Happiness for Cynics podcast
This week Marie and Pete discuss how COVID has impacted our happiness levels, and has taught us how to be happy in spite of adversity.
Transcript
[Happy intro music -background]
M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.
P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.
M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.
P: Plus, sometimes I think we’re kind of funny.
[Intro music fadeout]
M: Okay, so today we are looking at what COVID has taught us about how to be happy.
P: Who would think that COVID would be linked to our happiness levels.
M: Well, you know, teaching us things about happiness. I think that this is the big wake up call that we’ve been needing around the world.
P: To make us focus on a mental health, just a global pandemic.
M: Well, this is the best… You couldn’t do this in a scientific study; Make some people get a disease and others not just to see what happens to their mental health.
P: Laugh! Yes. The ethical reasoning is mind boggling.
M: Laugh, exactly. It is the biggest and best way to look at resilience and mental health. Obviously, you would never wish this on anyone.
P: Of course not, no.
M: But what we can learn from it is extensive.
P: Well, this is very true. And this is what happened after the 1917 [1918-19] Spanish flu experiences. The society learned a lot.
M: Yep.
P: They learned a lot of lessons on how to cope with bacterial infections and control mechanisms and –
M: Washing your hands.
P: Yeah, all those basic reminders, I guess.
M: Yeah.
P: So yeah, yeah. I guess it’s time to learn the lessons.
M: Absolutely. And we’ve been going through it and feeling it, and I really hope that this is the kick up the butt that the world needs to really start to focus on well being.
P: Laugh. Well, if we’re looking at this report, it would seem that way.
M: Yes.
P: We are looking at the World Happiness Report – Laughter!
M: Laugh.
P: A cat just flew across my computer.
M & P: Laughter.
M: I was going to lock them out of the room.
P: Laugh.
M: I didn’t… I’m learning my lesson.
P & M: Laughter.
P: Okay, so today we’re actually looking at the second World Happiness Report.
M: Oh, no!
P: No, there’s more.
M: Many, many of them.
P: This is our second, laugh.
M: Yes. So, when we first kicked off last year, we did an episode on the Global Happiness Report findings and the 2021 Global Happiness Report Findings have just been released in time for World Happiness Day. So last week for us.
P: Mmm hmm.
M: And we’re able now to look at all of that data from the previous decade and compare it to this year’s data (from 2020) and really look at how COVID has impacted our happiness levels around the world. So it’s a great tool for us to look at what’s changed.
P: Yes.
M: And so there’s a lot that hasn’t changed. Let’s just start there.
P: Yes.
M: So Finland again forth year in a row.
P: Oh the Finnish, they’re all running around, clapping their little, what do they wear there? Wearing clogs?
M: Yeah, I don’t know.
P: They’ve got little bootie things.
M: Ok. I just see them as being very cold.
P: Laugh.
M: So, this report is compiled by the U.N. Sustainable Development solution, and it’s an annual report, and it ranks about 150,149 countries based on:
- Gross domestic product per person. So how much money do you have and all the well-being indicators that go with having some money.
- Healthy life expectancy. So how long you going to live
- And the opinions of residents.
So it asks respondents to indicate on scale of 1 to 10 how much social support they feel they have if something goes wrong, their freedom to make their own life choices. That’s about autonomy, their sense of how corrupt their society is and how generous they are.
P: Oooh.
M: We’ve spoken a lot about generosity and gratitude and things like that as well.
P: Yes.
M: So the top 10 countries in 2021.
P: De de de de! We have on top,
1. Finland! Yay!
M: Wooh!
P: Do we have the Finnish National Anthem? Can we play it now?
[Finnish National Anthem – 10 second exert]
P: Laugh, followed very closely by,
2. Denmark; and
3. Switzerland.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: It’s the Scandinavians, they always seem to be on top. And then
4. Iceland.
P: Oddly enough, all the core countries.
5. The Netherlands.
6. Norway; and
7. Sweden.
P: Again, we’re staying up around Scandinavians.
8. Luxembourg.
9. New Zealand!
M: Whoop, whoop!
