we have opinions that vary from yours that’s a moment for learning and growth. You don’t have to hate us.

P: [Laugh] Believe me, we have a lot of learning to do right here.

M: [Laugh] We’re learning too. So I have a great quote from the probably most famous cynicist? Pessimist of all time Friedrich Nietzsche which is “That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.” So what I do want to say is that I agree with you. It’s okay to not be okay. I do also want to say that there’s a whole lot of research out there about the positive benefits off going through tough times.

P: Oh completely, you learn lessons that garner you and take you into your next issue 10 years down the track and you can go ‘I’ve have been here before and know what this is’ And you recognise stuff as it comes up and you go ‘Right, I know where this is heading let’s go’ and you’re ready for it.

M: So it’s not about minimising or eliminating bad or sad moments in our lives. It’s about acknowledging them, experiencing the pain, but knowing that you’re not alone and that it won’t last. And eventually when the time is right starting to move forward.

P: Definitely.

M: And if you’ve had a very significant trauma or moment in your life, when you do move forward, often times that could be a truly transformative moment.

P: You can talk about that, can’t you Marie?

M: I think so.

[Laughter]

P: Just a little.

M: Just a little, yeah and look that’s always the whole premise for this podcast and my blog and a lot of the work and research that I’ve done. The book that I’m writing right now, and I’m researching and interviewing people from all over the world to hear their trauma stories, sometimes their stories of grief and the commonality across most of these stories. A huge percentage is that once you get through it, they would mostly not ever take it back. And they feel like it shaped who they are.

P: It does yeah, it gives you tools. It gives you tools to cope because life isn’t always handed to you in the best packaging.

M: Yeah, it makes you grateful for the life you have.

P: Exactly.

M: And there’s a whole body of research on this as well. But for me personally, nearly dying in my thirties has really made me question what’s important in life. And I had been raised in a school of thought, which kind of goes like this. Here’s the script:

Do well in school, go to university do well there. Get a good job with a good company. Reputable job. Get a partner, have some kid’s. Have a house.

P: White picket fence?

M: All of that, yep.

P: Dog?

M: Move up in your career and eventually retire with enough money saved in the bank that you can fund a decent level of living.

P: Right.

M: Now that was success to a lot of our parents, a lot of our parent’s generation, right?

P: Yep

M: And that’s what they taught us and nowhere in there do they talk about happiness.

P: Yeah

M: For me having, again, nearly died and nearly losing my leg and spending a lot of time in a lot of pain, like months, months of surgeries and years of rehab. I’m questioning that model, I really am. As are a lot of other people who came to it on their own, I feel like it was the biggest secret no one ever told me that. And that’s why I have invited you to be here because you cottoned on pretty early in your life.

P: God knows why.

M: [Laugh]

P: [Laugh] I don’t know why. I just decided to go the non-logical route, I think, and I went into the alternative spaces very early. So maybe that was why. And I think that’s the thing I got exposed to alternative ideals, alternative lines of thought. My mother thought I was an absolute lunatic. [Laugh]

M: Yeah, definitely, definitely.

There is a lot of research and there’s nothing special about my story. In that sense, I had a major trauma and I’ve come out happier and more grateful for what I have than I went in.

P: But it’s going through that process of trauma, and I think that’s the space that we’re talking about today is that it’s okay to be in trauma and to be experiencing a really crap time as long as you can keep perspective on that. And I think the big key is not dwelling in that trauma and letting it re-inform you and re-inform you and staying stuck in that empty part of the cycle, there’s got to be an upswing.

M: I think that you can be in a really bad place as long as there is always some momentum to move you through the fazes. So we’ve spoken about the Kubler Ross Grief cycle –

P: Have we? I don’t think we’ve spoken about that yet? [Laugh]

M: Anyway, It is now a widely used resource for grief counsellors, but it’s also been repurposed by the change community and change management community and corporate to go through the emotions that people feel when they experience major change.

P: Yes.

M: So you going through denial, anger, depression, bargaining and acceptance.

P: I like the bargaining faze.

M: It doesn’t get you anywhere generally but the point is that grief isn’t linear so you can go through it and come back at any one point. But also as long as you’re moving through it, then it is really beneficial to process your emotions. That’s the time you need to grieve and to be sad and to be angry and to feel hard done by.

P: I’m going to pull you up there just a second Marie. Let’s talk about the non-linear aspect of grief.

M: Sure, so if you look at the grief cycle, denial, anger and depression are the first three. So if you were experiencing grief, your first and most immediate gut reaction might be, ‘I don’t believe you.’

P: Yep

M: If you heard horrible news about a loved one. You might move pretty quickly into

Anger, ‘This isn’t fair. Why, them? Why me? Life sucks. And then you might slide into depression quite easily, which is just a feeling of grief and sadness.

P: Desperation?

M: Absolutely any of those normal and to be expected when you’re dealing with these horrible life events –

P: And do those three aspects.. sorry.

M: – But you might then go back to anger.

