Podcast

P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.

M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.

M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.

P: Plus, sometimes I think we’re kind of funny.

M: We are back.

P: And this week we are talking about finding your purpose.

M: Solving the world issues here.

P: Oh, solving the world issues?

M: Well isn’t that purpose.

P: Well okay, that’s your interpretation, I’ve got a different one.

M: World Peace.

P: Laugh!

M: Isn’t that where we’re going with this.

P: It’s a very beauty pageant response, Marie.

M & P: Laughter

M: Just to be clear, I’ve never been in a beauty pageant in my life.

P: Laugh!

M: There’s a reason I’m doing podcasts and not YouTube videos.

P & M: Laughter

P: Oh, I didn’t realize that I needed to dress up here. I’m in my tracky-dacks and a t-shirt, laugh.

M: Yeah, I have been since the pandemic started.

P & M: Laughter

M: So, we’re in the same boat there.

P: Laugh.

M: But today we are talking about purpose.

P: What is a purpose? What’s your purpose? There’s a song cue in there but…Ok, I won’t go there.

M: Okay, we won’t go there.

[Purpose] is, well you can think of it like an overarching sense of what matters in your life.

P: Ok.

M: So, it’s the thing that gets you up in the morning or that gets you excited.

P: Well, I like the excited bit.

M: Yeah, so some people wake up in the mornings not grumpy.

P: What!

M: Laugh!

P: Who are these strange people?

M: I know!!

P & M: Laughter

M: It’s something that you strive towards or you enjoy doing.

P: True.

M: That brings passion and excitement to your life.

P: Is it a harbinger of passion or is passion part of purpose?

M: …Yes.

P & M: Laugh!

P: Well, I guess the question is if you have passion, do you automatically have purpose? Or does passion come out of the finding your purpose?

M: Bit of both, definitely the second one. But it’s pretty hard to be passionate about stuff you don’t care about. So, having that that meaning and that purpose.

P: It’s like the cherry on top scenario.

M: Not so much. You need to have purpose or meaning. You need to care about stuff to be passionate about it.

P: So, you need to have purpose first.

M: Yes.

P: To have passion.

M: Yes. They’re very interlinked. They’re, as always, is a whole lot of research –

P: Laugh.

M: – in particular when people say that they have purpose, they are happier.

P: Ok. Why?

M: Why?

P: Why?

M: Why a lot of things.

P & M: Laugh!

M: So, purposeful people are not only happier, but they live longer and healthier lives.

P: Mmm.

M: There’s a longitudinal study that found that a single standard deviation increase in purpose reduced the risk of dying by 15%.

P: Wow, that’s big. What’s a standard deviation of purpose?

M: I have to go look at the actual numbers, but, you know, if you go up by 1% or one number.

P: Ok.

M: So, reduce the risk of dying in the next decade by 15%. That’s big, and that holds regardless of age or the age at which people identify their purpose.

P: Oh, that’s interesting because we’ve talked before about retiring and the dangers of retiring and having nothing to get up for, interesting that that transcends age brackets. I find that’s very interesting.

M: Well, I think that the statistic that we’ve quoted before is that 40% of people who retire end up depressed within a year.

P: Mmm.

M: And a lot of the time it is because they’ve taken that purpose and meaning away.

P: Yes.

M: And not only that, they also, it’s a double whammy when you retire from work, you lose not only your purpose and meaning, but you also lose the social connections.

P: If you’ve only used social connections through your workplace identity, yeah.

M: And if you only had purpose through your work, and in our Western society –

P: Workplaces can be multi layered.

M: Oh, absolutely.

P: It’s like an onion.

M & P: Laughter!

M: Are we going to quote Shrek?

P: Yeah! Laugh.

M: All right, so looking in our capitalist Western society, most people equate purpose with work.

P: Mmm.

M: It’s really important to say that they are not mutually inclusive. They do not have to be the same thing. And in fact, very few of us are lucky enough to truly find that wake up in the morning singing, happy effect –

P: Laughter.

M: – from our jobs.

P: Very few, yes.

M: It is a luxury that very few of us have.

P: Yes.

M: And so, the question then is, if you’re not getting purpose from your job, how can you tailor your job or your workplace or your industry so that you get a little bit more purpose? But also, how can you do things outside of that 40 hour workweek that will bring you purpose?

P: Yeah, definitely.

M: So going back to just a few more stats here there is a Rush Memory and Aging project, which began in 1997, found that people with a sense of purpose were:

2.5 times more likely to be free of dementia, they were

22% less likely to exhibit risk factors for stroke, and

52% less likely to have experienced a stroke.

P: That’s a big number.

M: Yep.

P: The dementia one is an interesting one so purpose, I can see the relationship between that, because when you wake up with a purpose or if you if you find something that you have a goal or something to strive for, then you are involved in sort of a neurological activation.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: Let’s try –

M: Using your mind.

P: You’re using your mind a lot more and your resourcing things, you’re being creative, you’re having to solve problems still and the small amount of research that I’ve done on dementia is that things like sudoku just aren’t enough. Brain training concept in terms of keeping your mind active isn’t enough to way lay the onset of dementia and Parkinson’s disease and those neurological conditions. It needs to be something more and one of those is incorporating movement with your movement patterning, so things like dancing and sport come into it, co-ordination.

M: Social.

P: Yeah.

M: Adding a social layer in there as well. So, loneliness is a real – sitting is the new smoking, maybe loneliness is the new sitting.

P & M: Laugh.

M: But the negative health impacts of poor social connection are so wide and varied, including negative impacts on dementia. A lot of this stuff that we talk about on the podcast is so interlinked being able to find meaning, perhaps through volunteering at an organisation that has personal meaning for you and having the connections of the people that you volunteer with and bringing new friendships and relationships into your life and maybe walking there and back on the way.

P: Laugh. Yeah.

M: That’s one activity you can do yeah, and bring it all together into one.

P: Multi factorial purpose.

M: Laugh, definitely. So we’ve talked about individual purpose.

P: Ok.

M: There’s also a huge movement there has been for years and years with corporate and companies about giving people purpose in their jobs. Now this is a little bit harder, right, because if you work for I don’t know, a mining company?

P: Gosh.

M: A big bank?

P: Yep.

M: You know, the list goes on.

P: How do you find purpose within those big corporations?

M: Exactly. How can you find purpose if you don’t necessarily, if your values don’t align with the company’s purpose.

P: Mmm.

M: There is definitely good research that shows that you can have purpose around your role in what you do in your role, even if you don’t necessarily align with the companies’ values.

P: Mmm. Yep.

M: So, it’s not an all or nothing.

P: No, it’s fulfilling an aspect of it.

M: Yep.

P: So, it’s choosing a path and purpose.

M: You might be an accountant for a mining company, and you might not agree with mining. But you can still do your job to the best of your abilities and learn and grow and do your job well and find meaning from that.

P: Yes.

M: Now, obviously, being an accountant for a company that you agree with what they do would be even better.

P: Laugh.

M: And if you wake up one day and decide you want to start your own not for profit and help with world peace.

P: Laugh!

M: Or whatever it is that you decide, nothing is going to beat that.

P: No.

M: Right?

P: Yeah, of course.

M: As far as purpose.

P: Definitely.

M: But it is really important if you lead a team, if you’re a small business owner, if you have any people working for you and around you or if you’re part of a team, so I what people take responsibility here.

P: Oooh! Initiative.

M: Not just leave it to the manager.

P: Laugh.

M: It is really important that you look for the purpose that you get out of that job, which takes up so many hours in our week.

P: Ok.

M: Because it contributes to your employee experience, which is linked to higher levels of engagement, stronger organisational loyalty. So, people will stay with the team for longer, which is very valuable in today’s day and age, where people don’t stay for very long and it increases feelings of well-being. So again, if you can find purpose at work, it’s going to impact your personal well-being and happiness and resilience levels.

P: Mmm.

M: And so, people who find purpose at work that aligns with their values. They get more meaning from their roles, they’re more productive and they out-perform their peers. And for those companies out there who are thinking this is all a load of baloney, there’s a positive correlation between employees who are engaged and have purpose and revenue.

P: Oh! Money, money, money, money, money, laugh!

M: Mmm hmm.

P: A bottom line, there it is folks. On that concept of finding purpose. When you when you first mentioned to me that we were doing purpose today, the first place I went to was small matters of purpose. So a lot of people think of purpose being this big, overarching statement that you live your life by. You should have it plastered on your bedroom wall. So you see it when you wake up. It should be this massive statement that is like, you know Martin Luther King or something like that.

M: I believe in world peace!

P: There we go. Boom! But purpose doesn’t have to be that grand. It can be really small, and it can be tiny. And I reference Rebecca Teasdale, who is an executive coach in America, on she read an article in one of her publications on recognising the small moments of purpose. And it was all about a conversation that she had in a cab after she gotten home from an overseas trip. She was exhausted, she was tired. The cab driver started to engage her, she immediately went to [thinking] ‘oh, don’t talk to me, I’m exhausted, I’m tired, I just want my space.’ But she chose to engage back, and she said the conversation was very interesting because it made her realise that those small interactions can sometimes be enough purpose for the day.

M: Yes.

P: So, don’t dismiss the retail assistant, don’t dismiss the train driver or the bus driver. Those small moments can be your purpose in terms of trying to engage with 10 people that you don’t know in a day, and that can be a big enough purpose for you to bring about the same feelings that you’re talking about with those grand sweeping ideals that we live by.

M: So you’re talking about engaging with those people when they ask, What do you do?

P: Yes, or the opportunity to engage in a cab, for example, instead of retreating into your own headspace, which we all need to do sometimes don’t get me wrong.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: There is an opportunity to grab those small one to two minute interactions and make them a win for yourself if you can recognise those wins that also can lead to other, bigger, grander purpose statements. Again, it’s like a practise session you’re practising finding the purpose in each interaction, which needs to find a purpose in a day, finding a purpose in a month, finding a purpose in life.

M: Okay, all right.

P: It’s a tool.

M: Nice. So, I had a couple of other exercises that I thought I could run you through.

P: Sure.

M: These are great exercises.

P: You always say that.

M & P: Laughter!

P: And I sit there going ‘do I have my cynic hat on now?’

M: Laugh! No, these are science backed exercises.

P: You know I don’t like audience participation.

M & P: Laugh!

M: So, if you are in the audience, maybe get a pen and paper or definitely have a look at the transcript, because these will be in there.

P: Laugh.

M: So the first thing, and this is big at the moment. This is what a lot of Positive Psychologists and Neuroscientists and HR Professionals are all looking at, and it’s about identifying your strengths.

P: Oh, ok. Laugh.

M: So the logic used to be that you should understand your strengths and your weaknesses.

P: Yes, I remember that being talked about.

M: Mmm hmm. And every person who’s ever done any training for an interview has been told, ‘what are your weaknesses? Make sure you know what your weakness are.’

P: Tell me about your weakness? What don’t you do well? ‘Nothing! I’m Fabulous!’

M & P: Laughter.

M: So that the current thinking is that you shouldn’t be spending all this time on making your weaknesses better so that you’re completely well rounded and perfect. It’s just not do-able. It’s not possible.

P: Embrace your flaws.

M: Well, understand your flaws, and maybe if it truly is holding you back, do a bit of work there. But more importantly, if you want to find your purpose, focus on your strengths.

P: Because they will lead you.

M: Because that’s what you’re good at and what you’re good at, aligns with what you want to do, then double down on that.

P: Ok.

M: So, the current thinking is focus on your strengths. Obviously, being aware is still very important. But spend some time thinking and answering some of the following questions about your strengths.

P: Ooh! Is this like a ten second thing?

M: This is not a time to be modest, and no it is not a ten second thing.

P: Ok.

M: So, sit down with a pen, I’ll ask you a couple, Pete. So, –

P: I’m ready, go.

M: What is the best thing about you?

P: … crickets, laugh.

M: Your sense of humour, great. Next –

P: Laughter! Did you just answer for me.

M: Laugh!

P: Marie, can I answer? Marie? Marie!

M & P: Laugh!

M: – What is your most significant achievement?

P: Oooh, a career where I started like –

M: You’re a professional dancer, just for everyone listening at home who didn’t have that cryptic [insight].

P: You dropped the D word. Laugh. – where I was behind the eight ball from the start.

M: A successful career, as a professional Dancer.

P: Okay.

M: So, I won’t go into all of them, because as great as you are, Pete, you don’t need to spend the last half of our podcast talking about how fabulous you are.

P: Laugh!

M: But the rest of the questions:

What is the best thing about you?
What do you like most about yourself?
What are you like when you’re at your best?
What or who brings out the best in you?
What is your most significant achievement?
How have your strengths helped you in the past?
How can your strengths help you in the future?

P: I did an essay on that [last one]!

M: And once you’ve sat down and really thought through this and really been not modest, firstly.

P: Mmm.

M: But also truthful.

P: Yep.

M: And once you’ve got a good grasp of your strengths, then the trick is to commit to using them in a new way at least once a week.

P: Oh! a new way?

M: Mmm hmm. So, whether you’re good with people and so you decide to have that conversation with the taxi driver.

P: Ok, yeah.

M: Or to attend more networking events, or to mentor someone, or coach them.

P: Yeah.

M: There’s a whole lot of ways that you can use those people skills, if that’s what your strength is –

P: Yeah.

M: – in different and new ways, and to keep flexing that muscle, if that’s what you’re good at, double down on it and really become excellent at it.

P: Hmm. I like it, that kind of narrows into what I was saying before about using the small moments and using the small exercises.

M: Yeah.

P: As you were saying, flexing the muscle, doubling down on the skills. I like that. Finding your own way is challenging.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: Sometimes it’s difficult to come up with new ways to use a skill set.

M: Yes.

P: That can be some creative thinking right there.

M: Which is good, a bit of creative thinking never hurt anyone.

P: Yes.

M: All right, so the second way to find your purpose and there are a million ways to find your purpose. But if you think back to all of those vocation surveys that you did in high school. [Unenthused voice] I got gardener…

P & M: Laugh!

M: Yep. You can tell how much that suits me.

P: That’s funny! I’ve seen your herb garden.

M: I kill everything, laugh.

P: Laugh!

M: So anyway, if you want to take this a little step further. We have spoken before about the Japanese [art of] Ikigai.

P: Ah Yes.

M: Do you want to talk us through Ikigai, Pete?

P: Oh, oh. The art of Ikigai, the art of finding your purpose. Yeah, so Ikigai is all about a little place in Okinawa which is an island off the end of Japan, which is one of the blue zones of the world.

M: Yes it is.

P: With the centenarians, people who live with longest and have a great quality of life. And you have this whole concept of the practise of finding the reason for being and finding that reason for getting out of bed in the morning. And it’s about living a fulfilling and happy life and each day contributes to that fulfilment. So if your job is to sweep the floor of the house or the porch, that is what you wake up for. And that is one of the first things you go for. What you do it so well and you commit to it and you give it your all, and you even apply your, your, your best to being better at it in the future, even if it is a domestic task, you see how excited I am about sweeping the front porch!?

M: Yes.

P: And this is what these people believe in, they believe in finding the passion and purpose.

M: Well, finding the passion, yes.

P: Finding the passion in what you’re doing and committing to that and investing in it.

There is a lovely story of a makeup company that had make-up brushes and they had a little Japanese Lady. And this company was known for the quality of their make-up brushes and a guy came over from America, and he wanted to meet the manufacturer and they said, ‘Oh, we have one department for the makeup brushes’ and he took him out the back into this small little room in the back of the factory, and there was a Japanese woman, and she handmade the makeup brushes, every single hair.

That was her role. She loved it. She did that job for years, and that was the application because it was her passion to make the best brush each time she did.

M: That is a beautiful story, and I hope we can all find our makeup brush. But just to circle back on, how to find your Ikigai and what it is. So Ikigai is about, if you’ve ever looked at a Venn diagram and different things and how they intersect, it’s about identifying:

what you love;

what you’re good at;

what the world needs; and

what you could be paid for.

M: And the intersection between those four things is your Ikigai. And that could be for you making makeup brushes. It could be helping kids with cancer. It could be… world peace.

P & M: Laugh!

M: We’ll finish on that note.

P: That old nugget.

M: Laugh. But whatever it is for you. So, what you love, what you’re good at, what the world needs and what you can be paid for. And the intersection of those things is where your Ikigai is.

P: Nice.

M: All right. So that is another way. One of many, many ways that you can find purpose in life and again finding that purpose. And for some people it’s coaching little league on the weekends or giving back to their community in various ways. Volunteering is often a really good way to find that purpose and that meaning and get those social connections.

P: Mmm.

M: So, if you’re maybe not finding the meaning and purpose in your day job, look at some volunteering opportunities.

P: Look at something else.

M: Look at what has brought you joy and passion and what you’re good at and find a way to get involved in that outside of your work.

P: Ok, nice.

M: All right.

P: Enjoy finding your purpose people.