P: Go the Kiwis! And
10. Austria.
P: Random, Austria?
M: Well again, not very far from all the other countries up there.
P: I guess so, yeah.
M: And so, as we said before, it’s the fourth year that Finland has come out on top.
P: Mmm, yeah. They must be doing something right.
M: Some other noteworthy countries. The US, which was at number 13, five years ago, has slipped from 18th to19th place, so they’ve been slowly declining over the last half decade, and we really have seen a huge decline in the South American countries.
P: Yeah.
M: So, Argentina, Brazil, Colombia and Mexico all became significantly less happy in 2020.
P: We’ll talk about the reasons why about that later.
M: Yep.
P: But interesting, the Latino countries are not doing so well.
M: No, not at all. And a lot of Asian countries are, just sort of in the mix in the middle. But definitely they’re not leading the pack. It is Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, The Netherlands, Norway and Sweden.
P: Hmm.
M: They’re all doing an amazing job and New Zealand.
P: Yeah, although I do find it interesting. I was flicking through the report. They did say that the Asia Pacific region is one of the top regions in terms of dealing with the COVID response.
M: Yes, and that is a factor that we’ll come to in a little bit. Is how countries have dealt with COVID.
P: Yes.
M: So it is worth saying, though, that you would think that happiness levels may have dropped in 2020.
P: I would… yes. Overall, I would say yes. I think some people have actually fared well, but you’d have to put it on an aggregate and I would say on average yes.
M: So not substantially in anyway. So, the numbers are still pretty consistent with the year before. So that is that I thought that was a bit surprising.
P: Mmm.
M: There was, however, periodic dips.
P: Yep.
M: So when everyone first went into lock down, women in particular didn’t fare particularly well, but overall, lots of people didn’t fare well for that moment.
P: Mmm.
M: But if you look at the full year and obviously these questions are looking much more broadly at life satisfaction rather than that moment in time, how are we faring today? Overall, people were faring about the same as in 2019 for happiness levels, which I thought was a bit surprising.
P: Yeah. Look, sometimes having issues and having a challenging time of it actually makes you relatively more understanding and grateful for what you do have.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: So that in and of itself, we talked about gratefulness a lot. Making you feel grateful is going to make you feel a bit more contented and happy because you get away from the materialistic products and the big, flashy cars and the overseas trips and it comes down to ‘ah, I have people around me that I’m enjoying and I have food in my belly and they can enjoy my home, home, lifestyle and things like that.
M: Mmm hmm. Definitely.
P: So your daily happiness might actually go up because you’re more appreciative.
M: Well, there’s this and we’ve spoken about this before. Definitely if you have experienced trauma.
P: Mmm.
M: A lot of people bounce back and are even happier than pre-trauma.
P: Yes, the relative effect.
M: Yep. So that’s not what we’re going to talk about today.
P & M: Laugh!
P: Tangent!
M: But there are six lessons that we can take from the results, and why don’t you kick us off?
P: Oooh. Older people are happier!
M: Nice.
P: Go the silver hair-set!
M & P: Laugh.
P: Those wearing glasses and bald. Well done, ladies and gentlemen. The age profile of happiness before the pandemic struck, they were saying, was roughly a U shaped curve.
M: Yep.
P: People began their adult lives in a cheerful way and they became less happy in middle age.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: And then they got happy again at 50, and then if they got into the senior years, into the seventies and nineties bracket, they fell back into the doldrums. But now they’re saying, particularly the UK, which is an interesting one, that the pattern is on upward slope and that older people are actually a little bit happier.
M: And the young are less satisfied right now as well, aren’t they?
P: Yeah.
M: So it’s more like a line rather than a U shape.
P: Which is… is that a generational thing?
M: Well, the U shape has been around and being discussed for a while now.
P: Mmm.
M: And what we’re saying is during the pandemic, rather than a U shape and starting happy our younger generations have dropped, but our older generations have gotten happier, which is a bit counterintuitive because the older generations the most risk of dying from COVID.