P: I was just about to ask, you keep circling around.

M: But now the point is, though, to keep moving not to get stuck and of the 50 or so people I’ve interviewed. One is stuck, still stuck, and is still in that. Why me? And these are people that you would never wish this stuff on your enemy.

P: Of course.

M: The person I’m referring to had a stroke. He was healthy, non-smoker, didn’t really drink, a whole life ahead of him. [Had a] stroke that impacted his ability to perform his job and really it’s been 10 years with a lot of rehab. His loved ones left him. All of the things that could go wrong, have gone wrong. And you can’t pursue the job of his dreams that he was actually pursuing. And has really had to reset his life, and you can understand, with all of these people how it could be so easy to get stuck in that anger or that sadness or bargaining or any of these, denial, could get stuck in that wanting for something that never will be moment. And that’s where unfortunately, time keeps moving on, and you’re doing yourself a disservice if you can’t find a way to move forward.

P: Is that where we come to the point of acceptance? Is that where acceptance comes in?

M: That’s what we want to get to.

P: So acceptance is the first stage that we want to get to.

M: It’s the last stage before you move on.

P: Right, so we’ve gone through the grief cycle after we’ve done the bargaining. Let’s talk a bit more about the bargaining. I’m interested in this.

M: This is if you were religious, where you might bargain with God, ‘bring them back and I will be a better Christian or why couldn’t you take me rather than my child or like this is really difficult again we’re not counsellors.

P: No.

M: So this is potentially triggering content that we’re talking about here. Or if you were made redundant, you might go to your boss and say ‘I really need this. I don’t want have any savings, what can I do?’

P: ‘Take me back.’

M: Yeah, ‘what can I do to make you keep me? So it’s the begging part off this process that generally doesn’t get you anywhere.

P: No.

M: Many people don’t get the benefit they want out of the bargaining.

P: Definitely. And on that, does that naturally lead into acceptance because that gets to… is that the lowest of the low points? When you start bargaining?

M: Depression is.

P: Depression is the lowest.

M: And the good thing about bargaining is that you try and solve [things].

P: That shift, you’re coming on the upswing.

M: Exactly.

P: So if you’re bargaining, you’re doing well.

M: You’re taking action.

P: Ah yes.

M: It’s a bit misguided often.

P: But you’re looking for solutions and I think I’m gonna jump in here. That’s a really important perspective to jump into because we’re going to talk more about tips later but it’s about finding another way and it’s not about focusing on the end goal. It’s about focusing on where I’m at now, and how can I make that one step on improvement?

M: Yep and as you mentioned we’re going to talk about tips in a little bit, but it’s really important to note that you need to sit in anger, sadness or depression and all of these fazes for long as you need to sit there.

P: And that’s acknowledgment?

M: Yep, absolutely.

P: It’s interesting. I went through that with my father when he died. It was very quick, thankfully and then all of a sudden I was in charge of the funeral and I was like ‘Oh okay, I’ve got to do this you know, choosing the coffin, choosing what he would wear in the coffin’ and things like that. It was amazingly freeing because I didn’t have to focus on my grief and my anger and all that different stuff and that came later.

M: Did you just defer it?

P: Yes, definitely. I chose the time when I was going to do that and I ran into the mountains and spent some time on my own and went through those little stages. But there was definitely sadness and so forth. It was very interesting, that came after everything was done.

M: I’ve seen a good friend of mine do that as well when her Dad passed she went to organizing mode and it wasn’t till after the funeral that she actually had time to grieve, fully grieve and let herself go.

P: Exactly, but it is those, those moments of going, ‘I’m going to feel the grief and I’m going to feel the anger and I’m going to feel the depression and do that.’ I chose to do that in a very private space. And then it’s being okay in those moments going, this is, this is, excuse my language, this is shit.

M: Yep

P: And I’m going to sit here. I’m going to cry, and I’m gonna let it out.

M: And it’s okay.

P: Because you need-

M: It’s ok to not be ok.

P: – to experience those emotions because that’s I think that’s part of the acknowledgement curve is if you haven’t been there and felt it, then you haven’t acknowledged that ‘Yes, I’ve done grief and anger, and I’ve done the depression. Now I’m going to choose to start moving forward. Let’s, let’s do some bargaining.’

M: It is so important to process.

P: Yes.

M: And this model shows the healthy way that most people process and everyone processes differently as we said you might skip a phase. You might never go through anger. But these are the general –

P: indicators.

M: Yep. So you’ve got to do the grieving, you’ve got to do the hard yards to get through it otherwise you hold it.

P: I think also, if you know the stages that are coming and if someone has said to you you’re going to feel angry, you’re going to feel anxious. So when it happens, you like. OK, I’m in the anger phase. I’m here. I’m ready.

M: Or you might, you might feel these.

P: Oh yeah, true. But I think when those when those emotions come up, then you say to yourself, ‘Oh I’m here now. Okay, I’ve got this, all right, this is going to happen. I’m going, I’m going to enjoy it.

