From Languishing to Flourishing (E70)

Happiness for Cynics podcast

This week, Marie and Pete talk about how to go from languishing to flourishing in our super busy, stressful and complicated world.

Show notes

During the podcast Pete talks about a segment he heard on Triple J by Dr. Karl Kruszelnicki.

Transcript

[Happy intro music -background]

M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.

P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.

M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.

P: Plus, sometimes I think we’re kind of funny.

[Intro music fadeout]

M: And we’re back.

P: Howdy, howdy, howdy!

M: Hi, hi!

P: Laugh. So, I’d like to start off the episode this week Marie with an acknowledgment of country.

M: Aww.

P: It’s reconciliation week this week in Australia, and for those of you who aren’t aware reconciliation week in Australia is about our shared history. Acknowledging our first Nations peoples, acknowledging the shared history that we have [and] addressing some of the issues that have come out of the acknowledgement that shared history in terms of the things that have happened and how we can move forward in a reconciliation format.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: If I could speak our native language, I’d do it but I’m not going to insult our first nations people by attempting that.

M: Laugh.

P: I was thinking about it in terms of a happiness scale, and this is one of those things that you can get involved with, which is going to bring more happiness and more joy into your life. This is an opportunity to go and do something and be involved in a community endeavour.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And we know, and we’ve talked about how volunteering your time and taking part in ethical actions can sometimes bring about good feelings. And those good feelings are sustainable. Going along to a local ceremony or going along to an event showing your support is one way of doing an ethical thing which is going to give you back tenfold in terms of what you put in.

M: Absolutely. And so I would like to pay my respects to elders past, present and emerging, and we live here in Sydney in the Eora nation. So, I did know that. Thank you for springing this on me!

P & M: Laughter.

M: But there are some great activities you can do, and the other thing we talked about is novelty and bringing novelty into your life.

P: Mmm.

M: We haven’t really explored our indigenous history. There are so many fabulous things you can do, particularly around Sydney here.

P: Mmm.

M: We did a wonderful tour through the rocks area and learned about how our ancestors ate and the fish and the ways that they communicated with other tribes that came through and to tell them what was poisonous and what was not.

P: Yep.

M: And learn about the plants and the agriculture and horticulture and all of that …culture.

P & M: Laugh!

M: Not my area of expertise, just throwing that out there!

P: Laugh.

M: Alright, and how they lived as well. And it was a fascinating walk-through modern-day Sydney with learning about past culture.

P: Mmm. There was a wonderful programme I heard this morning on JJJ which is a local youth National Broadcasting Channel, Radio Channel in Australia. Dr. Karl, who most people will know.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: Karl Stefanovic.. not Stefanovic. What was his name?

M: Uh, I don’t know. Dr. Karl.

P: I can’t remember, laugh.

M: Does anyone even know their last name?

P: Laugh! Anyway they had a couple of First Nations People on the program this week and one of them was an astronomer who looks at the stars through an indigenous lens.

M: Aww, I love it.

P: And I though, oh that would be really cool, but unfortunately I had to go and do an exam.

M: Oh.

P: Listening to those sort of things or going and experiencing some of the fantastic performances and celebrations that are around and just choosing to be part of that.

M: Mmm.

P: It’s a good way to bring happiness and joy.

M: Absolutely, well thank you for bringing that up.

P: That’s alright, [Super excited voice] what are we talking about this week, Marie?

M: Laugh! We are talking about a really hot topic –

P: Oooh, I like a hot topic!

M: Yes, everyone’s talking about languishing,

P: Oh!

M: and what it is to languish.

P: Oh, I feel like I need to repose in a pool with a gin and tonic.

M: Mmm hmm.

M: So last year, or maybe the year before flourishing, flourishing and thriving were the buzzwords in positive psychology, particularly Arianna Huffington, launched her website Thrive and it’s all about living your best life.

P: Mmm. Now flourishing post covid or during covid we’re still in covid, let’s be honest and sorry for all you Melbourne people down there who are very much still in covid and in the lock down Flourishing is a word that’s come out in the last year to mean just kind of surviving, just living.

P: Oh, really!

M: Uh, not flourishing, languishing!

P: Oh, ok right. I was just gonna say [flourishing] has been dumbed down, laugh.

M: And really is reflected in the fact that in the past year, a lot of us have just been.