M: And living longer and happier. And on that note, we’ll see you next week.

P: Laugh. Bye 😊

M: Bye 😊

[Happy exit music – background]

M: Thanks for joining us today if you want to hear more please remember to subscribe and like this podcast and remember you can find us at www.marieskelton.com, where you can also send in questions or propose a topic.

P: And if you like our little show we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.

M: Until next time.

M & P: Choose happiness!

[Exit music fadeout]

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Emotional First Aid (E65)

03/05/2021 by Marie

Happiness for Cynics podcast

This week, Marie and Pete talk about recognising emotional trauma and how to apply emotional first aid to your psychological cuts and bruises.

Show notes

Transcript

[Happy intro music -background]

M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.

P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.

M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.

P: Plus, sometimes I think we’re kind of funny.

[Intro music fadeout]

M: And we’re back!

P: Hi, hi, hi!

M: Hey.

P: Muz, how ya doing?

M: I am a bit frantic and frazzled this week.

P: Oh.

M: So I have, in response, upped up my physical exercise, I’ve been on the treadmill and just making sure I’m getting enough sleep. It’s just a busy time at work and with everything else. I’ve kind of got two jobs that I’m juggling.

P: Mmm, yes.

M: So, I wouldn’t trade it for anything in the world.

P: Laugh.

M: I’m just so grateful to have such a full and satisfying life. But it’s just a bit busy at the moment. How about you?

P: I’m good, I’m good. I’m pumped and ready to go. I excited about this week’s episode because –

M: Because this one’s all you, isn’t it Pete?

P: It is.

M: What are we talking about?

P: Well, I led with that question. I was hoping you were going to say something else along the lines of, you know, my body’s a bit sore and I could go, ‘Oh, that’s great, I can fix that!’

M: Laugh.

P: Because I’m a sports therapist and I know what to do with broken bodies, But you brought up a really interesting point because you sAid frantic and frazzled and we’re talking about emotional First Aid this week. And when someone comes to you and says ‘I’m frantic, I’m frazzled’, it’s like …crickets.

M: Laugh, mmm hmm.

P: That not good, what are we doing for Sunday dinner?

M & P: Laughter.

P: Let’s move on, laugh.

M: Yep.

P: And the reason that we do this is because not many of us know how to deal with emotions or apply the First Aid for emotional First Aid.

M: And this is such an important topic. I Don’t know why it’s taken us a whole year to get to this. But we are encouraging people to do self-analysis and to understand their emotions and their triggers and emotional baggage and to work through it, whether by journaling or by talking to other people. Yet as a society, there are so many people out there who just freak out. They don’t know what to when someone says, ‘you know, I’m not doing so well.’

P: The change is in the winds though Marie, it is changing. We’re moving away for a biological biomedical health model. We’re now looking at the socio ecological model of health and that means we now GP’s pharmacists, all these health professionals are now taking into account social issues, people’s emotions. It has become a change and a shift and 100 years ago, this change and shift happened around physical health. All of a sudden we became aware that we have to take care of ourselves.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: We have to eat well. We have to, not imbibe in too much rich food otherwise we get gout and that brought about a 50% increase in life expectancy. This is 100 years ago and the person that will be referencing today, who is Dr Guy Winch, he talks about that at the moment we’re on a different bent in that were becoming aware of our emotional health.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And people are now becoming more okay with the terminology around psychological health, mental well-being, understanding social equity and all these sorts of terms that 20 years ago, 40 years ago maybe we didn’t even know about. But now it’s so much more in our faces that’s being promoted so much more because this stuff has an impact on our mortality. If we don’t address this stuff, we die! Laugh!

M: We were saying that around here, don’t we?

P: We do! Laugh. We say it a lot.

M: It’s actually really topical because this month, May, is Mental Health Awareness Month in Australia, and I’m talking on a panel at my corporate gig in a week’s time. So I think I agree with you 100%. We are having these discussions in the corporate setting, as well, which is where a huge portion of our population work, not all of them by any means, but a large portion.

P: Yeah.

M: And corporate are also changing their language and driving change around this. They’re talking to older generations and men, people who traditionally have shunned a lot of this talk because they were tougher.

P: Yeah, it wasn’t accepted. It wasn’t encouraged in our society, for men, particularly to be in touch with their emotions. That’s out the window, now. That’s gone. The tough male model is gone, thank goodness.

M: Well… a lot of it.

P: Yeah.

M: We’re opening up the conversation. I think there’s still a long way to go, yeah.

P: The expectation, though there is now that boys are allowed to cry.

M: Yeah.

P: And that, that’s a good thing because, yes, it’s good to express our emotions. I’m referencing a very interesting psychologist this week from America, Guy Winch. Who some of you may know from his very famous Ted talk on emotional First Aid. He was interviewed as one of one of the First speakers for Being a Better Human, which is a new Ted talk series which is coming out. And his talk on emotional First Aid that he also go to Google was voted as one of the most popular Ted talks ever.

M: Hmm.

P: So reasonably well known. He’s published two books, one that we’re looking at today is his book on emotional thirst Aid, which is entitled The Practical Strategies for Treating Failure, Rejection, Guilt and other everyday Psychological Injuries.

M: So is that –

P: Do you have any psychological injuries?

M: Oh my gosh yes! Who doesn’t?

P: Laugh.

M: My psychological damage is giving me a crick my neck. Seriously.

P: [Silly voice] Ay, I got such a crick in my neck, it is such a sunder!

M & P: Laughter!

M: I’ve even got a bag, thank you from Life School, which says emotional baggage.

P & M: Laughter!

P: But it’s true we all have emotional baggage.

M: And you’ve got to open it up and dig around in there sometimes –

P: Absolutely.

M: – because otherwise it drives you and drives your behaviours and reactions without you even realising it.

P: Exactly and when you listen to this guy’s talk, it’s amazing how much it drives. So we could take a few examples today. So let’s work through the main –

M: Well, before you get started. What do you mean by emotional First Aid?

P: Emotional First Aid is knowing how to apply a Band Aid to a psychological trauma. So if you’ve had a bad day at work and your boss has pulled you into a meeting and sAid that presentation that you gave last week was substandard, you didn’t address this, you didn’t address that, I’m really disappointed in your performance. I think you need to go away and actually have a think about this again before you present it again to the national forum on next week and for God’s sake, do a better job this time. How would that make you feel?

M: Didn’t even get a shit sandwich.

P: Laugh!

M: Just went straight for the kill. I’d be looking for a new boss of that’s how they do feedback.

P: Laugh!

M: But I’d also be feeling pretty crappy.

P & M: Laugh!

M: Now in the real world, corporate leaders are taught to compliment, deliver the hard stuff and then finish it with a compliment.

P: Yeah, I missed that one. I come from the art’s, it’s just cutthroat, Laugh. ‘That plier was shit, do it again!’

M & P: Laughter!

P: So, with those sorts of traumas, that’s as bad as a wound, that’s an emotional wound. So, your ego’s taken a hit, your self-esteem has taken a hit and you’re feeling pretty low. How do you address that?

M: How do you personally address it for you? Or how do you help friends and family and colleagues?

P: Let’s take the, let’s take the personal straight away because it is up to us to look after our own health.

M: Yep.

P: And, if I cut my finger when I was cooking, I’d know to wash it, put some Dettol on it and put a Band Aid on it because I don’t want it to get to get infected. We should have that same understanding when we have an emotional wound. So, if someone tells us we’re crap, we should have immediate steps in place that we know that was a hit to my ego. So now I need to go and do some self-esteem work, however minor or free it is, or do something that’s good for myself. Rather than going and finding a bowl of ice cream and eating it all in one go, opening up the wine bottle –

M: [Longing Sigh] Oh…

P: – or going and doing some retail therapy.

M: Can we do both?

P: Laugh. That’s the point. These things are not emotional Band Aids. They don’t help the injury, they waylay it.

M: No, but if you feel good in the moment, laugh!

P: They smother it. They push it down and Guy Winch –

M: Are they part of a holistic strategy, you know, multi-pronged attack, laugh!

P: No, no. I’m going to say no.

M: Darn it, alright.

P & M: Laughter!

P: Because they just suppress the issue. So high carb – sugar rush. So it releases endorphins in your system and you don’t think about the injury. Alcohol suppresses all the all the emotions. The problem with alcohol and Doctor Winch uses this example is it’s going to come back up.

M: Laugh.

P: They’re going to vomit that alcohol back up. So, it’s really important that we have more fundamentally beneficial First Aid approaches when we have a psychological trauma.

Let’s take something like failure.

So failure is a psychological wound.

M: Yes.

P: When you fail at something, you’re not feeling good.

M: I never fail.

P: Oohhh…?

M & P: Laughter!

M: I just don’t do things that I’m going to fail at.

P & M: Laugh!

M: That’s why. No, I lie, I lie. I’ve had some shocking failures in my life.

P: Yeah, and you’ve gotta bounce back from those. So what we’re talking about here is the way that failure registers with us the mind tricks us into not being able to function and do the simplest tasks. Things like going and doing the washing, going to the fridge and getting the milk out of the fridge and you drop it and it falls on the floor and you end up in a puddle of a mess because you’ve had a hard day.

M: Laugh.

P: Those sort of simple tasks we can’t do when we have failure because our cognition and our ability to just coordinate is impacted by our emotion. The mind is a hard thing to change once it’s been convinced that it’s a failure. So, if someone says your shit, then it’s really hard to actually bring yourself up going ‘No, I’m not’; unless you’ve got really good self-esteem in the first place, it’s really hard to go ‘No, I’m not shit, I have these qualities, and I can do this, and this, and this, and this, and that’s going to make you feel better and that is an emotional Band Aid.

M: I’ve actually seen people with failure, baggage and the huge impact can have on their happiness levels.

P: Definitely.

M: They’re going to operate in society and at the smallest challenges they run away rather than step up and learn or grow or fight.

P: Mmm, yep.

M: And it’s such a limiting thing to carry around in your emotional baggage.

P: Absolutely, definitely and it doesn’t have to be a big failure. It can be a small failure if can happened when you were a teenager.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: That informs so much of your developmental understanding. And this in a psychological wound, so we have to know how to take that up and take care of it and let it heal. So there are different things that we can do.

M: Also, failure is part of life, right?

P: It is.

M: Let’s be really honest. So when kids experience failure, it’s about helping them to develop the tools to pick themselves up and try again, rather than trying to stop them from experiencing that failure because experiencing it is still so important.

P: Yes, so much.

M: And we found with the latest generation of parents who stereotypically have over parented and tried to protect their kids. And they’ve gone in and fought with the teacher who gave them the B, so they could get an A.

P: Mmm, yeah.

M: And all of those things, have had arguments with the coach who benched them, and these kids have never learned to fail.

P: Exactly.

M: And they hit the real world.

P: And they can’t cope.

M: Parents can’t go in to bat for them to get the promotion, laugh.

P: Absolutely, definitely.

M: And they buckle at the first sign of any pressure because they’re not used to stepping up in the face of that.

P: Yeah, I’ve got a great example from when I was doing my study when I was a massage therapist and I knew my nutrition lecturer really well. We were friends. We were colleagues. And we went out for dinner one night and she said,

‘Oh, so we have the test on Monday, are you ready?

And I’m like ‘No! I haven’t been able to study!’

And she goes ‘That’s ok. I’ll just throw you a question. Why don’t we eat meat when we’re unwell?’

And I just sat there going ‘I don’t know!

M: Laugh!’

P: And Kirsty looked at me and said ‘It’s okay Pete, it’s alright.’ She said it’s because we don’t want iron in our system because that’s what the bacteria feeds off when we’re ill. We don’t want iron in our system.

M: I just learned something?

P: Exactly. And do you know what? I have never forgotten that conversation since 15 years ago. So now whenever it comes up I’m like ‘ah, we don’t eat meat when we’re sick!’

M & P: Laugh!

P: It’s stuck in my brain.

M: I’m betting the science has changed since then, now we have to eat meat, laugh.

P: Oh, I’m sticking with it because I had an emotional response.

M: Yep.

P: And It triggered a memory in me, and it happened a couple weeks ago in uni. I’ve got the same thing, I got something wrong. I will now always know that DALY always stands for disability-adjusted life years.

M: Laugh.

P: So it’s there, you had those emotional responses, they are a step to learning. Let’s take one more example.

Let’s look at something which is really fun, ruminating.

The brooder, we all know a brooder, don’t we?

M: We need to redefine your definition of fun.

P: Laugh! A person who sits there and creates and thinks some things through endlessly. This is a real risk of psychological trauma because it puts you in that cycle again, and it doesn’t let you come up with any solutions again that’s not exercising the right kind of brain waves that allows you to achieve tasks that affects your work ethic and affects your achievement scales, it affects your self-worth. Because you’re not seeing any positivity coming out of a situation, you start fantasising. You start creating situations that are never going to happen. You know ‘the FBI are going to come from a chimney at night and gag me and take me away because I didn’t put the toilet seat down.

M: Are you fantasising? Or ruminating? Laugh!

P: Well, that’s the thing. One thing leads to another. That’s a serious example, though.

M: I think in a way we’ve covered this in the past with conversations about gratitude and how we’re actually wired to see the negative. The person who noticed the tiger that was stalking them was more likely to live than the guy who was skipping through the daisy field oblivious to the, you know, the threat, right? So, we’re wired, biologically wired to look for the negative, and that can really lead down a really bad path if you don’t stop it.

P: Yeah.

M: And so a really great way again to counter act that, is to bring a gratitude practise into your daily life.

P: Definitely.

M: It is so simple and easy. And it helps you to scan your environment for positives.

P: Mmm.

M: And balance that out, and might even to a certain degree, depending on what your brooding or ruminating on might even short circuit a lot of that behaviour and retrain your brain to not ruminate.

P: Science says you are right, Marie.

M & P: Laugh!

M: How about that, laugh.

P: Dr Winch talks about it in terms of adaptive versus maladaptive, so self-reflection can be maladaptive. When you become a ruminator and your self-reflecting and you go down that negative cycle and you keep looking for the negatives that’s maladaptive reasoning and that has powerful affect because it leads to alcoholism, eating disorders, increased cortisol and cardiovascular disease, so the science says, I’m not going to quote any studies because we’re running out of time. He calls it picking at emotional scabs.

You’re not letting something heal because you keep driving a knife into the wounds going ‘Yeah, let’s put this knife in deeper and see how deep it can go.’ Whereas adaptive reasoning is exactly what you’re talking about, Marie. It’s taking some time to be positive and do some real work around, trying to bring yourself up and bring yourself out of that brooding, only seeing the negative cycle.

M: There’s a great course that life line used to run called Accidental Counsellor, which I took last year, actually, and it teaches people who may be caught off guard who are not mental health professionals how to have conversations and support friends, colleagues, people at work, customers even who’ve come out with, you know, some really tough, tough disclosures at times.

P: Yeah

M: And if you’re not prepared for it or equipped, what do you say? How do you support that person and give them what they need? But then, also on the flip side, how do you not give them too much advice or coaching because you’re not the professional, right?

P: Exactly.

M: And one of the great things that we learned in that session was that you can be there for someone too much.

P: Hmm.

M: If you’re letting them talk too much, and they’re in that ruminating space, and all they’re doing is just reinforcing the negative. There comes a time where, you know, as the friend who’s supporting you need to say, ‘enough’s enough, this isn’t working. This is ruminating.’

P: This is brooding and it’s not beneficial.

M: I’m supporting you.

P: Yeah, and I’m enabling you to do more of it. Someone has to come in at some point and cut that that process off. Otherwise, we get so many health risks coming forward.

M: Yeah, so it’s not just with yourself, but with friends who may be going through a tough time. You can listen and listen and listen. And that is the number one recommendation out of this course for how to help people who are going through tough times. Listen.

P: Yeah.

M: Sit and listen and validate what they’re feeling, but there comes a point where you need to stop listening and move them to a professional or even extricate yourself out in the right way.

P: And you can do that on yourself as well, you can, listen, listen and listen to yourself talk, but there comes a point where you going ‘Right, enough’s enough. Let’s take, take some action. And if that action is going getting some professional help then that’s great, because getting that is a positive step we’re taking action.

M: Yep.

P: I know we’re pushed for time,

but I do want to mention one more, rejection.

This is a psychological trauma, which a lot of people go through, it can be rejection from a job. It can rejection from a lover. It could be rejection from a date. I mean, who hasn’t gone on a date and have someone get up in the first ten minutes and say ‘Sorry, I’m out.’ It’s like, Oh my God, I feel terrible. [Sad laugh]

M: Is that common?

P: Not if you’re married. Laugh.

M: Well, I’ve been married for 15 years. [actually, 9 years this December]

P & M: Laughter!

P: Online dating. We have so much interaction on an online sphere, and then you go and meet the person and you realise, oh my God, they’re completely not who I thought they were and I actually have nothing in common with this person.

M: Mmm.

P: So people will back out in five minutes flat.

