The Danish Art of Hygge (E26)

Happiness for Cynics Podcast

Denmark is the happiest country in the world, so this week we look at the Danish practice of Hygge (pronounced hoo-geh) to see what all the fuss is about.

Transcript

M: You’re listening to the podcast happiness for cynics. I’m Marie Skelton, a writer and speaker focused on change and resilience.

P: And I’m Peter Furness, a lover, maker and happiness creator. Has a nice ring to it, Doesn’t it?

M: It does.

P: Each week we will bring to you the latest news and research in the world of positive psychology, otherwise known as happiness.

M: So, if you’re feeling low.

P: Or if you’re only satisfied with life but not truly happy with it.

M: Or maybe you just want more.

P: [Whispers] Greedy.

Then this is the place to be.

M: And today’s episode is all about Hygge.

[Happy intro music]

M: So today we are talking about Hygge. And we have listened to [the pronunciation of] it on Google multiple times.

P: And it took multiple chances to get it right.

M: And we’ve probably still got it wrong. So I apologise if you are Danish.

P: [Laugh]

M: So Hygge. How’s that spelled, Pete?

P: H Y G G E.

M: Yes. I think that’s how they teach kids to spell now. Isn’t it?

P: Phonetically?

M: Yeah

P: Oh wow.

M: Maybe, maybe I read that, I read a lot of things. I make a lot of things up to I’m sure of it.

P: Like Moses and the 15 tablets. [Laugh]

M: That was you. All you! [Laugh]

M: So Hygge, what is it?

P: Interesting.

M: Do you want to get started?

P: Oh no, this is all you.

M: Okay, so I came across this, this week, and I’m so intrigued by this on and I’m going to start by quoting a guy called Meik Wiking, we would say, taking in English. But I’m sure it’s pronounced Viking because he is a Dane, right? So that’s where the Vikings came from. Up there, right? So he’s the author of ‘The Little Book of Hygge Danish Secrets to Happy Living.’

He’s also the CEO of the Happiness Research Institute in Copenhagen. And even more impressive from a background point of view is that Denmark is the world’s happiest country, according to – [the 2016 World Happiness Report]

P: – Followed very closely by Sweden and Norway, who sometimes tip them over the balance, I was reading.

M: These guys are all happy so we’re going to actually turn and listen, so this is about saying what’s going on in the happiest country in the world, right?

P: There’s a reason why they’re so happy.

M: So he says that Hygge has been called everything from the art of creating intimacy to cosiness of the soul and even cocoa by candlelight.

P: Awe

M: And in his book, he explains that you know Hygge when you feel it, but that some of the key ingredients are:

• Togetherness;

• Relaxation;

• Indulgence;

• Presence; and

• Comfort.

P: It just sounds like a night in front of the Telly [Television].

M: It sounds like an indulgent in front of the Telly.

P: Ooh! Tim Tams, coffee and champagne.

M: Yes a deliberate night in front of the Telly not just a.. I’m exhausted from work, and I happen to be in front of the Telly, it’s like I’m choosing it.

P: Yeah.

M: Which makes it all the more better. You’re choosing laziness and getting happiness out of it.

P: Yeah very true.

M: And what I’m so excited about this is it gives you permission to cuddle in the blanket and sweatpants all day.

P: [Laugh]

M: Bliss.

P: And if our listeners could see, Marie is still in her sweat pants and her little slippers, and it’s four o’clock in the afternoon on a Friday.

M: It pretty much excuses my entire behaviour for Covid, three months of my life was just dedicated to Hygge, not just laziness.

P: It’s just giving yourself permission.

M: I mean they don’t talk about not shaving or showering but I think you could go there if you wanted to.

P: Haha sure, ok it’s indulgent.

M: So pretty much. What we’re talking about is that actually the Danes spend a lot more time indoors over winter than we do. We are very lucky with the weather and this is a way of coming together and creating a cosy environment and blissing out.

P: Well, it’s interesting. I was reading one of the articles in The New Yorker actually about Hygge.

M: In the New Yorker?

P: The New Yorker, yes. Just to throw that out there. And what I found interesting was that they talk about it in terms of you can’t necessarily transfer the Hygge concept to Americanism because of the culture differences between Denmark and America.

M: Mmm

P: It becomes a little bit more of a[n] egalitarian concept. When you transfer it straight into American [society], they talk about the fact that-

M: What?

P: Well, they’re talking about it in terms of their culture that if you just say to people, you know you want the Danish experience, you want to have antlers on your wall and cosy fur rugs and the Scandinavian wood and all this sort of stuff.

M: And a roaring fire.