P: Existed.

M: You know, I am.

P: Yeah.

M: Yeah, exactly, exactly. So we’re talking about how to get from languishing to flourishing.

P: Flourishing! It just makes you want to sing “Laaaaaa.”

M: And I love that the study that we’re looking at today came from an Aussie!

P: Laugh! Oh, I’ve got to do this haven’t I?

M: You do and how do you pronounce Geraldine’s last name?

P: Geraldine Przybylko. She’s Polish by the look of it.

M: In Australia, yes.

P: So, Geraldine I hope I got that right.

M: Laugh. Ah, yep. It was too much for me, I say that with all the respect in the world.

P: Laugh.

M: Her and her colleagues have just published a new study in the journal of Positive Psychology, which suggests that happiness comes with practise, which we’ve said quite a few times on our show.

P: Yeah.

M: And that you’ve got to put work into being happy. So if you want to go from languishing to flourishing, you’ve got to put in the work.

P: Do the work people. It’s like wanting to play an instrument or be a good sports person and only reading the books or listening on the podcast not actually getting out practising.

P & M: Laughter!

M: And happiness is like that. You can’t just read a book about volleyball and not ever go into a gym and play.

P: Laugh.

M: And unfortunately, a lot of people are buying self-help books and are doing that reading and coming out all inspired, and they’re wondering why they’re not happy three week later.

P: Yeah.

M: So, this study is actually looking at what we need to do, to go from languishing to flourishing.

P: And they’re talking about the combination of two different aspects. One of positive psychology, but combined with lifestyle medicine.

M: Yes.

P: What is the lifestyle medicine Marie?

M: Things like eating well, getting enough sleep. All the things your doctor tells you to do.

P: Or your allied Health Professional?

M: Yes, and positive psychology adds in the positive affirmations.

P: The mental aspect of lifestyle medicine, would you say?

M: Yeah. Mental and emotional.

P: Hmm, ok.

M: Yeah. So, adding those two together in a 10 week program showed a 17% increase in happiness or moving from languishing to flourishing.

P: That’s higher than interest rates in the eighties!

M: Laugh, sure is.

P: Laugh.

M: And not only that, up to 12 weeks afterwards, people were still showing higher happiness levels.

P: So, it’s lasting change.

M: Yes.

P: Ah, ok.

M: It is 10 weeks will give you at least another 10 weeks after that of change.

P: Makes sense though, because in anything that you’re trying to do in terms of habit forming if you’re going to do 10 weeks, you’ve set the practise in motion and you’ve got the habit formed by 10 weeks.

M: Well, the interesting thing about this – I’d say yes, definitely – But they did 10 different things over 10 weeks.

P: Mmm.

M: So, they weren’t setting habits necessarily. So, they did 10 different things over 10 different weeks and combined all of those 10 things, added to people’s happiness or flourishing levels.

P: Oh! So how does one measure our flourishing level?

M: Well, why don’t you tell me?

P & M: Laugh.

P: Well, it’s funny because when I first read this, I went and put my cynic hat on.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: The flourishing scale… And the first thing that came into my mind was ‘how can you rate flourishing scale because it’s very subjective, like pain. My pain is different to your pain.’

M: They have a scale for pain too! And actually, Jo and Francis, when I was in hospital used to hold up the scale to me in the morning.

P: Laughter! But the nature of pain is very subjective, so in terms of comparing data, it’s very difficult.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: So, what they’ve done to maybe get past that subjective measure is they’ve created 10 different measures of flourishing, they start with:

Most days I feel a sense of accomplishment from what I do.

M: That’s engagement with your life.

P: Ok yep, next one is:

In the past week I felt calm and peaceful.

M: Again, that’s a measure of not feeling manic and like a lot of people do in today’s day and age.

P: Mmm hmm.

I love learning new things.

M: This would go along with the growth mindset, which has been proven to make people happier than people who don’t have growth mindset. Yep, love it.

P: Yeah.

I generally feel that what I do in my life is valuable and worthwhile.

M: Purpose, yep purpose we know that one.

P: Laugh.

Always optimistic about my future.

M: Always is a strong word, isn’t it?

P: Laugh, yeah. Well, I don’t know anyone who’s always [optimistic].

M: We’re reading these on a scale right? So perhaps for this one a 7 is good.