P: I guess so, but there’s a relative understanding there as-well, and maybe there’s a relative resilience in there with the older generation and let’s face it, if they’re if they’re around the nineties then they went through the Depression and the post war era and stuff like that. So maybe those lessons that they learned in those days have come back to serve them well in a global pandemic such as COVID.
M: Or maybe they’re happy that they’re not the ones that have passed.
P: Very true.
M: Maybe they’re grateful for their lives.
P: Yeah maybe.
M: So the next one or next lesson to be learned is that countries in which governments are seen to have not done as well with COVID have slipped.
P: This doesn’t surprise me, laugh.
M: Yes, and the UK and the US are the two biggest examples of this.
P: Oh, huge!
M: So, one of the co-authors of the report, Columbia University economist Jeffrey Sachs said, quote “We find year after year that life satisfaction is reported to be happiest in the social democracies of northern Europe. People feel secure in those countries, so trust is high. The government is seen to be credible and honest, and trust in each other is high.”
P: Mmm.
M: Also, people’s perception of how their country was handling the pandemic contributed to an overall rise in well-being.
P: Hmm.
M: So several Asian countries fared better than they had in last year’s rankings; China moved to 84th place to… from 94th [to 84th]. So they moved up 10 spots because of their handling of the pandemic.
P: Yeah, wow.
M: We assume. And countries like Finland, Iceland, New Zealand, who I have to say I kind of had an advantage if you’re an island, laugh.
P: If you’re a small island, you [just] close the borders. I mean, even Australia, we fared well because of that fact, we could close off the borders and say ‘sorry you’re not coming across.’
M: Absolutely.
P: We are our own little place down here and put the fences up.
M: Yes, absolutely. So, countries which have managed COVID and managed keep COVID levels low, have happier residents.
P: Yeah, I’d easily believe that when you’ve got faith in the higher power, especially when you’re relying on them in an international crisis. You’re relying on leadership. And even if you don’t necessarily agree with the leadership before that situation happens, if there is a response, if there is communication and clear communication and daily steps being made, then yes, you would have more faith in the powers that be and that’s got to make you feel more secure and you know the hierarchy of needs, we need security it’s number 3?
M: Yep… Oh don’t ask me.
P: Talk to Maslow, I know who he is now.
M & P: Laugh.
P: That little pyramid, laugh.
M: So, look I think that’s a bit of a no-brainer the countries that are having lower death rates and lower infection rates are happier.
P: Mmm. Maybe that’s a thing about the Latino countries. I mean you look at the Brazil example of the government there just how, how tense it is with the entire population and possibly also with Colombia and Mexico.
M: Yeah, so we mentioned before Argentina, Brazil, Colombia and Mexico have all dropped.
P: Mmm.
M: Definitely.
P: Staying with the country theme let’s move on to number three. Countries with a strong capitalist culture are not faring well. Down with capitalism.
M: Mmm.
P: Is this the anarchists making a play?
M & P: Laugh!
P: I’m expecting costumes to come out with the, you know, V for Vendetta.
M: Laugh.
P: That’s going to start, wearing red.
Your favourite author, Sonja Lyubomirsky, professor of psychology at the University of California at Riverside, has noted that, for example, in the American culture, one of the capitalist leaders of the world, prizes of and big signs of wealth, big houses, big cars, multiple cars, they rely on this more in America than in other countries and that leads her to assume, I’m going to say assume or to cite that ‘material things don’t make us happy.’
M: It’s a fair assumption, but it’s back by research. Absolutely.
P: Oh, well we believe it then, laugh.
M: We do.
P: Laugh!
M: We’ve spoken about this before, material things don’t make us happy.
P: Yep.
M: So, if you look at the top 10, they’re all strong social democracies. Whereas capitalist culture, like in the US, where having big cars and blingy jewellery and flashy jobs and all the rest of it is far more prized, they’re not as happy.
P: It’s a temporary happiness that they get from those items. That long term happiness is lacking.
M: Yep.
P: Nothing like a crisis to make light of the holes that are in your fabric as it were.