M: [Laughter]

P: It’s kind of like you invest in it.

M: Alright. We are starting to run out of time. Let’s move to hints and tips for our listeners.

P: Ah, yes. Okay, done.

M: So the Lighthouse Treatment Centre in California has a list of eight things for dealing with grief and loss in recovery, and a lot of this applies. We’re not just talking about grief and loss, necessarily. But we are talking about any reason that you could say, I’m not ok. One and two are about:

1. Acknowledging your emotions; and

2. Talking about your pain.

P: Very, very important. Acknowledging that you’re having negative thoughts is one of the most important first steps in any process. If you’re going to have that cup of tea and go, I’m not sad. Then you’re never going to get past that first hurdle. You’ve got to acknowledge that. Yes, I’m feeling really low, and I feel like I could cry at the drop of a hat.

M: And that’s ok.

P: It’s important. It’s so important.

M: Ok, so moving on number three;

3. If needed, talk about your cravings.

P: Hhmm Interesting.

M: So what do you go to when you’re in a bad place?

P: What’s your reach?

M: Is it alcohol, is it sex, drugs?

P: Yep. And we’ve seen a lot of that with the Corona virus issues, so many people have turned to their cravings to try to satiate their needs.

M: Chocolate.

P: Yeah, all that stuff. But knowing why you do it is important.

M: Martinis.

P: Yeah, Martinis are in a class of their own.

M: Acknowledge them and give them a name and again it’s just about self-awareness.

P: It is.

M: Number four;

4. Use your time creatively.

So part of healing and moving forward is about starting to try.

P: Hhmm. That’s that upswing on the bell curve isn’t it? You’re starting to take control again.

M: Yeah and something that really can help with moving forward is using your time creatively in things like dance or painting or sculpting anything that gets, writing, that gets your creative juices flowing, that you can get lost in an activity is shown to be a little bit helpful in moving forward.

P: Again, it’s an externalisation as well, if you’re doing sculpture or painting that wonderful idea of being Jackson Pollock and just throwing a shitload of paint at the canvas and getting it all out, its externalising, your emotions, it’s putting them out rather than having them in.

M: All right next one, number five;

5. Do something for your loved one.

Now this is more specifically for people who are going through grief. And this involves things like helping to plan for the funeral or writing a poem or putting flowers on a grave, helping the family, clearing out wardrobes can be really tough.

P: Which can be amazingly cathartic at the same time.

M: Yeah.

Okay, so number six;

6. Understand that grief is not linear.

And we’ve spoken about this before. Number seven;

7. Take care of your physical health.

It is so important and we’ve said this a million times on this podcast. That you have a habit of physical activity, and so when things go wrong, you keep that habit going.

P: You cling to it.

M: You can’t actually, when things go wrong, decide to institute that new habit of exercising. That’s just not the time to get the benefits from it.

P: Hhmm, no.

M: So taking care of your physical health and last one, number eight;

8. Taking care of your mental health.

P: That involves doing some of the hard work that we’ve talked about on the podcast. Those exercises and crazy things that the cynic just goes ‘why am I writing about my feelings?!’

[Laughter]

P: It’s so important.

M: But also just a little bit of self-love and forgiveness and care-

P: And reflection

M: – can go a long way. Forgive yourself for not making it to the gym, five times this week or three. Forgive yourself not eating healthy all the time. But look for opportunities to maybe pamper or spoil yourself as well if you’re not in a great emotional state.

P: And it’s also about acknowledging what you have done. The woman that I was reading about Melody Wilding, who is a professor off psychotherapy in Michigan. She talks about focusing on the progress, not on the perfection, so focusing on how much you’ve done to contribute to your own progress and what you’re actually getting to. It’s not about getting to the end point. It’s not like I’m not at having one thousand dollars in my bank account, but I’m making good decisions about my money this week, and I’m not choosing not to go and spend two thousand dollars on something else, which is going to impede my progress to that thousand dollars of savings. It’s a different perspective, and she also talks about recognising that you’re on the path.

So giving yourself a little pat on the back because you’ve taken that first positive step back towards whatever this point is that you need to find and I think that’s a really important aspect when you’re at the bottom of the bell curve is when you take that first step, give yourself a pat, give yourself a high five and go ‘I’m looking after myself.’

M: Absolutely, and taking that step is so important. This is about getting yourself out.

P: You can talk about that one Marie.

M: Yep, and thanks to you.

P: No, no, no, no, it was you all you.

M: Sometimes it takes someone else to give you a bit of a push.

P: [Laugh] Thrust!

M: Alright, well I think that’s all we have time for today.

P: Thanks for joining us today. If you want to hear more, please remember to subscribe and like the podcast. And remember, you can find us at www.marieskelton.com, which is a site about how to find balance, happiness and resilience in your life, including some really practical tips and resources to get you started on your happiness journey, until next time.

P: Stay happy. Bye.

M: Bye.

[Happy Exit Music]