P: Yeah.

Taking all things together, how happy would you say you are?

There are people in my life who really care about me.

M & P: Social connection, laugh.

P: We know you love that one, Muz.

When things go wrong in my life it generally does not take me a long time to get back to normal.

P: Resilience!

M: This is resilience, Pete!

P: Laugh. Geez, I’m getting good at this, I only went over this today.

M: Look at us, we know what we’re talking about!

P & M: Laughter!

P: [gunshot noises] Pew, pew, pew!

M: That’s a bit of a surprise, research that we’ve actually talked about!

P: Laughter, ok last two:

In general, I feel very positive about myself.

P: Projection.

M: There’s something Aussie and cynical in me that’s like ‘stop being so arrogant!’

P & M: Laugh.

P: And the last one:

In the past week, I had a lot of energy.

M: [Lack of energy] Is an early sign for depression. Just feeling really lacklustre and not feeling like wanting to do anything.

P: It’s one of the markers for leading to different conditions.

M: Interesting.

P: So, asking yourself those questions is a really good way to measure your flourishing. And I guess you would collate the points score together and measure it out of 100 see where you’re sitting. So, if you are 66 okay, my flourishing level is above average, above 50.

M: I don’t think that you would compare it average. I think the key point there is subjective happiness like you said before happiness is subjective. So, you start at 66 which is neither good nor bad.

P: Ok, yep.

M: And after the end, have you gone up?

P: Oh, ok.

M: You know, is your level at 88?

P: Just like a remedial exercise program, laugh.

M: And after 10 weeks if you continue and do another 10 weeks of it do you get more gain?

P: Aahhh, that would be interesting. Or to do it spasmodically. Spasmodically?

M: Laugh.

P: Periodically, like throughout year at different points or a three-monthly exercise. We can re-visit our goals once a year, maybe we could revisit our flourishing level once a quarter, when do your tax return, laugh.

M: And you know what, they say you can’t prove what you don’t measure.

P: Mmm, I agree.

M: And I think it needs to be something that we’re more systemic, systematic and put more attention towards.

P: And this is a really, easy tool to do that. It’s a really easy way to come up with a measurement without going ‘Oh, where do I rate myself today?’ This is just answering questions off the cuff.

M: Yep, absolutely. So, let’s move to the activities because that’s really where it’s interesting, I think.

P: Ok.

M: What can you put in practise that is going to tangibly improve your happiness levels? And these 10 things, so one a week is what they did, they had a daily challenge and a weekly challenge.

P: Ok.

M: So every day there was something little. And then over the week they had a lot more, like bigger things, that they needed to do. So, week one – really, really easy, Speak positively.

P: Ahh, yeah, the inner voice. Change the inner voice.

M: Yes, and now the first one, if you’re not someone who likes to look in the mirror and tell yourself you’re beautiful, wonderful, smart, and intelligent –

P: Laugh.

M: – this might make you breathe a sigh of relief; It is offering a genuine compliment. So once a day for a week offer a genuine compliment to someone else.

P: That’s pretty easy to do, yeah.

M: It is, as long as you focus on doing it, you remember to do it.

P: Yeah.

M: Put it in the diary, put a reminder in your phone, whatever it is and then make sure that you do it. And then the weekly challenge was memorize an inspirational text or saying.

P: I love that.

M: Absolutely and I love that, because when was the last time you actually sat down and memorised text?

P: All the time, laugh!

M: Memorized?

P: Yeah.

M: So, you can quote it back later?

P: Yeah.

M: I’m so 21st century brain, I consume so much and retain and remember so little, laugh.

P: Yeah, right-o ok.

M: To be really honest.

P: That’s possibly something I have done a lot of through my positive psychology training, remembering things that I can pull out of a hat or let inspire you.  

M: It’s about mindfulness in a way. It’s really connecting deeply with something in the moment that’s, that’s beautiful and ironic that I don’t do it more often, laugh.

P: It was also part of my blog, I used to always end with a quote.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: So, I had that in there, that I had a weekly task of finding a quote. You do that.

M: I have a quote for my weekly newsletter, do I remember them?

P & M: No, laugh!

M: I love them in the moment.

P & M: Laugh.

M: But I don’t commit them to memory because it’s about going that next step.

P: Yep.