P: [Laugh]

M: I’m there, I’m there. Keep going.

P: I’m probably not explaining it very well, but they say that if you transfer that across to an American experience, it becomes different, becomes it a social. How do they talk about it, it becomes.. I’m trying to be really polite. I’m just going to come out and say it, it becomes egotistic. ‘Oh, I’m celebrating my fabulousness because I have access to all these Scandinavian design and so forth and the evolution of a roaring fire in my house.’

M: The irony is that Scandinavian design is minimalist, they’re known for their minimalism and not for their comfort and cosiness.

[Laughter]

M: But, I love this concept, which maybe layers on top of the minimalist.

P: I’m going to quote the article here.

‘When transferred to the United States. The kind of understated luxury that Danes consider a shared national trait starts to seem like little more than a symbol of economic status, the very thing that Scandinavian countries have sought to jettison.’

M: [Laugh] This is so New Yorker.

[Laughter]

M: This is more a reflection on the New Yorker than on America.

P: [Laugh] Ok, we’re not going to go there. We might delete this.

M: No, no, not at all. I think it’s a really valid perspective.

P: Well, they go on to say that there are lessons from the Hygge that Americans might heed.

M: And I think is we’re going into winter now in Australia, and because this is a new thing, it is the new Marie Kondo, you know, sparking joy; Hygge is the latest thing that everyone’s talking about right now, and in particular because of this ‘Little Book of Hygge’ that’s come out. So go look it up if you’re looking for something to read over winter, and I think it’s perfect in its timing because of what’s happened with Covid, we’ve just been given permission to spend all this time at home. Winter is coming Pete, and we need Hygge.

P: Let’s make it relative though the Australian winter is coming, which, let’s face it in Sydney means that it’s going to be 14 degrees, which is not exactly the same as a Scandinavian winter.

M: We may have listeners in the high country.

P: Ok yeah.. I’m coming down, once the borders are open. It’s interesting you talk about winter because I’ve got a great quote here that ‘The hard learned lesson of frigid Scandinavian winters, is that there’s no such thing as bad weather, only unsuitable clothing.’

M: I love it.

P: [Laughter] That all you really need to get through difficult times is shelter and sustenance, kith and kin.

M: Kin, so again doesn’t have to be family. It can be a chosen family, and I think when the weather is crap, whether it’s raining here or it’s just cold and everything’s relative if you have you grown up in Sydney, then winters are cold. If you’ve been anywhere else in the world, you’ll know that Sydney winters are nothing to complain about. But it is all relative.

P: It is all relative. Yes [Laugh]

M: And then it’s about going ‘ooh it’s cold let’s get everyone together to have some port or sherry and –

P: And snuggle up together.

M: Yeah, snuggle.

P: That’s where I actually do love our volleyball friends we’re a very affectionate bunch.

M: [Laugh]

P: Maybe it’s because we sweat together, but get us together on the couch and we will literally fall all over each other, and it’s kind of like, you know, everybody’s body is our body in a way, it’s like yeah I’m just going to nuzzle in here.

M: There’s no boundaries. It’s true. [Laugh]

P: Well, pretty much.

[Laughter]

P: It’s lovely because there is an, I will talk about the importance of touch here, a subject upon which I am very passionate. It is important for hugs and touch and affection to be expressed.

M: It is particularly important for some people if that is their love language, as we’ve discussed we need to do an episode on love languages by the way.

P: Done

M: But yeah, but some people in particular, touch is such a vital part of how they feel connected and express love and care for other people.

P: But it does things to a scientifically it sets off chemical reactions. It sets off sensor in neurons that are beneficial to us. So we can’t live without touch.

M: Hhmm

P: If you challenge me on that one, I’m going to come back at you with science.

M: You can’t live well without touch. It’s not like air.

P: Alright, I’ll give you that.

M: Food, water.

P: We’ll come back to that one.

Hygge. Actually Hyggebukser.

M: So, Hyggebukser. And okay, what is Hyggebukser?

P: Hyggebukser: Otherwise known is that slubby pair of pants you would never wear in public, but secretly treasure. We all have one.

M: I’ve got multiple. Is that bad?

P: No. I’ve got t-shirts that this really should have gone in the bin three years ago. But they’re just so comfy.

M: Yep. I’ve Yep. Is particularly like if you bought them somewhere meaningful, Yep. And then the other Danish word that goes with this Hygge movement is Hyggelig, which is Hygge – like. So Pete, tell me about your last Hyggelig moment.

P: Hyggelig moment, hhmm. It didn’t happen in winter, but it was a moment of being, we’d had a debauched evening of wonderful celebration and so forth and I was in my underwear.