M: Absolutely.
P: Ooh, I’m feeling allegorical.
M & P: Laugh.
M: Definitely. One of the other lessons we can learn from the report is that inequality continues to impact happiness.
P: I must say, I’m a bit surprised by this one.
M: Well, we’re spoken about how humans compare themselves to others, right?
P: Yep.
M: And how this can impact your happiness and so if you look at your neighbour and they seem to have everything.
P: Mmm hmm.
M: It’s really hard to be happy when you feel like you have nothing.
P: This is the social dilemma, the Facebook, Twitter, Instagram thing, yeah.
M: Absolutely, that makes it worse.
P: The wall of comparisons.
M: And you’re seeing other people through their social media, and it’s a fake life that you’re seeing.
P: The best moments.
M: Yeah, exactly. Not the real moments. Well, young people and women have been disproportionately impacted by COVID. So many have lost their jobs. In America, for instance, the unemployment rate for people between 20 to 24 shot up from 6.3% in February to 25.6% –
P: Wow!
M: – 2 months later.
P: Wow! That’s huge.
M: Now, last month had dropped back to about 10% but that’s a huge drop and for 1/4 of a demographic to be out of work that’s a huge impact.
P: Yep, and that’s gonna have a long term reaching effects into the…
M: Superannuation.
P: Yeah, everything as they get older, definitely.
M: Definitely. And then in a lot of richer countries or more well off countries. Women have also had a particularly hard time, so they often wake in sectors like hospitality, which have been shut down.
P: Mmm.
M: Also, when schools closed, many were stuck with more than their fair share of childcare responsibilities.
P: Yep, mmm hmm.
M: And so the inequality that we’ve seen because of COVID, particularly for women and young people but also across the board, has been really tough for a lot of people to bear. And looking at other generations or sexes or other demographics and seeing that you’ve been impacted when others haven’t is really tough and really hits your happiness levels.
P: Mmm.
M: So it’ll be really interesting to look, I find this this aspect fascinating, looking into how inequality is impacting certain demographics and looking at the systemic ways that our governments can help to address some of this inequality because this is an only a COVID issue.
P: No, this is gonna be my point is that this happens a lot when we have financial issues across national scales. Same thing happened in the GFC, a lot of women left work, left the workplace and went back to Home Care/Childcare and things like that and their often much more transient in nature in regards to employment.
M: Mmm hmm.
P: And we know we know this, and it’s interesting that this trend has still stayed.
M: Yep, and the question is, how is that impacting their long-term happiness, their life, happiness? And I think COVID’s finally shining a light on that because, as we’ve said before, happiness, impacts your well-being, your mental-health, physical health, your longevity.
P: Mmm.
M: It has so many wide sweeping impacts, and we’re actually seeing through this report the impact of losing your job or being unequally impacted by a global pandemic or a global financial crisis, or whatever issue of the day we’re dealing with is going to impact people unfairly.
P: Mmm. There is a counterpoint to that argument, which I’m going to throw at you Marie, and I’m getting my shields up ready to deflect, laugh.
M: I’m ready, I’m ready to fight!
P: Laugh!
M: I’ve got my gloves on.
P: I may get hit here people, laugh. The counterpoint of that argument is that women are much more willing to surrender their career choices -hear me out- and go back to child care and home care and things like that, possibly because it is a social expectation that’s placed upon them. But I would like to see the data on how many women make that choice because they do want to be happier. They make the choice to return to not being in a career and prefer to support the other person. I’m wondering if that is part of the equation.
M: I think there are some women who choose, and that’s their right, there are far more who don’t choose it, but because they’ve got to push the baby out –
P: Yep.
M: – and recover from that.
P: This is what I mean.
M: They have no choice and therefore they have to take time off work, and that impacts their ability to save superannuation.
P: Mmm.
M: It also is the only way that the family can survive because a lot of men don’t have paternity leave, and so they’re the only ones that can get an income.
P: It’s a policy issue.