M: So, that was week one. Week two, this one’s for you, Pete.

P: Oh.

M: Move dynamically.

P: Woo hoo! Dance, dance, dance.

M: Yes.

P: Dance naked around the kitchen! It’s really fun! Just do it when your flatmate’s not coming home from volleyball.

M: Laugh, sorry Charlie.

P: Laugh!

M: So, for one week only, you’re going to really commit to some exercise. So, they say 30 minutes of moderate exercise or 10,000 steps.

P: Yeah.

M: Yeah, we do that every single day for one week. And then the weekly challenge is really quite easy. So on one of those days, do 20 minutes of guided resistance exercise, that’s like weights.

P: Yeah, Thera-bands, body-weight work, some gymnastics, handstands!

M: All right. Week three – Immerse in an uplifting natural environment.

P: Aahhh, forest bathing!

M: Get out into nature.

P: Forest bathing, it’s a thing.

M: 30 minutes a day. Essentially, what they’re asking is for 10 weeks, put 30 minutes aside to be happier.

P: Yes.

M: So 30 minutes a day, you know, out near a lake, the beach, the mountains.

P: Find a local park, there’s so many of them around in Sydney.

M: Yep or go to the beach. And then the weekly challenges to experience a sunrise.

P: Oooh, that’s a hard one.

M: It sure is.

P: Laugh! Mind you I’ve been getting up really early.

M: Eeuggh, sunrise early?

P: Yeah.

M: It’s the middle of winter.

P: Yeah, I know, it’s not hard ‘cause it’s later, laugh.

M: …Okay, all right. Week four – Immerse in a positive social environment.

P: Mmm.

M: So daily, do something intentional, to show you care.

P: Ok.

M: And weekly, this one’s a good one, forgive someone who’s hurt you.

P: Oh, that’s opening up a can of worms.

M: Yeah, and we’ve spoken about forgiveness before. Forgiveness is not about that person.

P: Mmm.

M: It’s about you letting go of things and your anger.

P: Yeah, and it’s not about you saying ‘I forgive you.’ It’s just the action and you don’t have to express it.

M: Yep.

P: I think that’s what people fear, ‘I simply can’t do it!’

M: No, no, no, you never have to talk to them again.

P: Yeah.

M: And you don’t have to approve of their behaviour, or anything like that. It’s about you.

P: Yeah.

M: Alright, week five – Look to the positive. So spend 15 minutes reflecting on three things that went well everyday.

P: Oooh.

M: That’s gratitude.

P: Yep.

M: We talked about that before and then weekly, write a letter of gratitude to someone and share it with them.

P: Aww.

M: Again, we’ve spoken about the power of that well.

P: Yep.

M: Week six – Eat nutritiously.

P: Yeah, we know this works.

M: Oh, this is my downfall.

P: Gasp!

M: Laugh! Eat eight servings of plant based food a day.

P: Yes.

M: it’s really… You’re not going to be hungry.

P: No.

M: Eight servings of plant-based food, unless your choosing lettuce each time.

P: Laugh, even lettuce will fill you up.

M: Absolutely. You know you can definitely feel full off that.

P: Yep.

M: And then the weekly challenge is to prepare a high fibre, plant based meal with one or more friends.

P: Yes!

M: Make it social.

P: Sook socially, it’s good fun.

M: It’s very, the weekly challenge is very 21st century, isn’t it?

P: Mmm.

M: Plant based, that wasn’t even a thing 20 years ago.

P: Yeah, definitely.

M: So, we’re definitely not only doing what’s better for our bodies, but being environmentally conscious about it.

P: Laugh.

M: Okay, Week seven – Rest – sleep.

P: Sleep, sleep more! So, many studies done about this.

M: Yes.

P: And it always comes up. If we don’t rest, we don’t regenerate.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And one hour sleep deprivation is enough to downgrade your immune system by 50%.

M: Look at you and your course knowledge.

P: Laugh.

M: Or stats, that you remember.

P: Laugh.

M: So, this is about committing to spending eight hours in bed without a device.

P: Mmm.

M: It doesn’t count if you’re watching cat videos.

P: The better way is to plug it into a wall socket away from you bed.

M: Yep.

P: Put it in another room and make your room device free.