M: Ha ha. That is so not unusual for you. And I think somebody who we won’t name dared me to take off my pants at one point and then I just left him off for the evening because it was just convenient and lying on the couch and –

M: – Because it was just convenient [laugh].

P: Well, it is. I’m comfortable in my undies. But we were on the couch and it was the end of the evening and we’d all imbibed and taken part of something. And it was this really quiet Segway into the quiet, quiet sort of hours of the morning. And we’re all lying on the couch together. I think we were watching or listening to some music and everyone was just kind of, it was like a twister board if we just kind of wrapped up with each other.

M: Falling asleep. [Laugh]

P: Pretty much. At one point one of my friends lifted his head up and he looked around at the various people that were all inter linked by hands and legs and arms and so forth and went, yeah this is a pretty cool collection of people.

[Laughter]

P: But it was utter contentment. And I think the reason that we were all falling asleep is also because we felt very chill and it was it was encouraged. It was like I’m so comfortable and I am so comforted in this moment.

M: I think that’s what comes from having a really good close group of friends because I haven’t done that since university days. And we would have all been blind drunk and someone would mean throwing up in the corner. Had we been back in those days.

P: True.

M: Whereas I think I know the night that you’re referring to [Laugh].

P: You were there Marie. [Laugh]

M: And everyone going I’m just going to sleep right here.

P: And it worked. [Laugh]

M: Very weird, but anyway. That is a lovely, lovely moment. Thank you for sharing, Peter.

So Hygge? How do we practise Hygge?

P: I like it. I like that you’ve got this one in there, Marie. No money.

M: Yes!

P: Hygge is not about money. It’s not about spending money on indulgences, not about buying a car.

M: Absolutely. And it’s, yeah, it’s not about buying happiness and back to your point with The New Yorker article it is not about spending money to make something happen, right?

P: No.

M: It is about putting on your daggiest sweat pants and your ugg boots that you love but don’t tell anyone your own and that favourite T-shirt of yours that is so soft you feel like it’s going to fall apart soon because you washed it that many times. So it’s not expensive or fancy, and it’s about getting together people that matter to you or, or not. You don’t actually need the people. You could just get a good book and sit outside in the sun, right? It could be the exact opposite of the, the image that we’re painting with the room with the fire and the cold outside. It is finding a cosy space.

P: Does it have to be shared?

M: No.

P: Hygge doesn’t need to [have] another person.

M: No.

P: I’m gonna challenge you on that one, Muz.

M: I don’t think it does.

P: I thought it’s sort of, it’s about connecting with your intimate crew. And the thing that I was reading was that it’s about not connecting with a large group of people, but a close knit group of one or two people. And this is something that the Danes do. They don’t necessarily have large gatherings. They have cosy gatherings of one or two, which goes towards them almost seeming … standoffish because you can’t break into their little cliques and so forth. Now it’s something that could be a cultural perspective, but it isn’t about big groups of people, but it is about people and being connected with one or two others.

M: I think you’ve gotta have those moments of one or two in order to have these deeper connection moments, because when you’re at a big table of people having dinner, or a big party, you don’t get as intimate with people just by the nature experience.

P: Yeah, no. And you’ve got background noise and so forth.

M: As far as Hygge and whether or not it requires people, my understanding is that it doesn’t that you can jump under a blanket and watch a romcom with a steaming mug of..

P: Jarrah?

M: Cider or whatever, whatever floats your boat. It’s about the comfort as well.

So, firstly, it shouldn’t cost you much or anything. Secondly, it’s all about the simple pleasures in life and stopping and being mindful of those things.

So we are in our busy, hectic, crazy lives often sit down in front of TV and chill.

This is about choosing to do it on a Friday night with a movie that you’ve been wanting to watch and your tub of Ben and Jerry’s and ordering pizza and choosing that as a way to spoil yourself and indulging yourself, but with the simple pleasures in life or having a board game night with two friends and your partner, preferably non digital options, I would say. And it can be about spending time with people you love, or it could be about reading a book.

P: OK. I’ll give you that, the concept of indulgence and so forth does come from reading a book. Yes.

M: Hhmm. It’s taking the time to.. Yeah, and this is why again, I gave three different examples of what Hygge has been called up the beginning of the episode here. There’s no riel, solid definition of it. It is a thing that the Danes all get and know. And the rest of the world is now trying to cotton on.

[Laughter]

M: So excuse us listeners, while we kind of..

P: Catch-up?

M: muddle through it and work it out, yeah.