M: Which I think is fine, but you can deliver that message in a more sensitive way, laugh.

P: Absolutely. So, let’s look at that feeling of rejection.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: Now, it’s interesting. The science behind this was done using a ball game. So, I’m number one, Marie you’re number two, let’s make Francis number three. I throw the ball to you, you throw the ball to Francis, and Francis throws the ball to me.

Then halfway through this, we keep doing it, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la; And then all of a sudden, Francis throws the ball back to you, and then you throw to Francis and Francis throws it back to you. Then all of a sudden, I’m standing there going ‘no one’s throwing me the ball’. That’s going to make me feel rejected. It’s going to make me feel ostracised.

M: Piggy in the middle!

P: Laugh! As a piggy though, I’m active cause I’m trying to catch the ball. This, I’m not even involved in the ball game anymore because you guys have decided to keep it between the two of you.

M: Yep.

P: So what they did was they took some MRI scans of the person who was feeling these feelings of rejection. What they found was the pathways, the neural pathways that activated during the feelings of rejected mimic the pain pathways that we experience when we are in physical pain.

The reason behind this, when we were running around in tribes, as nomads we needed to make sure that we were part of the clan. Otherwise, we died. Literally, we could not survive as a solo human being in the wild because something would eat us or we wouldn’t be able to get enough food.

So the body developed this in our evolutionary history. This process to let us know something is wrong. We’re going to make you feel pain because you need to get involved with the group again.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And that’s a lever, that’s creating something that makes us go back to the group. And it’s really important because it can be as simple as a ball game and it can leave someone feeling out. And if we don’t act on that, if we don’t know to recognise that as ‘I’m being excluded, somehow I have to find a way to connect back in with the group’, then we are left feeling ostracised and it results in trauma such as cardiovascular disease, increased cortisol levels, all those things that we’ve talked about in terms of chronic illness and inflammatory responses which have a physical impact on our body.

M: There’s a great book called The 10 Types of Human by Dexter Dias, and he talks about this study [similar to above], and it was actually done on the beach with people playing Frisbee.

P: Laugh.

M: They talk about how this relates to other animals that are social and pack animals as well, there’s some great stories in there. But it is a biological and physiological response about rejection.

P: Yep, definitely. We don’t like it, it’s not just humans, it’s other animals as well.

M: Yep.

P: But we don’t like it, and it’s not good for us. So, learning to identify that and applying the processes of being able to go, that’s an emotional wound, let’s address it, helps to keep us healthy and better and living longer.

M: So you’ve got a few others here, loneliness and guilt, and we’re out of time. But to wrap up the conversation, I guess, on emotional First Aid, what we’ve done is talked about some of the things that can really lead us down a path of lifelong injuries, mental injuries that we carry with us and into our relationships and everything we do and really what you’re saying here Pete, if I can maybe parrot it back, is that we need to be better at identifying that and short circuiting that.

P: Absolutely.

M: Exploring it, picking at it, but not too much.

P: Yep, laugh. Don’t pick the scab.

M: Yep, laugh.

P: This goes into something that we can talk about later, which is this whole idea we came up with of emotional literacy like we have health literacy, there’s happiness, literacy, there’s emotional literacy. We need to know it and it’s identifying those markers and going ‘ah, this is loneliness, this is what we do for loneliness.’ We need to be better at that. And maybe we can talk about this in another episode about the tips behind how we can address that.

M: Yep.

P: Maybe that’s a different episode that we can do.

M: Sounds good, all right. On that note, we’ll definitely put Guy Winches Ted talk in our show notes for everyone.

P: Yeah.

M: And I’m going to go have a read of that because I haven’t yet, laugh.

P: Yeah, it’s really interesting, he presents it in a really interesting way with some great anecdotes and stories.

M: Love it. All right, well, that’s all we have time for this week. We’ll see you next week.

P: Till next time.

M: Bye.

P: Bye.

[Happy exit music – background]

P: And if you like our little show we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.

M: Until next time.

M & P: Choose happiness.

[Exit music fadeout]

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Laughter is the Best Medicine (E64)

26/04/2021 by Marie

Happiness for Cynics podcast

This week, Marie and Pete talk about why laughter is the best medicine and try out a laughter yoga exercise you can do at home.

Transcript

P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.

M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.

M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.

P: Plus, sometimes I think we’re kind of funny.

P & M: Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha…. (10 sec)

M: All right Pete, welcome back.

P: Hi!

M: Hi, so today we are talking about laughter!

P: Mmm, the joys of laughter, it’s fun! Laugh!

M: Just waiting for you to laugh, I’m like ‘he’ll laugh!’

P: There’s nothing better than a good belly laugh I say.

M: So true, where your cheeks hurt.

P: Yep.

M: Your belly hurts but you keep laughing.

P: Yep.

M: I’m just massaging my cheeks at the moment while talking to you, laugh!

P: Your zygomatic bones, laugh.

M: [Sigh] We’re going to hear a lot more about this as you continue your degree aren’t we?

P: Laugh! I’m going to get very specific and very technical about my anatomy.

M: And I’m gonna pay you out for it.

P: Yes, you will and you’re allowed to.

M: Alright. So, last week I did some education as well, and I intended a lunchtime webinar by the Centre for Optimism, they’re based out of the Melbourne.

P: Oh.

M: Victor Perton, who is ‘that Optimism Man’ runs the centre down there and they’re doing some fabulous stuff. So if you are an optimist already, and want to find your tribe.

P: Laugh.

M: Or maybe you want to be more optimistic, I highly recommend signing up and getting access to all of their resources, but also their lunchtime webinars and morning panel discussions and night-time workshops and all the other fab stuff that they run. So, I went to a talk with a panel of experts and it was about laughter, optimism, resilience and well-being. A real focus on laughter though.

P: OK.

M: And I am still buzzing!

P: Laughter!

M: Loved it, loved it and really, for me, it kind of reminded me that laughter is just so powerful.

P: It so is, yeah.

M: And I’ve even run a laughter workshops at Commonwealth Bank ages ago. So I’ve done laughter yoga workshops but I’d just for gotten.

P: Laugh. Well you can, I mean, the thing is that if you… Like anything, if you’re not flexing a muscle, it’s not, it’s not staying awake.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: Things atrophy if we don’t use them, and I really think that this comes down to a lot of the happiness work that we do. If you fall off the happiness bandwagon and those regular things that you’re involved in, you’ve got to get the momentum rolling again and often that’s the point where people choose that it’s all too hard.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: It’s too hard to be positive, it’s too hard to be optimistic. It is [hard], but once you get it going, it’s really easy to ride that curve. I had a similar situation a couple of weeks ago [with] my new position in my new job; where I, I had a huge day planned, I walked in it’s 7:30 in the morning and I’m not a morning person, everybody knows that.

M: Mmm hmm, laugh.

P: People having 8am massages! Really people, come on, get with! Laugh.

M & P: Laughter!

P: This is an evening activity! Laugh.

So, I sort of walked into work well, straight out the back, and then my boss came up to me about halfway through the day and went ‘hello, are you ok?’ and I went ‘yeah, I’m fine why? I’ve got things to do and places to be.’ And I’d forgotten that in the moment, it’s important to recognise people, be friendly, wake yourself up and use those tools of being positive and kind and all those lovely things that come with momentum. And once you start doing it; It’s like if you start the day that way, it carries throughout the day.

M: Absolutely.

P: I’m a big believer in that and that’s why the first things that you do when you get up out of bed should be something that’s actually really enjoyable or that makes you have a giggle. Put on an episode of Disney it first thing in the morning and see what it does to your mood swings for the day, laugh.

M: Well, I have something if you can’t watch a feature film before you leave the house –

P: Laugh!

M: – that might be a little bit more practical for people who are struggling to get more optimism, laugh.

P: [Singing] The hills are alive…

M & P: Laughter.

M: Or I’ve actually got quite a few friends who Monday morning, listen to our podcast and that’s their weekly reminder to prioritise happiness, which is lovely. Thank you guys.

P: Scares me a little bit when they say to me ‘keep going’ and I’m like ‘why!?’ Laugh.

M: The question is, are they laughing with us or at us?

P: Hopefully with us.

M & P: Laughter!

P: Right, so back to the point.

M: So, I’ve known for a while about the power of laughter to moost… moost your bood?

P: Moost your bood, I like that. Moost your Bood!

M: Boost your mood.

P: Laughter.

M: And it’s a no brainer, it is such a no brainer. You laugh, you feel good.

P: Yeah.

M: I don’t have to be a scientist to know that. But there is a science behind it, and it’s pretty definitive science.

Firstly, it can increase your wellbeing.
It helps to reduce stress.

One of the big ones for all you corporate people or you people starting your massage day at eight in the morning.

P: Laugh.

M: And going is stressed, one of the greatest ways to break that stress cycle is to have a good laugh.

P: Yep, I agree.

M: And the Mayo Clinic in the U. S. Has a huge range of research and riding on the positive effects of laughter and stress reduction.

It decreases your heart rate and your blood pressure; and
it can also relieve muscle tension.

P: Absolutely shaking, vibration.

M: Mmm hmm, and on that note, for those of you who know they should do more movement and exercise in their day. Did you know that a very big belly laugh is actually exercise?

P: Laugh! Ok, yeah alright I’ll give you that one.

M & P: Laugh.

M: Now, it might not be as good as a million other different exercises.

P: Laugh.

M: But it’s still exercise! Laugh. You could count that in your week.

P: Alright, Alright, like that could be 10 steps, laugh.

M: So [laughing] also has a range of other physical benefits, like:

Helping to improve your immune system, which helps you to fight illness.

One of the people on the panel is Roz Ben-Moshe, who is a lecturer and researcher at La Trobe University in Melbourne. She actually wrote a book called ‘Laughing at Cancer, How to Heal with Love, Laughter and Mindfulness’.

P: Oh, I like that.

M: She discovered laughter when she was going through cancer treatment, and I’m not saying that you would replace modern science and medicine with laughter.

P: Mmm.

M: I’m saying, in addition to that.

P: It’s not about replacing; it’s about using with that.

M: Yep, it’s a complimentary technique that can help you get through not only the physical, but the mental part of dealing with cancer.

P: Sure, absolutely.

M: There’s real scientific study that shows that laughter can be so beneficial.

P: Fundamentally, laughter releases dopamine. It’s one of our happy drugs.

M: Mmm.

P: And that’s a big one for keeping the other neurotransmitters going as well. Dopamine, it’s a big precursor to so much other stuff. So fundamentally, at that neuro transmitter-chemical level laughter has a benefit.

M: So, [laughter] is:

Releasing endorphins.

P: Mmm.

M: So that again, as we said, we know you’re happier when you’re laughing.

P: Mmm.

M: But you might not realise it also has long term impacts on your happiness. So not just the short term, in the moment, I’m laughing right now and therefor I’m happier.

P: Yep.

M: There’s also longer-term impacts to your happiness. The other piece here is if you laugh with people, then it strengthens bonds. It makes you closer and trust other people. So, in a corporate environment or a work environment, particularly for new teams that are just forming, introducing ways to laugh together as a team will bond your team a lot faster and create more trust between your team members.

P: Mmm, interesting.

M: And the teams that laugh together, trust more.

P: I like that idea.

M: Not just for crazy yogi’s, because we’re gonna talk about laughter yoga in a second.

P: Laugh.

M: So, going back to that idea, though of long term happiness. We’ve spoken before Pete about you’re happiness set point, it’s that point where you tend to come back to after good events and bad events. You just come back to this base level of happiness.

P: Mmm.

M: And some people are born a little bit happier and with higher set points. Some people are grumpier.

P: Laugh.

M: And they were born that way and they have a lower set point.

P: Laugh.

M: But laughter and deliberate, habitual laughter exercises has been shown to increase your set point. So, you’re not stuck with where you are right now.

P: Mmm, we can always contribute to our base level of happiness that’s for sure.

M: Yeah.

P: That’s what it comes down to a lot of interpretation and doing some of the mindfulness work that we’ve talked about out. Definitely, it’s a plus you know, you want your base point to be higher because we don’t want to negate the ebbs and flows as we talked about before, emotions and meant to take us down they’re meant to take us up, but we want that curve to be to be there and riding that wave. But we do want to come back to that point where there were slightly more than being just bland.

M: Yep.

P: Yep.

M: We’re only here for a short time. I want it to be a good time too.

P: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

M: Yeah. All right, are you up for it, Pete?

P: I’m always up for yoga. I’m rather impressed that you’re about to teach me yoga. I’m really intrigued by how this is gonna go.

M: So, I’m going to start by saying that laughter yoga is the new craze that has really gained steam over the past couple of decades. It’s not that new, actually.

P: Laugh.

M: And all it means is people meet and they come together to laugh together often in a park or an open space.

P: Ok.

M: That’s it. Simple.

P: Alright.

M: Doesn’t necessarily involve folding yourself into a variety of pretzel like poses.

P: But I can do that.

M & P: Laughter.

M: So, for all of you like my husband, who can barely tie his shoes.

P: Laugh!

M: You don’t need to worry about your flexibility in order to do laughter yoga. The yoga part here is more of a nod to the breathing side –

P: Oh ok.

M: – than the movement side. Having said that, you can take it in that direction and combine the two.

P: I’ve done a lot of that too, with movement therapy with happiness.

M: Yes.

P: That’s yes, incredibly powerful, actually and that can really shift emotions and psyches and in a really amazingly positive way.

M: Yes, so I would love to walk you through three exercises that I think people can take to their office, to their workplace.

P: Ok.

M: Remember, when you’re doing this, it’s worth reminding people about the actual benefits and the scientific benefits if you’re trying to get them to opt in.

P: Yep.

M: And secondly, if you are taking it to your work, it’s really important not to pressure anyone or force them to participate and make it an opt in because –

P: Laugh! I force people to exercise every day! I’m putting them on yoga mats and saying ‘do this!’ And then they forget them.

M: Laugh. They’re paying you to do that. They’re not necessarily paying you tell them to do laughter yoga in the office.

P: Laugh, true.

M: But it is, [laughter] is uncomfortable for some people to share with others, and they do feel self-conscious about their laughs and about letting go.

P: Mmm.

M: So, some people may be uncomfortable and would prefer not to participate. It’s just worth remembering that so you should do it within close proximity of them so that they see how much fun you’re having and want to opt in next time.

P & M: Laughter.

P: There we go, lead by example.

M: Now it’s also worth remembering in these exercises that often you need to start with fake laughter at the beginning –

P: This is where a lot of people find it difficult.

M: – and after a while, it becomes authentic.

P: It’s the fake laugh. It’s putting the laugh on, and I was going to come to that afterwards. It’s the fake it ‘til you make it concept, and it’s a hard space to do when you’re feeling crap.

M: Mmm.

P: And when people say, you know, you’ve got to laugh it off. It does actually work because you’ll start doing the fake laugh. Then all of a sudden a giggle will come.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And that’s an amazingly empowering way of changing your situation.

M: Okay, So the first exercise we’re going to do is about starting your day right.

So, maybe could have used this on Wednesday.

P: Laugh.

So this is a quick 60 second exercise that you can add to your morning routine to start your day in a happy mood and set the tone for the rest of the day.

P: All right.

M: So, it’s a great starting place, this one for people who are a bit reluctant to be vulnerable in front of other people. You can do this by yourself in the shower or… I was going to say while brushing your teeth or eating breakfast but…

P: That might be a bit messy, laugh.

P & M: Laughter!

P: Avocado on toast spewed in front of the entire bus stop.

M: Laugh. No.

All right, so I’m just going to grab the clock on my phone and go to the stopwatch. And what we’re going to do is you grab your phone, we start the timer, and for the first 10 seconds, you laugh out loud. You don’t have to feel it, you just have to vocalise ‘Ha, ha, ha.’

P: Ok.

M: And then you do that a few times, it’ll roll from there.

P: Ok.

M: Think of a like an acting class with really bad acting.

P & M: Laughter!

M: So, it doesn’t have to be authentic.

P: Ok.

M: So once we’ve done 10 seconds of ha, ha, ha’s, we’re going to breathe deeply for the next 10 seconds, so that’s probably two deep breaths over 10 seconds. And then we’re going to do those two steps two more times, and that will be 60 seconds.

P: Ok.

M: So that’s it. That’s it. It’s that simple. All right, so we’re going to do it now, we’re going to start timing.

P: Audience participation, I love it!

M: Can you see my phone, Pete.

P: Yes, I can.

M: Okay. All right. Ready?

P: Yeah.

P & M: Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha…. (10 sec)

M: Take a big deep breath. (10 sec) And I do hope that everyone at home is following along. I really encourage you to.

P: Laugh.

M: Look at that smile on your face, Pete. All right, we’re up again.

M: Deep breaths. (10 sec) Last one.

P & M: Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha…. (10 sec)

M: Alright and deep breaths. (10 sec)

That was a bit quick those breaths and I probably wouldn’t do that normally, I don’t want you to hyperventilate.