M: Or go to bed early, and so I read on my device, I know it’s not good, and then I’ll put it away, but I’m very good at getting my eight hours of sleep. I’m a cranky –

P: Laugh!

M: – person if I don’t. And then the weekly challenge to add to that was to spend an evening by firelight.

P: Oh, oh, candle-light, does that work?

M: Yes.

P: Alright, that’s easy.

M: Alright, week eight, I’m loving seven and eight, these are right up my alley. Week eight is –

Rest – from stress.

P: Oh.

M: So your daily challenges is to spend 15 minutes in a quiet place, relaxing and being mindful of your surroundings.

P: Ah, a bit of meditation time.

M: Yes.

P: Go, sit under a tree, hear the birdies tweeting. Sit in church, go and sit in a church, you don’t have to pray. Churches are great for that, they’re wonderful places –

M: They’re really beautiful.  

P: – and they’re quite, great to sit in and be awed and inspired.

M: Yep. And then the weekly challenge for that one is to take a day off work and have a digital Sabbath.

P: Mmm.

M: So, so offline for 24 hours to recharge.

P: Yeah, escape.

M: So, I guess if you can, you know, go camping or find somewhere just quiet and away from all your stresses and be quiet for a day.

P: Mmm, mmm.

M: All right, keep going. Number nine is – Serving others. So, your daily challenge is to perform a random act of kindness.

P: Laughter! Done.

M: Mmm hmm. And your weekly challenge is to use your signature strength to perform an act of service, so I don’t think we’ve actually covered signature strengths yet.

P: Not yet.

M: But the VIA [Values In Action] signature strength test [The VIA Character Strengths Survey], so, that’s from Penn University in the States, it’s a really good way to just understand yourself better.

P: Hmm.

M: And the thinking used to be in the corporate world in the nineties and early two thousand’s that you wanted to understand your strengths and weaknesses and work on your weaknesses so that you were a well-rounded human-being.

P: Yeah, yeah,

M: The thinking nowadays is screw that –

P: Laugh.

M: if you’re not good at it don’t bother!

P: Laughter!

M: Unless it’s really holding you back.

P: Yeah.

M: And to really focus in on what your strengths are and double down on that.

P: Oh, ok.

M: If that’s what you’re good at, go do that!

P: Yeah.

M: And make sure that that’s part of your job.

P: Well, that taps into purpose as-well doesn’t it? And that concept of Ikigai, where you’re doing something you’re passionate about that you’re good at.

M: Passionate about, yeah. Because we’re normally not passionate about stuff that we don’t… that we’re not good at.

P: Mmm. Yeah, no, true.

M: So this is, again VIA strengths assessment, and you can go do that for free online and just get a better understanding what your strengths are.

P: Mmm.

M: And last one, week 10, the question is – What does it take to flourish? So your daily challenge is continue the challenges that you found to be helpful.

P: Ok.

M: And your weekly challenge is to continue the challenges that you found to be helpful.

P: Laughter!

M: It’s a bit of a cheat week, isn’t it? Laugh.

P: Yeah, it’s a week off. Laugh, ah we’ll give you a break!

M: So, I guess before we wrap up. The whole point of talking about this in today’s episode is to say that we talk about so many of these things every week, don’t we?

P: Mmm, yeah.

M: But just like exercising or learning an instrument, we can’t just talk about it and we can’t just listen to a podcast.

P: Mmm.

M: You’ve actually got to put this stuff into the practise.

P: Yep.

M: And if you do, this latest study here shows that you can improve your happiness or move away from languishing and more towards flourishing and loving life by up to 17%.

P: Yep, that’s a decent figure.

M: Sure is. Who wouldn’t want to be 17 percent happier?

P: Definitely.

M: I think Dan Harris, wrote a book 10% Happier.

So, this is like kicking you ass down, laugh.

P: Hey, we’re one up! Laugh! Throw that challenge glove down!

M & P: Laugh!

M: Absolutely, well on that note we’ll end for the week.

P: Enjoy your tasks people.

M: Wishing you a happy week.

[Happy exit music – background]

M: Thanks for joining us today if you want to hear more, please remember to subscribe and like this podcast and remember you can find us at www.marieskelton.com, where you can also send in questions or propose a topic.

P: And if you like our little show, we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.

M: Until next time.

M & P: Choose happiness.

[Exit music fadeout]

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