P: It’s not only a Danish thing, though. There’s a Swedish concept as well, which is very similar. It’s called Lagom. Now literally, apparently, that refers to a kind of moderation.

M: [Derisive noise] Moderation.

[Laughter]

M: It’s not part of my language.

P: [Laugh]

M: My vocabulary.

P: It comes back to a Viking phrase, so it’s still, it’s still part of the culture reference on Lagom. I’m probably saying that very badly, interprets as around the team, meaning it’s about sharing with people and it also refers to taking mead, so it means that you should take only a sip of the mead that’s being passed around so that no one is left without and Lagom interprets also as being adequate or just right or in balance.

M: I found this really fascinating that is so part of the Scandinavian mindset. They have very community –

P: Very socialist.

M: – focus, not even socialist. Not socialist in the way that Americans bandied the term around. They see it as, when Americans say socialist they think communist very often.

P: Yep, which are two very different words.

M: Very different things. So, yes, socialist its community and family first rather than self-first, and you look at who the happiest populations are and it’s the Swedish.

P: It’s the Scandinavians.

M: And yeah, it does come at a cost. I mean, they have a higher tax bracket. They have a much more community driven expense module. It’s about investing in the town and the nation. It’s not just about investing in self.

M: But it all comes back to them, it makes them happy.

P: It does come back and they value that and it’s I think that’s a cultural influence. It’s bandied about with them when they’re children. They’re taught to understand that this is how it works.

M: And here’s the irony of that. Even though you’re paying more in taxes, they’re getting more back so they’re happier and their wage gap, the wealth gap is actually smaller. So unlike in countries like America, where they say it’s all about the dream –

P: Hhmm..

M: and right? And they’re very much based in the self and capitalism and the promise off being able to work hard and do well in life, which means succeed and money, right? For that for many, many Americans, they’re living below the poverty line, many, many more than in Scandinavian countries. So the irony is that this system that was set up to enable people to prosper is not actually enabling most, the majority to prosper, nor is it making them happy. Sorry, I’ve gotten on my soapbox here.

P: [Laugh] I’m letting you go.

M: This has gotten very political. Anyway, so.

P: We’ve gone away from the mead and the cider and the fire. [Laugh]

M: And we’re about to head over time. So let’s get back to Hygge, how do you practise it?

P: How do you practise it?

M: So,

1. One it shouldn’t be expensive or fancy. We covered that off.

2. Two it’s about the simple pleasures in life.

3. Three, you’ve got to set the scene, get your warm blankets out, light your roaring fire, get your cup of tea and get your comfy clothes on with your elastic waistband.

P: [Laugh] So this is appropriate that, you know, I could take my clothes off at this moment.

M: And Leah if you’re listening, absolutely take off your bra.

P: [Laugh] First thing that happens when she walks in the room.

M: [Laugh]

P: I just shared that with the world! She’s gonna love me for that.

M: And then lastly;

4. You’ve got to add this on. And this is where I was like, it’s not about moderation. It’s about a little bit of indulgence, but within reason, get some comfort foods in there.

P: Tim Tams, lamington’s.

M: Ben and Jerry’s ice cream, cheese. I can’t eat cheese anymore cause I’m allergic but yeah…

P: I’m loving this topic more. It kind of links back into one of our other episodes about Ikigai, the Japanese art of fruitful living.

M: Meaning, finding meaning. So Ikigai I think, is how Japanese find meaning and purpose in life. This is how the Scandinavian or Danish in particular do self-care.

P: Yeah, right.

M: I think that’s the difference between the two.

P: Yeah, very true.

M: And I think you can do both.

P: Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, but I like this, I like this example.

M: Absolutely.

P: We could all be a little bit more like the Danes.

M: Cheers to that. So we are sitting on my bed under blankets.

P: Doing Hygge with Martinis.

M: We thought we could not talk about this without doing it for you.

[Drinks click]

P: Well, that was very nice. [Laugh]

M: On that note.

P: [Sings a note] Aaaahhhh… what was that a D?

M: [Laugh] so, thank you for joining us today if you want hear more please remember to subscribe and like this podcast. And remember, you can find us at www.marieskelton.com. A site about how to find balance, happiness and resilience in your life, including some really practical tips and resources is to get you started on your happiness journey. Please do check out the site and right to ask to let us know if you would like us to cover any specific topics or if you’d like to give us feedback, would love to hear from you.

P: Definitely.

M: Until next time.

P: Choose happiness.

[Happy exit music]

Related content: Podcast: Finding Purpose with the Japanese Secret of Ikigai (E18), Podcast: Designing Happy Cities (E19)

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