P: Laugh.

M: But that is it. That is it. That is all the we’re talking about. And if you’re not laughing at us right now on this podcast, I don’t know what else I can do for you, I’m sorry.

P: Laughter! This’s part of the attraction of morning radio. I think a lot of people use morning talk show radio to try and have a bit of a giggle in their commute to work or first thing in the morning. It’s really important that people try and access their happiness in those first hours when you’re up, because it does set the tone for the day.

M: Mmm.

P: And who doesn’t love driving along and you hear someone say something really stupid and it makes you giggle in the car on your own and then you have that you have a better morning.

M: You do and honestly, my cheeks a kind of sore because I can’t get this silly grin on my face right now.

P & M: Laugh!

M: But that’s it. And if you do that every morning for, I think, what did we say recently? 21 days to make a habit.

P: Yep.

M: 60 seconds is all that takes, and it can really change your mindset and just put you in a great mood for the day.

P: Yeah, it is a bit of a trial, and you’ve got to get, you’ve got to be consistent with it. Like anything, it’s like exercise. You’ve got to be consistent to get the benefits. So if you feel stupid and ridiculous or feel like throwing a small, fluffy animal out the window because you’re feeling so stupid and that’s fine, keep going, keep trying because it will kick in.

M: Yes, absolutely. And again, it doesn’t have to be authentic to start with. Neither of us were laughing authentically to start with.

P: Nah.

M: There were giggles in there, definitely from both of us. And then we went a bit silly. And then we came back, and then we had a real laugh, and then we didn’t. But your body doesn’t know the difference and that’s –

P: Exactly! Yes, you’re tricking your body into the reaction.

M: Yes! All right. So, I’ll quickly go through the last two exercises that I want to leave you with.

So the second one is about bonding with friends and family.

So, as I mentioned before, one of the great things about laughter is sharing it with others. Episode eight we talked about how laughter is contagious.

P: Yes, we did.

M: So, laughing with other people makes it more intense and helps bring people closer together. So, it’s a great team building exercise. So, if you want to grab some colleagues or friends or your partner or the whole family and convince them to join in this short exercise, you will be creating stronger bonds with the people around you.

P: Mmm.

M: To start with you get everyone into a circle and you take a deep breath in and out. Repeat that a few times just to get everyone in a different mood and mind set and then moving around the circle, you’re going to join up with a person and then there’s three simple steps.

You will either hold their hands or, if you’re in a more formal environment, shake their hand, so handshake
and you’re going to keep doing that while looking them in the eye
and laugh for 10 seconds.

P: Laugh!

M: That’s it. So once everyone has had 10 seconds of laughter with their partner, you find another partner and you repeat steps 1 to 3. You keep doing it until everyone has shared a laugh with everyone else in the group. The eye contact is a bit confronting for some people –

P: Yeah, very.

M: – but it’s really important for that bond.

P: Breaking through that uncomfortable silence and that sort of space of going ‘well, I need to be vulnerable here.’

M: Yes.

P: It’s an important part of it, because then you can let go, you can let go of it all.

M: Absolutely, so you’ll need someone to be the timekeeper, and you’ll need to keep everyone on track with instructions on when to move on. But once everyone’s done one round, you can get playful with it. So this is where it gets a bit more fun and exciting. So once it runs on a roll and they know what they’re doing, you can throw in a Santa round.

P: Laugh!

M: Everyone has to laugh like Santa. Or you could throw in a feeling or an emotion, so maybe cheeky laughing.

P: Okay, yep. Righto.

M: Or you could do an around the world round. German laughing, French laughing, Russian laughing.

P: Laugh!

M: Or simply throw in a good snort.

P: Yep, that always works.

M: Yes, so you can have a bit of a play with it and see where people go. And again, it’s kind of like an acting class. Some people really get into it, and that will carry the mood for a lot of people.

P: Laugh.

M: Others will be a bit more reluctant, but if they’re participating, they’re going to get the benefits anyway.

P: Yep.

M: And so the last one and I know we’re really short on time. So, I’ll fly through this last one.

This is about really letting go.

P: Ok.

M: There’s a little bit more movement in this one, so it’s a good exercise, either groups or individuals, so you could do this at work with your family or by yourself.

So you start by smiling and slowly move into a giggle then a chuckle and then finish with a really big belly laugh.
Even hold your belly and really get into that belly laugh so you’re slowly increasing the intensity and volume as you go.
And once you’ve had a really loud big belly laugh for good 10 seconds or so, bring it back down, stage by stage to a smile, and to get a good benefit from that one.
You should repeat it a few times, but you can also add movement.

So if you start crouched or small or seated, depending on your mobility as you get louder and get more volume and intensity to your laugh, you come up until your arms are up in the air.

P: Laugh.

M: Your head is tilted back, and you’re standing like a star fish.

P: Laugh.

M: You’re really opening up your body and being big in presence as well as laughter.

P: There’s also a thing about letting the vibration go into certain cavities of your body. So, if you can actually feel the laugh and this is where the visualisation comes into this. I’ve felt this before in classes where you feel visualisation, so you laugh from your toes and you let the laugh reflect your toes so little tiny laugh and you wiggle your toes and then you move it up into your calves and into your knees, and by the time you get to your chest or your belly, it’s big, it’s boisterous, it’s loud. It’s got some volume.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: It’s an acting thing that you do, a warm-up actually, but it is very [beneficial] that visualisation of small spaces and echoing and filling the space with the vibration of the sound is a really good way of doing that same exercise as well.

M: Well, absolutely. And you can take these really simple exercises and create a million different permutations.

P: Mmm.

M: And if these aren’t talking to you, then just Google it.

P: Yeah.

M: Love Google. There’s so much out there that you can learn. Now there is definitely the whole physical side with laughter yoga that this can go to, but it’s like yoga, there are so many different variations of it –

P: Yep, sure.

M: – that it can go in any type of direction. The point is to have a good laugh.

P: Nice. What a nice idea, who doesn’t want that?

M: Absolutely. And now that we’ve had a bit of a laugh, as well, hopefully everyone listening at home had a laugh with us.

P: Laugh.

M: Or at us, either way, laugh.

P: Doesn’t matter.

M: Either way, hopefully you are listening to this in the morning, and it’s going to make your day a little bit brighter.

P: Laugh. On that note, enjoy your day folks and have a good laugh.

M: Bye.

P: Chow.

P: And if you like our little show we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.

M: Until next time.

M & P: Choose happiness.

[Exit music fadeout]

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Happiness and Health (E63)

19/04/2021 by Marie

Happiness for Cynics Podcast

This week, Marie and Pete talk about how happiness leads to better health, but does being healthier make you happier?

Transcript

[Happy intro music -background]

M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.

P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.

M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.

P: Plus, sometimes I think we’re kind of funny.

[Intro music fadeout]

M: We’re on.

P: Hello.

M: Hello, welcome back.

…

P: Oh!

M: That’s you, you’re up, laugh!

P: I thought it was you!

M & P: Laughter!

P: Welcome back to this week’s episode of Happiness for Cynics.

M: Yes, we are talking about happiness literacy, this week.

P: Ooh, I like this word.

M: And it’s tied to other types of literacy.

P: Mmm.

M: And so we’re going to talk about other types of literacy that society today says we should have.

P: Yes, and having the understanding of how to use that literacy and how to use it for the best outcome –

M: Absolutely.

P: – later on in life and how it sets you up for later in life.

M: Absolutely. And so, we are going to focus in a little bit on health and happiness and health literacy and how that ties to happiness literacy.

P: Yep.

M: And we know we’ve discussed many, many times, all the research that shows that being healthier makes you happier.

P: Definitely.

M: But the question we’re looking to answer today is does being happier make you healthier?

P: I like the twist on this, laugh.

M: Yes, does it go the other way? And when we first, I think in episode one we talked about what makes people happy. We talked about negative affect.

P: Mmm.

M: So all the crap that goes wrong in your life. Positive affect, all the good stuff that happens and how they give you momentary bumps and troughs in your happiness level. And then there’s pretty much mindset, let’s be honest.

P: Yeah.

M: It’s what else you do that is within your control, that impacts your happiness.

P: Mmm.

M: And that’s things like practising gratitude, having good and strong social connections, having purpose and meaning in your life and having healthy mind and body habits.

P: Mmm

M: So, health is a major foundation for happiness benefits.

P: And for happiness itself, from some of the stuff that I’ve been reading. So we might mention those further down the track.

M: Yep, absolutely. So really, what we’re talking about here is how much does your health impact your happiness and your well-being, your satisfaction with life?

P: Well, hugely, I think. I think that if, because if illness and disease is around, it’s very difficult to be positive. Let’s face it, when you’re sick, you just want to crawl into bed and hug a pillow and have a warm cup of tea.

M: Yep.

P: It doesn’t allow you to be thinking proactively and to be positive in your outlook in terms of life goals and achievement. If you’re worrying, we know that if you’re worried about stress and putting food on the table, then the idea of spending two hours working on your happiness levels just doesn’t come into it.

M: I think also there’s a certain point where you go back to living a life of decreased health and you find ways to find happiness so temporary or even permanent disability.

P: Mmm.

M: You move on, you find a way and it might not be at a level that was the same as before, pre-accident or pre-illness etcetera. But we’re very resilient as far as animals go. Humans are very resilient people, and there’s almost a rebound after a major trauma or illness where you can often times end up happier than you were before.

P: So, it’s a conduit to a greater level of happiness.

M: Yes, so you might have decreased health. But you are so much more grateful for everything you do have and that translates into being happier.

P: Mmm, and possibly the lever as well, like it makes you more grateful because

M: Absolutely.

P: you’re walking the street again, in the sunshine, makes you go ‘Yeah! I couldn’t do this two years ago.’

M: Yeah, and it’s called post traumatic growth.

P: Oh.

M: So, there’s a whole field of study around this, definitely. So health and poor health can actually lead to better happiness levels but day to day, I think you’re absolutely right. And then there’s, then there’s that step further, people with chronic pain in particular.

P: Mmm, mmm.

M: It is really hard to be happy when you’re just trying day in, day out to fight, to not let the pain sink you.

P: Absolutely, that is a real negative cycle that keeps so many people in a downward spiral.

M: Yeah, and in depression.

P: Yeah, absolutely. It’s a huge issue, chronic pain and where we’re seeing more chronic pain coming through in health data at the moment, we’re getting better at diagnosing chronic pain. We’re also recognising it more a lot and bless my mum she’s like ‘We didn’t have any of this crap when I was around.’ And I’m like ‘No mum, we didn’t know what it was. We had no, no way of diagnosing it.’

M: Yep.

P: The terms weren’t there and we’re getting better at identifying issues now. That maybe aren’t, we don’t know exactly the causes, but we’re still willing to look at them. And even in the health education that is out there, people are being encouraged to look at social factors and mental factors rather than just looking at the biological model of health, which looks directly at “Are you sick?”

M: I think the other great thing that’s happened in the last 10 years or so, and a lot of people are still cynics, –

P: Laugh!

M: Gotta throw that word in.

P: Gotta put that out there, laugh.

M: Yep, it is the point of the show.

– is that we’re actually giving credibility to the Eastern way of thinking, which is tying mind and body together, it is one, it is one system.

P: Mmm.

M: You cannot separate one from the other. You can’t, we are one united system and so you have to look at mind and body together and treat mind and body together.

P: Mmm.

M: And for Western science, we’ve often separated the two.

P: Well, it’s even, it even goes further back than just Eastern philosophy. If you look at ancient cultures, so the definition of indigenous health is a connection to the land, so it even takes that one step further of it’s not about you it’s about your connection with the land and with the community. So, the ancient cultures or those older, older cultures of which the Eastern culture is part of the definitely have that relationship between mind-health, body-health and all things moving forward.

M: Yep, absolutely. So, we started this out by talking about being happy literate, but we wanted to look at health literacy.

P: Health literacy, yeah.

M: And you’ve been doing a lot of study on this recently.

P: I have! I feel like I’ve got I’ve got things behind me now!

M: Laugh.

P: I have references! I did a reference list for the first time! Laugh.

M: Laugh!

P: That was interesting.

M & P: Laughter!

P: And I do have to give a shout out to one of my lovely clients who got so excited when I said I was doing a reference list. She’s an academic and at the beginning of her apartment she went “Can I have a look.”

M: Laughter!

P: And then she spent 20 minutes fixing my references, laugh. So lovely Jill, thank you so much, you gave me a reference list education in our appointment, laugh.

But yes, health literacy really, really important. How to understand health and understanding the health system so that you can use it for your own benefit.

M: So that you can get the best health outcomes.

P: Definitely. And this all comes at the beginning stages of your life. If you can understand things when you’re 20 and be putting things in place. So, putting practises into place taking part in healthy behaviours this sets up good social conditioning which lasts you into your eighties and nineties and beyond.

M: And I think the reason why this is new and why your mom is like, ‘we didn’t have this stuff before!’

P: Laugh.

M: Because, sorry mum, people used to just die.

P: It’s true.

M: Yep.

P: Yep.

M: We didn’t treat this stuff. Cancer was a death sentence.

P: People were dying earlier, we weren’t able to treat chronic illness early.

M: Yep.

P: And it was, it had a huge effect.

M: Chronic or acute. We couldn’t [treat it] before, it was it was a death sentence. So that’s firstly and secondly, the sheer volume of data that is produced on a, I was going to say daily, but hourly basis in our world is astronomical, absolutely astronomical. There’s a great start that I love to point to. So the average person in their lifetime a hundred years ago used to read as much information as is in one issue of The New York Times.

P: Ok.

M: And if you think about it, so [just] one issue of The New York Times is what they would know over their lifetime.

P: Ok, wow.

M: We read one of those every day. Plus, we have Google and Facebook and work and so much information at our fingertips, and so we’re consuming so much more were not necessarily retaining it all, let’s be frank.

P: Laugh, no. Well, our short-term memory is editing a lot more now.

M: Well, it has to. There’s so much more, we’re being bombarded as humans with so much more information and the average doctor cannot, the average GP who’s your first line of defence against all of your medical issues, can’t be across the latest in every field.

P: No.

M: In every medical field. They can’t, they just physically can’t and this is why I’m really excited about AI doctors.

P: Laugh!

M: I think with your, with your physical person, you’re human touch Doctor, combined, they can do fabulous things. But health Literacy is a thing now because if you’re not health literate, you can have really poor health outcomes. But if you are health literate, you can survive well into your eighties, nineties, you know, up to 100, living an agile and healthy and happy life and contributing to society.

P: Mmm.

M: But if you get that wrong, you can not only die a lot earlier, but you could also just live a really poor quality of life from a health perspective which impacts your happiness for your last 20, 30 years.

P: They talk about this a lot with the disability care and the disability adjusted life years expectancy.

So you may be living until you’re 60. But 30 of those years I spent in care and in a nursing home because you haven’t got the ability to be able to look after yourself. And it’s a stat that they’re looking to change in terms of our managing of disability care and aged care as well.

M: Mmm hmm. Yeah, I couldn’t support it more and again, there are so many people who were so much worse off than I was. But after my motorbike accident, I was stuck at home in a wheelchair without a lot of the support because it was a temporary disability, not a permanent disability.

P: Mmm, yeah.

M: And I was isolated, completely isolated. My ability to participate in society was stripped from me completely.

P: Mmm.

M: And I…

P: And as you pointed out, we need that social interaction to maintain our happiness levels or to keep ourselves buoyant.

M: Absolutely. And you have a lot of elderly people who are just not stable on their feet or have health conditions that limits them to home.

P: It does.

M: It’s safe at home, right?

P: Especially if the models are that they’re going to move towards a home-based care, which has come out of the royal commission recently.

M: Yeah, absolutely. So, you can stay at home, but that’s a lot lonelier place to be.

P: It can be yeah. That has to be managed and supported through community networks and integrated health system, which they’re also talking about.

M: So, I think we’ve pretty much given the answer away we know that being happier makes you healthier, but being healthier does make you happier as well.

P: Definitely makes a difference.

M: So you have some studies.

P: I do, laugh.

M: Speaking of your reference list.

P: I do. Well it actually goes in terms of actually talking about location as well, that socioeconomic indicators, so those people who are more wealthy or less wealthy has an impact on our ability to be taking part in actions that contribute to our happiness and to our longevity.

So there’s a lot of work from Darwin and Drewnowski in New York who talk about the socioeconomic influences in regards to health education and access to the health system.

M: So, health education or access. I get access. If you’re poorer, you can’t get the greatest doctor because you might not have private health insurance.

P: Or you can get to a doctor because then they’re not in your area. You have to travel.

M: Yes, okay, so look, that’s, that’s to me, a no brainer, but coming back to literacy.

P: Mmm, hmm.

M: Why are poorer people not getting access to information, which is free a lot of the time, right?