M: Yeah, it’s a systemic issue, and I’d say yes, there are some women who would like to stay home and look after their kids. However, there are many who don’t and they’re stuck with no choice. And that’s the problem.
P: Ok.
M: And not only that when they do finally have the opportunity to go back to work, they are starting from scratch, they’re struggling to find work.
P: They’re at a disadvantage.
M: They often can only find part time work or they have to look for part time work because they still have to look after the kids.
P: Yep.
M: And the man in the relationship has continued to build a career, and they’re so far behind that it doesn’t make sense for the family, for them to be the full time breadwinner and the man to be the part time carer.
P: Mmm.
M: So the system just keeps perpetuating that loss off income and career progression for a good 10 years, or however long it takes until you feel comfortable that kids can walk home from school by themselves.
P: Mmm, yeah. I still I still think that there is a demographic in there that make the call, they don’t want the career choice they actually prefer ‘No, I don’t want the stress of that’ because they still have to take care of Children.
M: And I’d say there’s just as many of them as there are men and the men have no choice to do that. For us women that is the only choice a lot of the time.
P: Mmm, ok.
M: Because the system’s stacked against us and there’s a lot of women who, as we’ve mentioned before, would like to have purpose and meaning in their life that isn’t tied to someone else’s happiness.
P: Of course.
M: Any way I could be on my high horse for a very long time, laugh.
P: I just wanted to get it out there, because I was genuinely shocked when I saw the inequality towards women was a COVID response.
M: Yep.
P: In response to COVID. But I was surprised by that, because I would say that generally speaking, I find women more resilient in terms of emotional responses to issues.
M: Well, I think this next one, we’re going to have to speed this up and wrap it up.
P: Oops, sorry.
M: This next one will actually give the counter argument to that.
P: Ok.
M: So why don’t you drop in this next one?
P: Alright, so the next one is that people who are more social had greater drops in happiness. So, people who were going out and [they’re] the life of the party, the social butterflies, the ones who are coordinating all the friends and have lots of friends, fared far worse in COVID than those who were perhaps a little bit more stringent with their socialising.
We have a study from Britain by Ben Etheridge and that Lisa Spantig, both from the University of Essex, that found that again, women without least four close friends slumped more than anyone during the spring in 2020 lock down and that people who are used to seeing a lot of friends, here we go again with the young people, they suffered really badly –
M: Young people and women.
P: – in this experience.
M: So back to your point about women, the drop in social contacts could have also been exacerbating things. Definitely.
P: Mmm, yes.
M: And that would have been impacted again, unequally compared to men who had less friends, in general. Now we’re definitely stereotyping and generalising here.
P: Yeah.
M: But definitely young people and women again would have been exacerbated by lockdowns.
P: And that comes back again to that other point about the youth having to really struggle through this and they really are at a disadvantage. As you said, those figures in the job market in the US that puts them back behind the eight ball for another 10 years.
M: Yep.
P: Add on to that the social impacts of having their friendship circle [cut], because that’s when you make friends in your twenties and you’re meeting people who are outside of your normal sphere. You know, you’ve moved out of home, you’ve gone to university, you’ve gone to new places. Yeah, not meeting people at that point that could have a real social impact 10, 20 years down the track.
M: Yes. Absolutely. All right, well, we’ll have to end there. But it was –
P: An interesting one.
M: – definitely an interesting one, yep. Laugh. And sorry for the rant on the women’s rights.
P: No, no. I want to get your response, I just wanted to throw that one at you.
M: Oh! Yep.
P: Laugh, I could see – Laugh!
M: I’m still biting my tongue, Pete. Laugh!
P: Yeah, I’m just ready for a back hander, laugh.
M: We’ll do that off air, laugh. All right. Thanks for joining us today and we’ll see you next week.
P: Bye
[Happy exit music – background]
M: Thanks for joining us today if you want to hear more please remember to subscribe and like this podcast and remember you can find us at www.marieskelton.com, where you can also send in questions or propose a topic.
P: And if you like our little show we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.
M: Until next time.
M & P: Choose happiness.
[Exit music fadeout]
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