P: It is, but one of the one of the factors that they pointed out here is that, for example if you take youth health literacy in our remote and rural communities, people aren’t getting to school in our rural and remote communities. The rates of year seven entry are low. In a study in 2009, year seven entry rates in rural and regional areas of Australia at 67%, 54% and 24% respectively.

M: Rural and regional?

P: Rural, regional and remote, [Year 7 entry rates for 2009]

Rural – 67%
Regional – 54%
Remote – 24%

M: Ok.

P: If we look at Indigenous populations in an urban setting. So, a disadvantaged group, but in an urban setting, [Year 7 enrolment rate is] 63.1%.

P: So the access to school is lower in those geographically challenged locations. And then if we look at some of the other people that are talking about, what that does to us in terms of access to health.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: The school acts as a link to the health system because you’re getting mentored into good behaviours. You’re getting access to information, which is coming through the school system that talks about nutrition, talks about getting enough sleep, talks about giving you the information to negotiate the health system and to understand what it means when you’re going for a Pap smear or your looking after you health into your fifties and sixties.

M: I didn’t get that. We rolled condoms on bananas.

P: Laugh! But you remember that.

M: And we were told don’t smoke and don’t do drugs.

P: Yeah, yeah.

M: But I think at that point it was so, you know, adults telling you not to do it, so everyone went out and had a smoke just to see what the fuss was about, you know.

P: True, true.

M: Yeah, look, I think maybe things have evolved a little bit. We started talking about nutrition in P.E. (Physical Education) a little bit, but I hope that things have evolved because obviously, as we’re showing here, the healthy you are, the happy you are. And if it’s going to be such a negative affect, so we go back to the negative affect on positive affect.

P: Yep.

M: These are things that a lot of the time are out of your control or you know they’re situational. If you could do anything to impact the negative affect in your life, such as knowing that you should choose a salad over a burger.

P: Mmm, yep.

M: Just knowing that, then it’s going to impact your life and you’ve only got one life.

P: There’s a study about that in Deakin University.

M: Oh, listen to you!

P: Laugh!

M: Tell me, tell me about your study Pete?

P: Felice Jacka of Deakin University in Australia did a study on the therapeutic impact of a healthy diet.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And what she found was that she took a group of people who were depressed and on psychotherapy and taking antidepressants.

Half were given nutritional counselling and then the other half were given one on one counselling. So a social connection and trying to establish which group came out better and what they found was the people who engaged in the healthy eating had a significantly happier response than the group that were having the additional companionship.

M: Mmm.

P: This comes bounding back to that social connection. We need social connections. But in this instance, what they’re saying is that the change in diet actually had a bigger impact.

M: Well, social connection with the therapist is a bit of a loose social connection.

P: Well, true…

M: I do hear what you’re saying about diet, though, and I think that’s fabulous and a great result. But if you could allow people to go socialise with their friends at the pub versus spend an hour talking about how –

P: Well, I guess we’re looking at depressed people.

M: [someone] bullied me, laugh.

P: Yeah, we’re talking about psychotherapy. We’re talking about people who are clinically depressed.

M: Yeah, a different type of social [interaction].

P: True.

M: I wouldn’t pick that one necessarily, but I think it is super interesting – don’t get me wrong – that food can have such an impact.

P: There is a second study at the University of Konstanz in Germany supports the same thing.

M: Yep.

P: It says, diet that was based on vegetables and fruit over time had a larger share of the overall happiness than the group that we’re on a high sugar diet.

M: And I think we’ve spoken out blue zones where the healthiest and longest living people live before and there’s a few things that you see across the board. So there’s Okinawa in Japan, Bar-bag…

P: Laugh.

M: Bar-bagia [Barbagia] in Sardinia, the Nicoya Peninsula in Costa Rica and Linda Loman in California. And these air all small communities where people are more likely to live to 100. So they’re small, and scientists looked at whether that meant it was just a gene thing or whether it was life choices.

P: Ok.

M: And definitely it’s come down to life choices. And there’s a few things that all these communities have in common.

They find purpose in their social connections.

So, that is definitely a strong theme through all of these small, tight knit communities.

They also live closer to nature, and they spend their time in nature.

So there’s a health benefit from surrounding themselves with nature and all the lifestyle choices that come with that.

P: Yeah.

M: So that ties closely to exercise like we’re talking about.

P: Yep.

M: Also, most people living in blue zones enjoy physical activity and incorporate that naturally into their daily lives.

P: Yes.

M: So, they do a lot more gardening and walking.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: They spend a lot more time running around after their grandchildren and volunteering.

P: Mmm.

M: They also have a slower pace of life, so a bit less stress as well, and finally back to what we’ve been talking about. Their diet is characterised by moderate caloric intake.

P: And mostly plant-based sources, I can see as well.

M: Yes. Yes so vegans rejoice.

P: Laugh!

M: So these are small communities where Maccas hasn’t moved in, right?

P: Yeah, there’s more information I’ve got on that. So, Adam Drewnowski, in a 2009 study, talks about the existence of food deserts in areas of America.

M: Yes!

P: And this is where fast food outlets actually outnumber grocery stores. And this comes back to social determinants of health and having access to that dietary area. So the location where you live, if you live in one of these food deserts, it’s much harder for you to get access to fresh fruit and veg to the point of like 200 kilometres.

M: Yep.

P: You have to travel that far to get to a grocery store.

M: Because they’ve only got a 7/11, and any time they put fresh fruit and veg in there –

P: it’s gone.

M: No, it goes off.

P: Oh!

M: They’re not selling it enough, so they don’t sell it.

P: Yep.

M: It’s a, it’s a cycle, right?

P: Mmm.

M: There’s a couple of other things that I think are fascinating when it comes to health and happiness and the other impacts. So, firstly, a lack of exercise has been shown to lead to psychological disorders as we’ve discussed, so:

Depression;
ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder);
ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder);

Which is interesting for a lot of kids nowadays who are developing ADHD and ADD.

P: Yes, true. Or being diagnosed with it.

M: Yeah. Also, increasing exercise reduces your chance of dementia by 50%.

P: Yeah, that’s huge.

M: Yeah, absolutely.

P: That’s a big figure.

M: And then Ronald Petersen, who is an American doctor, he said “regular physical exercise is probably the best means we have of preventing Alzheimer’s disease today, better than medications, better than intellectual activity and better than supplements and diet.”

P: Mmm, interesting.

M: Exercise.

P: Yep, so true. And if we sort of get that 15 minutes a day that is so recommended, it does, it makes such a difference to your well-being and to your perspective.

M: Yep.

P: Getting out. Out of the house, out of the room that you’re in. I rode my bike for the first time in weeks today and I was like ‘Oh, yeah, I remember why this is good for me.’ Get’s you breathing. It gets all the systems moving through. And that has huge effects on your endocrine activity and your hormonal balances that ruled your system.

M: Absolutely. All right, Well, we have definitely shown that being happier makes you healthier. And being healthier makes you happier.

P: Laugh! Flip the switch.

M: Absolutely, thanks for joining us this week and we’ll see you next time.

P: Choose happiness.

[Happy exit music – background]

P: And if you like our little show we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.

M: Until next time.

M & P: Choose happiness.

[Exit music fadeout]

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Happiness – Working One Day a Week? (E62)

12/04/2021 by Marie

Happiness for Cynics podcast

This week, Marie and Pete discuss and agree to disagree on whether working one day a week will bring you happiness.

Transcript

P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.

M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.

M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.

P: Plus, sometimes I think we’re kind of funny.

P: Okay, I’m putting in a caveat for this episode. We have two cats on the bed with us.

M: Laugh.

P: And they’re attacking my shoes.

M: It’s a team show.

P: Laugh, it’s Marie’s team.

M: Yep.

P: I’m on the outside for once.

M & P: Laugh.

M: I will say though, Happy Easter to everyone.

P: Yes. Oh, that happened didn’t it?

M: Yes. That did happen.

P: Yay! Yeah that’s right, we watched football with your husband.

M: We did.

P: Well, he watched football, we chatted.

M: Laugh.

P: Which is how we watch football.

M: Laugh, pretty much.

This week we are talking about a great study, which I am very supportive of,

P: Laugh.

M: which has found that flexible working is a winner.

P: Flexible working or minimal working?

M: Look, we all know minimal is great.

P: Laugh.

M: But essentially new research has come out, which shines a light on a new aspect of flexible working and says that the five day workweek is not conducive to optimal well-being.

P: I agree with this.

M: Our current model is broken.

P: Laugh.

M: So a bunch of research has been done by researchers at Cambridge University. And they looked specifically last year at people who’ve been furloughed in the UK,

P: Right.

M: people who’d lost their jobs. And they looked at people who were working full time, people who had no jobs and people who were working only one, two, three or four days a week.

P: Ok.

M: And guess who were the happiest people?

P: I know what you’re going to say.

M: You know, the answer.

P: Laugh.

M: It’s a really, really bad guess who. So why don’t you tell us, Pete?

P: The one day-ers has got the job.

M: They were the happiest. People who work one day a week are the happiest.

P: But you can hear all the cynics out there going ‘yeah, but who could afford to work one day a week?’

M: Well.

P: Ah, there’s a but!

M: Well… yes. I think for now, yes, we could be cynics about that.

P: Alright.

M: Definitely. So the researchers looked at the employment routines of about 5000 people during the past year, and it was an unusual year.

P: Yes, true.

M: Alright, it definitely was. And they found that people who work one day a week were happiest. People who worked… who didn’t work and didn’t have jobs were the most negatively impacted.

P: Mmm, yes.

M: But one day a week, followed by two days a week, had the benefits of employment in terms of mental health and engagement and purpose and meaning, but also had really high happiness levels compared to people who work three, four or five days a week.

P: Yeah, right.

M: And the worst was no days a week.

P: It’s like everything I guess it’s a balancing act, we don’t want minimal, but we do want some interaction and contact.

M: And purpose and meaning.

P: Yep, purpose and meaning is a big one. I’m thinking of a client of mine who’s, I think who is 83 and he still goes to work every morning and opens the shop.

M: I love it.

P: Yep, and that’s his job, he may just sit there and do nothing sometimes.

M: Laugh.

P: And after work he comes and gets a treatment from me. But he, lovely Sam, he constantly talks about having purpose and having that routine, and that, that’s what he has done all his life and that if he didn’t do that, he would find it very dull and boring. And his life wouldn’t have meaning which would not bring him happiness.

M: Or he’d have to find new meaning –

P: Yes.

M: – because I wouldn’t say necessarily that people need to never retire. But I will say that 40% of people who retire are depressed within a year.

P: I’ll agree with that yes, because they don’t replace it with anything.

M: Exactly.

P: They just go ‘oh, I’m going to have nothing.’

M: Yes, that’s the point. So you can’t do nothing.

P: No.

M: And for a lot of people, their job gives them that purpose and meaning.

P: Definitely, and that’s a really important reason to get up in the morning and get going.

M: Yep. There are some really smart companies and really smart countries out there, like Spain, Germany and New Zealand, who are already trialling for day work weeks.

P: Interesting.

M: And I think that we will start to see this pick up steam, particularly in light of Covid, when it’s been the biggest flexible work –

P: Experiment? Laugh.

M: – experiment, laugh, in the world. Whether it was because people were furloughed or were working 50% of their original hours because shops couldn’t afford to keep 100%.

P: Yes.

M: Or whether people were made redundant or were working from home. Or were doing all kinds of other different ways to make ends meet. We’ve had the biggest experiment ever, and I think that we’re only gonna see an acceleration of all these trials around what a work week should look like in the future.

P: It’s a recalibration of work to see what is most effective. And it’s good, it’s good to ask those questions, like anything, talking a lot about it in terms of happiness is asking the right questions, taking the time out to check in. So why not do that in our work hours as well?

M: Yep, and I think we’ve known for a while now that the 40 hour workweek is so broken and we say 40 hour work week in Europe, a lot of the time, it’s 35 in a lot of government jobs in Australia, it’s 35. It’s a seven a half hour work-day with a half hour lunch break, which is 9 to 5.

P: Right.

M: But in a lot of corporates it’s 8.30 to 5 or 8 to 5, with a one hour lunch break.

P: A lot of research is saying that we’re working more.

M: Yes.

P: That we’re working longer hours, that’s the research I’m looking at.

M: Yes, and we’re, we’re not even the worst. In America (USA) they are working even longer hours.

P: Yes, and it’s that perception of keeping the job. Don’t buck the trend when you’re asked to do extra time because you have a job so don’t want to lose it.

M: Or a lot of managers are just old school, and they want to see people at their desks and you get rewarded for working later and for being there longer.

P: And that’s –

M: That’s presenteeism.

P: Yeah, what is Observance? It’s being seen. Laugh.

M: Yep. Absolutely.

P: It’s not to do with productivity, it’s ‘are you there?’

M: Yes, and ‘are you committed?’ And those people, unfortunately, get rewarded. Whereas the people who skip out of the office, because they’ve done their work, at five and have other commitments are seen as less committed to the job and the company. P: You would say that’s a very, well I would say that’s a very narrow-minded view of work efficiency and work proficiency.

M: And look, the HR view of this is that that is a narrow-minded and old school view.

P: Yay, I got right!

M: But that doesn’t mean that people aren’t people and that Managers aren’t all lacking leadership training at times. Some, some are more trained than others and some are more self-aware than others. And a lot of people aren’t up to date on the latest and do still want to see their people at their desks.

P: Interesting.

M: Yes, definitely.

P: So, one day a week. What does one day do for you? Does it just give you lots of time off to go and frolic through the forest and jump in the ocean?

M: Well, that’s another really interesting thing about this study. They don’t mention what, what people are doing, the rest [of the time.]

P: Oh, is that with everything? They don’t say why these people are happier. Is it because they have more leisure time? Is it because they have more space to do other things that bring them purpose and meaning?

M: I have a feeling part of it is a reduction in stress.

P: Hhm.

M: I do think that five days a week, plus trying to raise a family or be a good husband or wife and friend and daughter and etcetera and fulfil all your other obligations. Nowadays, life’s busy –

P: Yep.

M: – for a lot of people, and one day a week gives you a lot more time to fulfil all your other obligations, whether they’re self-imposed or imposed by others.

P: Yes, yes, I agree.

M: So I’d say you get a reduction in stress. I would also say so, you know, so to bring it back to me.

P & M: Laughter!

M: I took a job last year and negotiated for a four day week.

P: Mmm.

M: And also, Covid hit around the same time. And so I got about 10 hours worth of commute and make up time back.

P: You’re still fulfilling your, inverted commas, 40 Our commitment.

M: Yes.

P: So you’re doing four days, but they’re big days?

M: Four long days. Yes, but I have the friday off to work on the podcast and the blog and the book writing.

P: Mmm.

M: And I launched a book last year, I’m also studying.

P: Yep.

M: So I’ve filled that time with other things that bring me joy and happiness.

P: Sure, yeah.

M: I spend time with friends on the weekends. I have a very full week, but that flexibility has allowed me to do other things that bring me joy in happiness.

P: Mmm. A friend of mine negotiated that in the UK about 15 years ago. He just decided he said ‘No, no, no, I need my day, my one day.’ He was very, very advanced, Mr. Marshall, if you’re listening and he moved back to Australia and he kept his job in the UK and has still kept his job in the UK. He’s in [the] medical research field.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And he has always maintained a four-day working week, for it would be about 15 years now. And he is inundated with work at the moment with the Covid [pandemic], the vaccines, he’s on the front line and reading nine research papers a day and publishing information on it, so very busy.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: But he’s still sort of, you know, tries to maintain that four-day working week.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And that fifth day is his day to go and do some reading, walk in the park, go on, have a coffee somewhere or go and see a therapist or get a massage or all those things that we would love to do if we had the time, inverted commas, laugh.

M: Yep. And the weekend just doesn’t give you enough time to do all those things and a lot of the time things that you want to do are closed on a weekend.

P: Yes, sometimes we’re trying to fit into schedules, are pre- determined for us and that makes scheduling difficult.

M: Absolutely.

P: And any groceries done. I mean, I don’t want to be there at six o’clock when everybody else is standing in line, it’s really annoying.

M: I love online shopping.

P & M: Laugh.

P: Oh, no.

M: Such a man, laugh.

P: I like to check it, see if there’s any little bits floating around inside. Smell it. Take a bite put it back on the shelf.

M: Laugh. Poor Covid.

P: I’m going to challenge you here, Marie, because I’ve actually done a little bit of research as well.

M: Ok.

P: And the whole one-day concept does come down to your perception of what that working week is. So, I’ve got a couple of studies here, one of them being from the Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Findings that they found were that Americans may be happier, working more hours in comparison to their European counterparts because they believe more than Europeans that hard work is associated with success.

So, their reward mechanism is telling them that if they spend the five days, 10 hours sitting at the desk and the boss is seeing them, they’re actually getting themselves a reward because their perception is that it’s healthy for them, so they’re therefore happier.

M: Oh, no more successful. No, the study showed –

P: But doesn’t that lead to happiness?

M: – No! Success does not equal Happiness. So, this is something we’ve discussed so many times success and happiness and not tied, not tied together. So the study that you’re referring to says that they believe that hard work is associated with success and I would argue in America (USA), and we’ve discussed this many times before and in particular even last week with the World Happiness Report that culturally in America (USA) there’s a real drive to success and it’s at the detriment of their happiness.

P: Ok.

M: And I would actually argue that this supports that, that they perhaps think it is better for them and it will make them happier. But I’d really question whether or not that drive for success is actually making them happier?

P: Well, according to the study I’ve got here, they’re saying Americans may be happier because. So, I would say that they’re assuming it drives happiness levels.

M: They may be happier working more, not that they are, because they believe more than Europeans do that hard work is associated with success.

P: Hmm, Okay.

M: Agree to disagree on this one? Laugh.

P: I think we’ll have to, yeah. Laugh!

So, a second study that was done actually in New Zealand by Peter Roborgh and Stacey Barrie, sorry, Barrie Stacey, got that around the wrong way, laugh. Anyway, they were looking at promotions, particularly for males.

M: Yep.

P: And how the hours per week spent working were affected by the job promotion and what that did for their satisfaction and what they found, was that the average well-being was significantly higher, even though the working hours increased and the annual holidays became shorter. So they’re saying, I’m assuming, that it is about perception and that tie in – you’re shaking your head.

M: That’s not how I’m reading it. Keep going though, laugh.

P: I was making the assumption there that it is about the perception of what you are achieving. So, if you are working longer hours, if there’s a purpose in mind, if there’s a goal in mind. Again, it comes down to that success that you were talking about. But that perception does drive a certain amount of contentment and happiness for you.

M: I think we’ve spoken before about comparing and looking around you and seeing whether or not you have more than others –

P: Oh, we’ve definitely spoken about that.

M: – can increase your happiness. So maybe that does factors into how people view their happiness and their lot in life, their situation in life. So, I read here income and socioeconomic status both dropped markedly following the promotion, career change.

P: Which you would think would create unhappy, you know, not contentment and stress.

M: Yes, yeah. Look, I’d have to read, I’d have to look at the report a bit more, I don’t think there’s enough there from what I can see. But, you know, there could be a number of factors into why a promotion could lead to someone being happier.

P: For me the takeaway from that is, it’s about the perception. So if you’re invested in your identity as a worker or whatever and that that driving for those goals or success rates or however you want to measure it can bring about a certain amount of happiness for you because you’re feeling good about your contribution.

M: Yep. Look, I think we’ve discussed studies in the past that show that you do definitely get a spike when you hit these moments. But whether or not it is sustained is the question.

P: Well, sustained comes into a different realm because you know you can’t keep working longer hours forever.

M: Yep.

P: You know that doesn’t work.

M: Yeah, definitely.

P: Especially with the factor here of holidays being decreased. I don’t know if I agree with that, but for some people, obviously it does work in terms of the study.

M: We’d have to look at why?

P: Yep.

M: Look, what I find interesting about the one day, a week and all of this is that we’re right in the middle of a huge amount of change in particular brought on by technology.

And there’s been quite a lot of discussion over the last decade or so, decade or two even, about how robotics and automation is going to lead to less jobs.

P: Hmm, Automation of the workforce.

M: Yeah, and look depends on who you talk to, but anywhere up to 40% of jobs will be lost in the future.

P: To automated?

M: Automation and robotics. Things that we used to be able to do as humans, that will be outsourced now.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: You know, many argue that that will be replaced by other technical jobs. So you need someone to look after the robots and fix the robots and etcetera, etcetera and the systems.

P: Or direct them.

M: Yep. But overall, everyone says we’re going to lose jobs. Which means if we continue with this idea of working a 40 hour week, five days a week, that there will be 40% of people, potentially, who will have no job. But if everyone only works two or three days a week, then there will be enough jobs for everyone to go around. You’re talking about job sharing as well? Role sharing?

M: Yep.

P: Those are solutions.

M: Yep, definitely. Or just you know, you work two days a week. Your role is two days a week of work and there might be four people who do a role like yours. Yep.

P: It’s an interesting one because they think that to me, laugh, poking the bear here. It’s the climate change argument of pulling things out of fossil fuels and going to renewable energies and all these people saying but what about the jobs? What about the workers that are gonna be out of work? Well, retrain.

M: Yep.

P: Put you into different areas where you have to adapt and you have to retrain and go with where the job opportunity is, which is in renewable energy and not in coal mining.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: I mean, that’s my basic argument with my mother when she brings it up, laugh.

M: I come from a family of coal miners, laugh, and I agree.

P: I understand what you’re saying when people are going –

M: You can’t fight progress.

P: – I’m at risk of losing my job. Okay, so re-train.

M: Yep.

P: Yep, re adapt. The medical field is the same as well. The huge advancements in robotics is that surgeries will no longer be done by human hands.

M: They’re already being done by robots.

P: They’re all being done by robotics.

M: Well, some.

P: Well, no. But that’s the prediction. And in the not-too distant future, all surgeries will be done by AI machines because they’re more precise.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And with what we’re doing now, with surgery and the nature of it being so specific, it needs that level off accomplishment. However, surgeons [and] doctors will still need to be consulted, will still need to be referenced because the robot can’t tell what’s going on with you, can’t give you the necessarily assessment.

M: Oh, Yeah they can! GP’s are going to lose their jobs to.

P: I don’t agree with that.

M: And have you ever been into a doctor’s surgery and they actually get on Google to look stuff up?

P: Laugh, no.

M: Because there’s more on the Internet and more research than any one human can possibly know, and there’s more advancements every day, than, than anyone could stay across. You have to be able to rely on computers nowadays to analyse things properly.

So anyway, this is all getting into the lovely geek elite tech discussions.

P: That is true.

M: But I think that working one or two days a week is really the utopia that we should be striving towards.

P: Laugh.

M: If there won’t be enough jobs out there because computers can do it better, I’m not going to be crying.

P: Laugh. Yes, well, there are other factors involved in terms of sustaining that, being able to live on that.

M: So there’s this great idea called UBI, Universal Basic Income and a country like ours is kind of in a good position. I’d say, definitely the Scandinavian countries and New Zealand, or probably more advanced or more likely, to implement this. But if everyone gets a basic income from the government and then works one or two days to keep the economy growing and churning along with support from computers, then we’re all happy. Happy days.

P: Mmm, laugh.

M: Utopia has arrived.

P: Laugh! I could see a very political speech taking off from there Marie.

M: Laugh. All right, well, that is our discussion of why you need to work one day a week.

P: Laugh.

M: I haven’t yet worked out how to make it actually financially viable, laugh.

P: There we go, yep. Sounds like a wonderful idea.

M: And I don’t know any bosses who would be in for it.

P: Laugh!

M: So, do what you will with information we’ve provided.

P & M: Laugh.

M: But if you can, definitely if you’re working 40 hours a week or more I would be looking at how that’s impacting your happiness.

P: Yep, very true. You know, that’s the crux of the argument.

M: The takeaway.

P: Yes. And so we’re going to leave you with just a few tips, and Google is your friendly place to be. So if you do want to ask for more flexible work arrangements. You can simply Google ‘ask for flexible work.’ And there’s so many videos and articles about how to have a conversation with your boss or how to negotiate when you get a job to negotiate those more flexible hours to work around your life.

P: And I think they’re much more open to the idea now.

M: Definitely. Now’s the time to ask.

P: Laugh.

M: All right, see you next week.

P: Bye, folks.

P: Nothing like a crisis to make light of the holes that are in your fabric as it were.

P: And if you like our little show we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.

M: Until next time.

M & P: Choose happiness.

[Exit music fadeout]

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Love Maps – Building Intimacy and Trust in Relationships (E61)

05/04/2021 by Marie

Happiness for Cynics podcast

This week, Pete and Marie talk about Love Maps, building intimacy and trust and staying emotionally connected to the people you love.

Transcript

[Happy intro music -background]

M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.

P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.

M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.

P: Plus, sometimes I think we’re kind of funny.

[Intro music fadeout]

M: And we’re back, Hi.

P: Hi, laugh.

M: So today we are talking about love maps.

P: Love maps. This sounds like something you do at a party.

M: Love maps. Sounds like some soppy thing that a psychologist gives you when you go to marriage counselling.

P: Laugh.

M: I really am such a cynic, aren’t I?

P & M: Laugh!

P: Essentially you are, laugh.

M: Yes, deep down I really am, laugh.

P: Laugh.

M: So the reason we are talking about love maps today is firstly because I recently just did one with my husband and we had a great time doing it.

P: We get to find out a lot about you and your husband on this show, don’t we?

M: We do, my poor husband. I don’t think he signed up for all of this.

P: Ha ha, tough.

M: Laugh, yep bad luck. And the reason why love maps is so important is that one of the basic foundations of happiness is strong relationships.

P: Yes, we’ve talked about this before. Intimate and strong, long lasting relationships build happier people, and they increase your quality of life into your senior years. Those people who have significant others into their seventies and eighties have a much higher quality of life and that doesn’t just relate to health, but it relates to interactions and feelings of security and happiness in general.

M: Absolutely so I think the biggest study is the Harvard –

P: Definitely the longest, laugh.

M: Yes, the longest definitely. So the study of adult development at Harvard, which was started in 1938 by Dr Arlie Bock. So it is still going, and it is the world’s longest running longitude… longitudinal study –

P: Such a hard word! I’ve been trying to write it lately and I keep tripping up going longit-ti-di-ti-di-nal.

M: Laugh! – of adult life and researchers have been studying two groups of men in the US since 1938 and tracking them through their lives, and there was one group of men from Harvard but another group of inner-city Boston men as well.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: And they tracked them by getting into answer questionnaires every two years and being personally interviewed every 15 years. And I believe, after a number of years, they started adding women to this study.

P: They did it about halfway through they started asking that their spouses to come in to be interviewed as well.

M: Yep, so they got a more rounded idea of these people’s lives. And so they followed these two groups from adolescence or, you know, late teens through to retirement and older. And the researchers identified over these people’s lives several factors that predicted healthy ageing. So, there’s stuff that we all know we should do.

P: Laugh!

M: And we don’t.

P & M: Laugh.

M: There’s limiting alcohol, getting enough exercise and maintaining a healthy weight. But they also found that a good marriage is also really important. Other factors in there, our education and mature coping skills.

P: Mmm, life skills.

M: Well, I think these are the mental health skills that we’re now starting to teach, like self-compassion and forgiveness and all of those other things that we didn’t used to focus on being kind, gratitude, all of those things that we never spoke about 20 years ago, I didn’t grow up hearing them. But having a good emotional maturity –

P: Yes.

M: – is going to do you well in life.

P: Yes.

M: And then the big one. So the big, big lesson to be learned from the Harvard study is that the most powerful influence on a rewarding life is the simplest, intimate relationships.

P: Ta da… Find me a husband, laugh.

M: Intimate, doesn’t mean husband and wife.

P: No, it doesn’t.

M: Or husband and husband or wife and wife.

P: We’ve talked about this before. Intimate relationships take many forms and identities, and that you can investors much into an intimate relationship with a friendship as you can with a partner.

M: Or a mother or sister or…

P: Yep, all those sort of things.

M: Or a besty Pete!

P: Laugh! Absolutely. And I’ve got some more contemporary based research that

M: Oh, well! Contemporary.

P: Well it’s from this century, laugh!

M: Look, this is still going, and they’ve actually started the second study of adult development.

P: Oh wow.

M: So.

P: It’s a sequel!

M: It is!

P: Longitudinal study version two.

M: Pretty much.

P: The beasts comeback, laugh.

M: But what more recent studies to you have, to share?

P: Well, these are more from psychological science and these are on the happiness levels in terms of relationships, and we’ve got one from Brown, Nesse, Vinokur, and Smith in 2003 that talks about how providing social support is more beneficial and how that can contribute to your happiness levels and ergo longer life.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And what this study found, this is one of the often cited studies because it targeted the fact that providing social support, so being the person in the community that helps to look after others has more benefit than actually receiving it. And we’ve talked about this in a previous podcast about receiving gratitude or receiving –

M: Kindness.

P: – Kindness, but giving kindness is the big key to increasing your happiness levels and having them maintained throughout the rest of your life and into senior years. And then there’s another reference from Diener and Seligman.

M: Oooh, they’re big wigs.

P: I noticed, you know these people, laugh.

M: Everyone knows Seligman.

P: Yep.

M: Father of Positive Psychology.

P: Laugh. And they were talking about the self-rated happiness scale and the people that they found at the top of this scale who were averaging around 30 out of 35 spent the least amount of time alone and were rated highest on good relationships. So, these are the people that if you like, the happiness gurus, the guys that are scoring high and maintaining happiness seem to also –

M: They’re social, they’re social.

P: Yeah, they’re out there, they’re doing things, but they also have good relationships good, intimate relationships which is a defining factor in the study.

M: Yeah OK, and they’re spending a lot of time with other people, too.

P: Yeah and they’re not sitting at home.

M: There was a recent study that came out during COVID that talked about how the amount of incidental interaction that we’re having with people has dropped off significantly.

P: Understandable.

M: And we shouldn’t discount that when it comes to loneliness. So it’s not only about seeing your friends and family less. It’s about not seeing the guy at the coffee shop as often.

P: Oh! I’m devastated that I’m not seeing my barista any more.

M: Laugh.

P: It was a 12 year relationship, the longest relationship I’ve ever had.

M: Laugh!

P: Alex, if you’re out there, I miss you. I love you, and my coffee is never the same.

M: And we really don’t think about that as being part of the social needs that we have.

P: Oh, I do.

M: It’s that smile with the person –

P: Totally.

M: A lot of people don’t get it.

P: I used to walk into that place and come out with a hug.

M: You’re special, sorry. Laugh.

P: See I just bought in. I was like ‘I like going in here.’ Laugh.

M: Or perhaps, you know, having a quick chat to the uber driver or saying hello to the bus driver when you get on and off and saying thank you.

P: Yep.

M: Those incidental interactions with people are not happening as often because we’re not venturing out as much, but also with masks it makes it even more difficult.

P: Yes, dealing with masks is difficult because you’re not judging how people are responding. And sometimes it isn’t what said, It’s a smile.

M: And if someone’s crinkling their eyes are they just old or are they smiling at you?

P: Yeah.

M: Like, it’s really hard and I don’t want to… yeah.

P: Oh yeah.

M: Yeah, there’s a whole cultural thing there as well that you can’t get into, laugh.

P: And there’s the whole thing about mask acting and how you have to express other ways without using your voice. It’s a, it’s a skill that not many people have.

M: Mmm. All right, so back, back –

P: Off track.

M: Yeah, off track.

P: [Rewind noise.]

M: So back to what we’re talking about, which is healthy relationships, laugh.

P: Ok.

M: And how they are critical for a happy life and a long life.

P: Yes.

M: So the question then becomes, how do you have happy relationships and good and positive relationships? And I’ll take back the word happy because good relationships often times are not happy. There’s stress and things go wrong, and we yell and behave badly, and we’re all human.

P: A good relationship survives those little moments.

M: Yes, and the big ones.

P: Mmm? Yeah ok, I won’t argue with that. And you can have those, and that’s not just a marriage situation –

M: Mmm hmm.

P: – with intimate friendships.

M: Yep.

P: You can have your little, the little moments where it all goes pear shaped, you don’t speak for a little while.

M: Yep, yep, absolutely. Or when someone puts the keys in the wrong mailbox.

P: Oh!

M: Laughter.

P: That was a communication issue.

M: As many issues are between married couples.

P: You were cranky, laugh.

M: Laugh, I was, I’ve apologised.

P: Laugh, it’s ok. I laughed.

M: So the way to having strong relationships, there are many ways and there are many things that factor into this, but really what we’re talking about here is about knowing and being known. So knowing the other person and being known for being authentic and vulnerable with them.

P: Oooh, that’s a big ask.

M: And sharing. And so how do you do this today? As we said before, we’re going to talk about love maps.

P: Do we need to get crayons?

M: …Sure.

P: Do we need colours?

M: Of course.

P: Ooh, yay.

M: The whole rainbow.

P: Laugh, you said the right word.

M & P: Laughter!

M: So love map is a way of getting to know your partner or friends or family. And it was created by psychologist Gottman, who did 40 years of research with thousands of couples, and he’s well known across the world for his work on marital stability and divorce prediction.

P: Ooh god, it’s someone good to have at a dinner party.

M: Absolutely.

P: “Could you tell me if I’m going to be with this person in ten years? Should I propose tonight or not?”

M: Laugh, “Or should I run?”

P: Laugh.

M: So in 2007, the psychotherapy networker described him as one of the 10 most influential therapists of the past quarter century.

P: Wow.

M: That’s pretty impressive and look, as we all know, divorce rates have been going up, so I’m sure we’ve been keeping him busy.

P: Laugh.

M: So according to Gottman, the couple’s most likely to enjoy marital closeness and satisfactions are the ones who build richly detailed love maps.

P: Oh, ok.

M: And what do you mean by that is when you go to a new city, you pull out a map and use it to explore the new city. A love map is a way of exploring your partner, getting to know them, and their inner world.

P: Ah.

M: And we do this quite naturally when we first meet. You know those butterfly moments when you meet someone that you like and you ask questions like, “What do you dream about?”

P: Oh my god!

M: “What are your goals?”

P: Oh my gosh! That’s when I turn into the cynic.

M: Laugh, and when you’re in that moment, it all seems completely natural and normal.

P: Laugh.

M: [Sweet voice] “What do you dream about doing?”

P: Oh my lord, laugh.

M: Uh huh. But then we stop. We stop asking those questions, and Gottman argues that in relationships you should be circling back on those types of questions and checking in with your partner or your friend or your sister –

P: I support that, yeah.

M: – more regularly.

P: It’s a refresh.

M: Yep.

P: It’s like goal setting, you’ve got to go back and do it every now and then because your values change.

M: Exactly. We all change over time.

P: Yeah, definitely.

M: Yep, so the Gottman Institute has created a card deck called 52 Questions Before marriage or moving in.

P: Laugh! I’m going to pull this out the next time I interview a flatmate “Excuse me, I just have a couple of questions for you… 52.”

M & P: Laugh.

M: And really, these questions help you map your partner and really explore areas that might not be top of mind when you’re 15 years into a marriage like me.

P & M: Laugh.

M: Or, you know, after your through that honeymoon phase. So this is really about re-exploring your friendship, your relationship, whatever relationship you pick.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: So some of the questions in the deck include:

In what ways do you operate well as a team? In what ways could you improve?

P: Oh, ok.

How is this relationship different than those that have not worked out?

P: Laugh.

M: Tell me Pete, how is our relationship different than those that have not worked out for you in the past.

P: Hmm. You make me go to things.

M: Laugh.

P: I don’t have to drive the boat. You say we’re going to Magic Mike, and I say Yes!

M & P: Laugh!

M: Shhh, it’s a secret.

P: I’m so going to be the individual man.

M & P: Laughter!

P: It’s going to be funny.

M: It will be funny.

M & P: Laughter!

M: Ooh, the big one!

What are your main strategies for coping with tough financial times?

P: Now that’s a vulnerable question. That’s a really vulnerable question. Yeah, you have to, you have to. You have to be very earnest, honest about your own actions when it comes to what do you rein in? What do you, what do you do in that situation? I think that’s a really, that’s a big one.

M: Is it enough to say you don’t have any… You just spend money when it’s there.

P: No.

M: Laugh.

P: No, I think that’s a really good one, because I think that shows how you restrict and how you pull back. It’s also a value decision.

M: It’s values.

P: What do you value the most? What do you actually keep going with? And what do you sacrifice for the interim?

M: Yeah, absolutely.

P: And that’s a really insightful answer.

M: And to be honest, I left home at a reasonably early age and put myself through university, and I had no financial strategies. It was try to make it through the week with enough money for food, laugh.

P: Or, let’s go a France on the scholarship fund and eat 2 minute noodles, laugh.

M: For the rest of the semester.

P: Laugh!

M: See! I didn’t have good money management skills.

M & P: Laughter!

M: Because I didn’t have any money.

P & M: Laughter!

M: So, when I did start having an income, and it was around that time that I met my husband, I still had no financial strategies. So, we’ve had some very interesting discussions over the years, laugh.

P: But I think that’s also a bonding thing, going through the tough times actually makes you stronger.

M: Yes, but I’d say that you can’t always expect to have the same outlook on things, and going in with your eyes open is probably better than discovering it when you already committed.

P: Okay. Yep.

M: I would argue that one. I think that’s why it says questions before marriage or moving in.

P & M: Laugh!

M: It’s good to align on these things beforehand, like, “Do you want kids or do you not want kids?” before you get married.

P: What?

M: That’s a big one too.

P: When are we having children?

M: Laugh, we’re not getting married honey.

P: Oh hang on, I’ve already given you the roses.

M: Laugh. So, ooh I like this one, and for anyone who’s ever had a roommate.

P: Laugh!

M: How will you decide who is responsible for which chores?

P: Laugh!

M: Otherwise, you get stuck cleaning the toilet for 15 years of your life, laugh. I think you’re in that position too, are you Pete.

P: Laugh.

M: So, I thought –

P: Does it come down to who does a better job? Laugh.

M: Yeah, well it doesn’t count if they do it but don’t do it right.

P: Ha, Charlie don’t listen to this.

M: Mmm hmm.

P & M: Laughter!

M: All right, the point is though to have these conversations and to talk about these things with your partner or your, you know, friend, lover, whoever it is you’re trying to get closer to, sister, brother, mother, father any type of close relationship.

P: Yeah, right.

M: So you might not even know the answers yourself to these questions until you’ve been asked them.

P: Very true.

M: And it’s about talking them out and getting to know yourself better. But also getting to know your partner better.

P: Mmm.

M: And the next lesson off this is that we should be making being curious and asking questions of each other habit.

P: Those conversations need to happen, but not all the time, but they need to circle back every now and then.

M: Yep.

P: Like a chicken. We have a mutual friend couple that do have these conversations once a month. They sit down and they go on a date. They sit down and they go “Right, this, this, this, this pissed me off this week.”

M & P: Laugh.

P: I actually think It’s a very honest and open understanding, and they do it every month, and I think it’s a, I think it’s a real strength of theirs. It’s all cards on the table. I’m not going to edit myself here. I’m going to put it on the table. So then you can either talk about it or say Well I don’t agree with you on that, but there’s a there’s a calmness rather than you blowing up in the middle of the dinner party going [hysterical voice] “Oh my God, you did this!” then lobster on the ceiling, the whole thing.

M: Waste of lobster.

P & M: Laugh.

P: Yeah, it is. But honest and quite frank conversations. And I think having them more regularly means that when they do happen, you’re not scared by them.

M: So without naming names, I know you’re talking about. And I would say that although that relationship started off well, a little birdie told me that they’d forgotten to do them over the last couple of months.

P: Oh.

M: So this is maybe a little bit of a kick up the butt for that couple in particular.

P: Laugh.

M: But [also] for all of us, because they put this in place is a really pure and good thing to do when they first got together, so that they could get to know each other better and talk through these things.

P: Hmm, yeah.

M: And as we’ve discussed here, that’s really easy in the honeymoon phase.

P: Yeah, true.

M: It becomes almost hard work after a year or so.

P: Yeah, righto.

M: So, I did a love map with my husband last weekend, and it took us the whole weekend to get through all the questions.

P: Wow!

M: It was a long weekend, three days and we did it over dinner and meals, and we sat down at one point outside in the sun and went through a few questions. But they really are great open-ended questions that can take you down so many unexpected paths and conversations and that really help you understand yourself a little bit better. So they’re things that we don’t always ask ourselves.

P: Hmm.

M: And that can help with your own personal growth as well as getting to know each other.

P: Hmm.

M: And if you competitive, like me, we nailed it way!

P: Laugh!

M: I have to say, laugh!

P: Of course, you did.

M: Laugh.

P: Of course, you did. Laugh.

M: So we asked these questions of each other and worked out who knew more.

P: Laugh.

M: At first it was a competition between us, because everything’s a competition.

P: Laugh.

M: And then it was, how well have we been connecting? It was almost a litmus test of whether or not we started growing apart. And I think we did pretty well, so I came out of it feeling pretty good.

P: Nice.

M: I was pretty chuffed.

P: That’s good. That’s a positive. Good for you, well done.

M: So, before we leave, I’m going to test our friendship Pete.

P: Oh gosh, I didn’t sign up for this! Laugh.

M: Laugh.

P: Pressure.

M: All right. So, the question is, what was your favourite vacation?

P: Well, that’s easy.

M: So the question is, what was my favourite vacation Pete? And I’ll answer yours, what was your favourite vacation.

P: Oh, is that how it works.

M: Yep.

P: Oh, okay, I am going to say, driving around Paris, driving around France.

M: Yeah.

P: [Triumphant] Laugh!

M: I think that was pretty spot on.

P: It was pretty special, yeah.

M: Ooh, I think probably that trip would have been up there for you as well.

P: Yep, I’m nodding.

M: Yep.

P: Nodding in agreement there.

M: We were both on the same trip.

P: Yeah.

M: Yeah, but look, Paris was pretty special, but I’d say that Sweden was also pretty cool as well.

P: Yep, yep, yeah.

M: Well all right, I think we nailed it!

P: Laugh!

M: Besties for life!

P: Laugh, woo!

M: Yay!

P: There we go, we’re done. Who needs 52, we just did one.

M: Laugh.

P: Maybe we can do one a year?

M: That works.

P: See if we can make it to 52 years of friendship, laugh.

M: I like it. I like the intent there. Anyway, I really recommend you can Google the Gottman love map at Gottman and pull this up and I really recommend just pulling it up, taking a screenshot so that you’ve got it on your phone. And next time you see your family or your friends or your loved one, just start going down the list.

P: Yep, I reckon it’s a great cocktail hour game.

M: Absolutely.

P: Yeah. It’s a good one for you too, you can ask a few questions and see how crazy they all are, laugh.

M: All right. Well, on that note we’ll leave it there. We’ll see you next week.

P: Enjoy your love maps.

M: Yep.

P: Bye.

M: Bye.

[Happy exit music – background]

P: And if you like our little show we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.

M: Until next time.

M & P: Choose happiness.

[Exit music fadeout]

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Has COVID-19 Taught us How to Be Happy? (E60)

29/03/2021 by Marie

Happiness for Cynics podcast

This week Marie and Pete discuss how COVID has impacted our happiness levels, and has taught us how to be happy in spite of adversity.

Transcript

[Happy intro music -background]

M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.

P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.

M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.

P: Plus, sometimes I think we’re kind of funny.

[Intro music fadeout]

M: Okay, so today we are looking at what COVID has taught us about how to be happy.

P: Who would think that COVID would be linked to our happiness levels.

M: Well, you know, teaching us things about happiness. I think that this is the big wake up call that we’ve been needing around the world.

P: To make us focus on a mental health, just a global pandemic.

M: Well, this is the best… You couldn’t do this in a scientific study; Make some people get a disease and others not just to see what happens to their mental health.

P: Laugh! Yes. The ethical reasoning is mind boggling.

M: Laugh, exactly. It is the biggest and best way to look at resilience and mental health. Obviously, you would never wish this on anyone.

P: Of course not, no.

M: But what we can learn from it is extensive.

P: Well, this is very true. And this is what happened after the 1917 [1918-19] Spanish flu experiences. The society learned a lot.

M: Yep.

P: They learned a lot of lessons on how to cope with bacterial infections and control mechanisms and –

M: Washing your hands.

P: Yeah, all those basic reminders, I guess.

M: Yeah.

P: So yeah, yeah. I guess it’s time to learn the lessons.

M: Absolutely. And we’ve been going through it and feeling it, and I really hope that this is the kick up the butt that the world needs to really start to focus on well being.

P: Laugh. Well, if we’re looking at this report, it would seem that way.

M: Yes.

P: We are looking at the World Happiness Report – Laughter!

M: Laugh.

P: A cat just flew across my computer.

M & P: Laughter.

M: I was going to lock them out of the room.

P: Laugh.

M: I didn’t… I’m learning my lesson.

P & M: Laughter.

P: Okay, so today we’re actually looking at the second World Happiness Report.

M: Oh, no!

P: No, there’s more.

M: Many, many of them.

P: This is our second, laugh.

M: Yes. So, when we first kicked off last year, we did an episode on the Global Happiness Report findings and the 2021 Global Happiness Report Findings have just been released in time for World Happiness Day. So last week for us.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: And we’re able now to look at all of that data from the previous decade and compare it to this year’s data (from 2020) and really look at how COVID has impacted our happiness levels around the world. So it’s a great tool for us to look at what’s changed.

P: Yes.

M: And so there’s a lot that hasn’t changed. Let’s just start there.

P: Yes.

M: So Finland again forth year in a row.

P: Oh the Finnish, they’re all running around, clapping their little, what do they wear there? Wearing clogs?

M: Yeah, I don’t know.

P: They’ve got little bootie things.

M: Ok. I just see them as being very cold.

P: Laugh.

M: So, this report is compiled by the U.N. Sustainable Development solution, and it’s an annual report, and it ranks about 150,149 countries based on:

Gross domestic product per person. So how much money do you have and all the well-being indicators that go with having some money.
Healthy life expectancy. So how long you going to live
And the opinions of residents.

So it asks respondents to indicate on scale of 1 to 10 how much social support they feel they have if something goes wrong, their freedom to make their own life choices. That’s about autonomy, their sense of how corrupt their society is and how generous they are.

P: Oooh.

M: We’ve spoken a lot about generosity and gratitude and things like that as well.

P: Yes.

M: So the top 10 countries in 2021.

P: De de de de! We have on top,

1. Finland! Yay!

M: Wooh!

P: Do we have the Finnish National Anthem? Can we play it now?

[Finnish National Anthem – 10 second exert]

P: Laugh, followed very closely by,

2. Denmark; and

3. Switzerland.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: It’s the Scandinavians, they always seem to be on top. And then

4. Iceland.

P: Oddly enough, all the core countries.

5. The Netherlands.

6. Norway; and

7. Sweden.

P: Again, we’re staying up around Scandinavians.

8. Luxembourg.

9. New Zealand!

M: Whoop, whoop!

P: Go the Kiwis! And

10. Austria.

P: Random, Austria?

M: Well again, not very far from all the other countries up there.

P: I guess so, yeah.

M: And so, as we said before, it’s the fourth year that Finland has come out on top.

P: Mmm, yeah. They must be doing something right.

M: Some other noteworthy countries. The US, which was at number 13, five years ago, has slipped from 18^th to19^th place, so they’ve been slowly declining over the last half decade, and we really have seen a huge decline in the South American countries.

P: Yeah.

M: So, Argentina, Brazil, Colombia and Mexico all became significantly less happy in 2020.

P: We’ll talk about the reasons why about that later.

M: Yep.

P: But interesting, the Latino countries are not doing so well.

M: No, not at all. And a lot of Asian countries are, just sort of in the mix in the middle. But definitely they’re not leading the pack. It is Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, The Netherlands, Norway and Sweden.

P: Hmm.

M: They’re all doing an amazing job and New Zealand.

P: Yeah, although I do find it interesting. I was flicking through the report. They did say that the Asia Pacific region is one of the top regions in terms of dealing with the COVID response.

M: Yes, and that is a factor that we’ll come to in a little bit. Is how countries have dealt with COVID.

P: Yes.

M: So it is worth saying, though, that you would think that happiness levels may have dropped in 2020.

P: I would… yes. Overall, I would say yes. I think some people have actually fared well, but you’d have to put it on an aggregate and I would say on average yes.

M: So not substantially in anyway. So, the numbers are still pretty consistent with the year before. So that is that I thought that was a bit surprising.

P: Mmm.

M: There was, however, periodic dips.

P: Yep.

M: So when everyone first went into lock down, women in particular didn’t fare particularly well, but overall, lots of people didn’t fare well for that moment.

P: Mmm.

M: But if you look at the full year and obviously these questions are looking much more broadly at life satisfaction rather than that moment in time, how are we faring today? Overall, people were faring about the same as in 2019 for happiness levels, which I thought was a bit surprising.

P: Yeah. Look, sometimes having issues and having a challenging time of it actually makes you relatively more understanding and grateful for what you do have.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: So that in and of itself, we talked about gratefulness a lot. Making you feel grateful is going to make you feel a bit more contented and happy because you get away from the materialistic products and the big, flashy cars and the overseas trips and it comes down to ‘ah, I have people around me that I’m enjoying and I have food in my belly and they can enjoy my home, home, lifestyle and things like that.

M: Mmm hmm. Definitely.

P: So your daily happiness might actually go up because you’re more appreciative.

M: Well, there’s this and we’ve spoken about this before. Definitely if you have experienced trauma.

P: Mmm.

M: A lot of people bounce back and are even happier than pre-trauma.

P: Yes, the relative effect.

M: Yep. So that’s not what we’re going to talk about today.

P & M: Laugh!

P: Tangent!

M: But there are six lessons that we can take from the results, and why don’t you kick us off?

P: Oooh. Older people are happier!

M: Nice.

P: Go the silver hair-set!

M & P: Laugh.

P: Those wearing glasses and bald. Well done, ladies and gentlemen. The age profile of happiness before the pandemic struck, they were saying, was roughly a U shaped curve.

M: Yep.

P: People began their adult lives in a cheerful way and they became less happy in middle age.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And then they got happy again at 50, and then if they got into the senior years, into the seventies and nineties bracket, they fell back into the doldrums. But now they’re saying, particularly the UK, which is an interesting one, that the pattern is on upward slope and that older people are actually a little bit happier.

M: And the young are less satisfied right now as well, aren’t they?

P: Yeah.

M: So it’s more like a line rather than a U shape.

P: Which is… is that a generational thing?

M: Well, the U shape has been around and being discussed for a while now.

P: Mmm.

M: And what we’re saying is during the pandemic, rather than a U shape and starting happy our younger generations have dropped, but our older generations have gotten happier, which is a bit counterintuitive because the older generations the most risk of dying from COVID.

P: I guess so, but there’s a relative understanding there as-well, and maybe there’s a relative resilience in there with the older generation and let’s face it, if they’re if they’re around the nineties then they went through the Depression and the post war era and stuff like that. So maybe those lessons that they learned in those days have come back to serve them well in a global pandemic such as COVID.

M: Or maybe they’re happy that they’re not the ones that have passed.

P: Very true.

M: Maybe they’re grateful for their lives.

P: Yeah maybe.

M: So the next one or next lesson to be learned is that countries in which governments are seen to have not done as well with COVID have slipped.

P: This doesn’t surprise me, laugh.

M: Yes, and the UK and the US are the two biggest examples of this.

P: Oh, huge!

M: So, one of the co-authors of the report, Columbia University economist Jeffrey Sachs said, quote “We find year after year that life satisfaction is reported to be happiest in the social democracies of northern Europe. People feel secure in those countries, so trust is high. The government is seen to be credible and honest, and trust in each other is high.”

P: Mmm.

M: Also, people’s perception of how their country was handling the pandemic contributed to an overall rise in well-being.

P: Hmm.

M: So several Asian countries fared better than they had in last year’s rankings; China moved to 84th place to… from 94^th [to 84^th]. So they moved up 10 spots because of their handling of the pandemic.

P: Yeah, wow.

M: We assume. And countries like Finland, Iceland, New Zealand, who I have to say I kind of had an advantage if you’re an island, laugh.

P: If you’re a small island, you [just] close the borders. I mean, even Australia, we fared well because of that fact, we could close off the borders and say ‘sorry you’re not coming across.’

M: Absolutely.

P: We are our own little place down here and put the fences up.

M: Yes, absolutely. So, countries which have managed COVID and managed keep COVID levels low, have happier residents.

P: Yeah, I’d easily believe that when you’ve got faith in the higher power, especially when you’re relying on them in an international crisis. You’re relying on leadership. And even if you don’t necessarily agree with the leadership before that situation happens, if there is a response, if there is communication and clear communication and daily steps being made, then yes, you would have more faith in the powers that be and that’s got to make you feel more secure and you know the hierarchy of needs, we need security it’s number 3?

M: Yep… Oh don’t ask me.

P: Talk to Maslow, I know who he is now.

M & P: Laugh.

P: That little pyramid, laugh.

M: So, look I think that’s a bit of a no-brainer the countries that are having lower death rates and lower infection rates are happier.

P: Mmm. Maybe that’s a thing about the Latino countries. I mean you look at the Brazil example of the government there just how, how tense it is with the entire population and possibly also with Colombia and Mexico.

M: Yeah, so we mentioned before Argentina, Brazil, Colombia and Mexico have all dropped.

P: Mmm.

M: Definitely.

P: Staying with the country theme let’s move on to number three. Countries with a strong capitalist culture are not faring well. Down with capitalism.

M: Mmm.

P: Is this the anarchists making a play?

M & P: Laugh!

P: I’m expecting costumes to come out with the, you know, V for Vendetta.

M: Laugh.

P: That’s going to start, wearing red.

Your favourite author, Sonja Lyubomirsky, professor of psychology at the University of California at Riverside, has noted that, for example, in the American culture, one of the capitalist leaders of the world, prizes of and big signs of wealth, big houses, big cars, multiple cars, they rely on this more in America than in other countries and that leads her to assume, I’m going to say assume or to cite that ‘material things don’t make us happy.’

M: It’s a fair assumption, but it’s back by research. Absolutely.

P: Oh, well we believe it then, laugh.

M: We do.

P: Laugh!

M: We’ve spoken about this before, material things don’t make us happy.

P: Yep.

M: So, if you look at the top 10, they’re all strong social democracies. Whereas capitalist culture, like in the US, where having big cars and blingy jewellery and flashy jobs and all the rest of it is far more prized, they’re not as happy.

P: It’s a temporary happiness that they get from those items. That long term happiness is lacking.

M: Yep.

M: Absolutely.

P: Ooh, I’m feeling allegorical.

M & P: Laugh.

M: Definitely. One of the other lessons we can learn from the report is that inequality continues to impact happiness.

P: I must say, I’m a bit surprised by this one.

M: Well, we’re spoken about how humans compare themselves to others, right?

P: Yep.

M: And how this can impact your happiness and so if you look at your neighbour and they seem to have everything.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: It’s really hard to be happy when you feel like you have nothing.

P: This is the social dilemma, the Facebook, Twitter, Instagram thing, yeah.

M: Absolutely, that makes it worse.

P: The wall of comparisons.

M: And you’re seeing other people through their social media, and it’s a fake life that you’re seeing.

P: The best moments.

M: Yeah, exactly. Not the real moments. Well, young people and women have been disproportionately impacted by COVID. So many have lost their jobs. In America, for instance, the unemployment rate for people between 20 to 24 shot up from 6.3% in February to 25.6% –

P: Wow!

M: – 2 months later.

P: Wow! That’s huge.

M: Now, last month had dropped back to about 10% but that’s a huge drop and for 1/4 of a demographic to be out of work that’s a huge impact.

P: Yep, and that’s gonna have a long term reaching effects into the…

M: Superannuation.

P: Yeah, everything as they get older, definitely.

M: Definitely. And then in a lot of richer countries or more well off countries. Women have also had a particularly hard time, so they often wake in sectors like hospitality, which have been shut down.

P: Mmm.

M: Also, when schools closed, many were stuck with more than their fair share of childcare responsibilities.

P: Yep, mmm hmm.

M: And so the inequality that we’ve seen because of COVID, particularly for women and young people but also across the board, has been really tough for a lot of people to bear. And looking at other generations or sexes or other demographics and seeing that you’ve been impacted when others haven’t is really tough and really hits your happiness levels.

P: Mmm.

M: So it’ll be really interesting to look, I find this this aspect fascinating, looking into how inequality is impacting certain demographics and looking at the systemic ways that our governments can help to address some of this inequality because this is an only a COVID issue.

P: No, this is gonna be my point is that this happens a lot when we have financial issues across national scales. Same thing happened in the GFC, a lot of women left work, left the workplace and went back to Home Care/Childcare and things like that and their often much more transient in nature in regards to employment.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And we know we know this, and it’s interesting that this trend has still stayed.

M: Yep, and the question is, how is that impacting their long-term happiness, their life, happiness? And I think COVID’s finally shining a light on that because, as we’ve said before, happiness, impacts your well-being, your mental-health, physical health, your longevity.

P: Mmm.

M: It has so many wide sweeping impacts, and we’re actually seeing through this report the impact of losing your job or being unequally impacted by a global pandemic or a global financial crisis, or whatever issue of the day we’re dealing with is going to impact people unfairly.

P: Mmm. There is a counterpoint to that argument, which I’m going to throw at you Marie, and I’m getting my shields up ready to deflect, laugh.

M: I’m ready, I’m ready to fight!

P: Laugh!

M: I’ve got my gloves on.

P: I may get hit here people, laugh. The counterpoint of that argument is that women are much more willing to surrender their career choices -hear me out- and go back to child care and home care and things like that, possibly because it is a social expectation that’s placed upon them. But I would like to see the data on how many women make that choice because they do want to be happier. They make the choice to return to not being in a career and prefer to support the other person. I’m wondering if that is part of the equation.

M: I think there are some women who choose, and that’s their right, there are far more who don’t choose it, but because they’ve got to push the baby out –

P: Yep.

M: – and recover from that.

P: This is what I mean.

M: They have no choice and therefore they have to take time off work, and that impacts their ability to save superannuation.

P: Mmm.

M: It also is the only way that the family can survive because a lot of men don’t have paternity leave, and so they’re the only ones that can get an income.

P: It’s a policy issue.

M: Yeah, it’s a systemic issue, and I’d say yes, there are some women who would like to stay home and look after their kids. However, there are many who don’t and they’re stuck with no choice. And that’s the problem.

P: Ok.

M: And not only that when they do finally have the opportunity to go back to work, they are starting from scratch, they’re struggling to find work.

P: They’re at a disadvantage.

M: They often can only find part time work or they have to look for part time work because they still have to look after the kids.

P: Yep.

M: And the man in the relationship has continued to build a career, and they’re so far behind that it doesn’t make sense for the family, for them to be the full time breadwinner and the man to be the part time carer.

P: Mmm.

M: So the system just keeps perpetuating that loss off income and career progression for a good 10 years, or however long it takes until you feel comfortable that kids can walk home from school by themselves.

P: Mmm, yeah. I still I still think that there is a demographic in there that make the call, they don’t want the career choice they actually prefer ‘No, I don’t want the stress of that’ because they still have to take care of Children.

M: And I’d say there’s just as many of them as there are men and the men have no choice to do that. For us women that is the only choice a lot of the time.

P: Mmm, ok.

M: Because the system’s stacked against us and there’s a lot of women who, as we’ve mentioned before, would like to have purpose and meaning in their life that isn’t tied to someone else’s happiness.

P: Of course.

M: Any way I could be on my high horse for a very long time, laugh.

P: I just wanted to get it out there, because I was genuinely shocked when I saw the inequality towards women was a COVID response.

M: Yep.

P: In response to COVID. But I was surprised by that, because I would say that generally speaking, I find women more resilient in terms of emotional responses to issues.

M: Well, I think this next one, we’re going to have to speed this up and wrap it up.

P: Oops, sorry.

M: This next one will actually give the counter argument to that.

P: Ok.

M: So why don’t you drop in this next one?

P: Alright, so the next one is that people who are more social had greater drops in happiness. So, people who were going out and [they’re] the life of the party, the social butterflies, the ones who are coordinating all the friends and have lots of friends, fared far worse in COVID than those who were perhaps a little bit more stringent with their socialising.

We have a study from Britain by Ben Etheridge and that Lisa Spantig, both from the University of Essex, that found that again, women without least four close friends slumped more than anyone during the spring in 2020 lock down and that people who are used to seeing a lot of friends, here we go again with the young people, they suffered really badly –

M: Young people and women.

P: – in this experience.

M: So back to your point about women, the drop in social contacts could have also been exacerbating things. Definitely.

P: Mmm, yes.

M: And that would have been impacted again, unequally compared to men who had less friends, in general. Now we’re definitely stereotyping and generalising here.

P: Yeah.

M: But definitely young people and women again would have been exacerbated by lockdowns.

P: And that comes back again to that other point about the youth having to really struggle through this and they really are at a disadvantage. As you said, those figures in the job market in the US that puts them back behind the eight ball for another 10 years.

M: Yep.

P: Add on to that the social impacts of having their friendship circle [cut], because that’s when you make friends in your twenties and you’re meeting people who are outside of your normal sphere. You know, you’ve moved out of home, you’ve gone to university, you’ve gone to new places. Yeah, not meeting people at that point that could have a real social impact 10, 20 years down the track.

M: Yes. Absolutely. All right, well, we’ll have to end there. But it was –

P: An interesting one.

M: – definitely an interesting one, yep. Laugh. And sorry for the rant on the women’s rights.

P: No, no. I want to get your response, I just wanted to throw that one at you.

M: Oh! Yep.

P: Laugh, I could see – Laugh!

M: I’m still biting my tongue, Pete. Laugh!

P: Yeah, I’m just ready for a back hander, laugh.

M: We’ll do that off air, laugh. All right. Thanks for joining us today and we’ll see you next week.

P: Bye

[Happy exit music – background]

P: And if you like our little show we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.

M: Until next time.

M & P: Choose happiness.

[Exit music fadeout]

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The Smell of Happiness (E59)

22/03/2021 by Marie

Happiness for Cynics podcast

This week, Marie and Pete talk about the smell of happiness and how researchers are bottling it to help treat nervous disorders.

Show notes

During the podcast Pete mentions research done in Austria to teach a dog to smell COVID. Please click on the following article to read further. Austrian military dog sniffs out COVID-19

Transcript

P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.

M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.

M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.

P: Plus, sometimes I think we’re kind of funny.

P: Can I just say I miss our foreplay?

M: Laughter.

P: With this pre-recording of the intro, I’m not sure I like it. Laugh.

M: Yep.

P: I kinda get sprung, it’s like coming out of the bath with a towel around you going Aahh!

M: Laugh! We go straight into it.

P: Laugh.

M: Yeah, having said that doing the same intro with slight tweaks every single time was really getting on my nerves.

P: See, I found it really fun.

M: I’m happy with a quickie. I don’t need foreplay.

P: Yeah, you’ve been married for how many years, laugh.

M: Laugh.

P: Laughter! Welcome to this week’s episode, laugh.

M: And Happy International Day of Happiness Pete.

P: Oh my goodness! Has it been a year?

M: It has, since we launched.

P: Weee! De, de, de, de [Award ceremony theme] Can I take my pants off?

M: …Ah. Sure.

P & M: Laughter.

P: It’s what I do when I’m happy, you know that, laugh.

M: It is, it is. Normally you’ve had a few drinks though.

P: See I’m doing it even without alcohol isn’t that even better?

M: Whatever floats your boat.

P & M: Laughter!

M: So since we are talking, ah this is our episode one year in.

P: Wow.

M: I wanted to start with just a quick chat about how you’re tracking with your Happiness Pete?

P: Oooh. Not a good week to ask.

M: That’s really good, because life happens.

P: Life does happen. Yeah, life gets busy. Life gets hectic. I’m in the throes of closing down a business and starting up another one and starting university and trying to balance that with all sorts of other things. Yes, I’ve got for four plates in the air at the moment, like the little Chinese plates on the spinning sticks.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: One’s wobbling, laugh.

M: Yep and is that your happiness? Are you prioritising your happiness right now?

P: Ah, good question. I have, it’s interesting with the work that we have done.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: I am very proud of the fact that I am still setting aside time for myself to exercise.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: I am setting aside time for myself to cook.

M: Good, yep.

P: I got to cook this week, which is really nice because [Cookie Monster voice] “I love cooking!”

M: Yes, we do know that, laugh.

P: I adore cooking. So, those kind of activities instead of going ‘No, I haven’t got time. I’m going to let that plate drop’, today I went ‘No, I’m going to take half hour and I’m going to make myself a nice chicken lunch, and I’m going to sit down in front of the television and watch the opening credits of Doctor Zhivago.

M: You lost me at the end there.

P: Laugh.

M: But I’m happy that you’re prioritising happiness because I think one of the main reasons that so many people are burning out is that we were never taught to live. We were never given permission to prioritise our own needs at times. And women in particular I know, feel this a lot, that guilt about taking time for themselves when they’ve got family and other commitments.

P: Yes.

M: But men, too. And also we were never taught how to live even if we did get past that guilt.

P: Laugh!

M: What is it that I need to do? And it’s not eating fatty, sugary foods and, you know, indulging in alcohol and all those other things. It is all the things we discuss on this show. They bring people happiness.

P: Mmm.

M: So I think it’s really important that you and I in particular are human, because everyone gets this wrong at times.

P: Yeah. Well, I guess that’s the thing isn’t it, that we all have to be kind enough to ourselves to allow that space and when you do take a half hour break, don’t begrudge yourself from it. And if that little voice inside your head starts rearing his little red head, that’s all right, you can push him down because this sort of stuff is really important.

M: Yep.

P: And with all the research that we have done over the past year. It was really easy for me to go, ‘Yeah, na, I’m gonna to sit down, have some food.’

M: That’s so Aussie.

P: Laugh!

M: Yeah, na.

P: Yeah na! Laugh.

M: How’s your sleep going?

P: Oh, well, surprisingly well. Actually, I’m Yeah, I’m waking up a bit, but yeah, I’m getting up early.

M: Are you getting enough sleep?

P: Possibly not, no. I’m getting enough. Technically, I’m getting enough. I’m getting about 6.5 to 7 hours from the research that I have done 7 hours is the minimum from stuff that I’ve done in the Sleep Institute down in Melbourne.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: Dr Ian [not a Doctor], Professor Ian Hickie and all those guys. So, yeah, I am getting about seven… I can’t read that, so there’s no point in crossing it out, laugh.

M: I’m covering it up. So today’s episode, we’re about to dive into it after we get through the International Happiness Day intro.

P: Oh, alright.

M: But it’s all a surprise for Pete. I came across this article and this research and I’ll be leading you blindly through it, laugh!

P: Laugh, she’s about to spring it on me. Petie doesn’t know quite what’s going to happen.

M & P: Laughter.

M: All right well shall we get to it? Shall we get into the topic of today’s episode?

P: You’re in charge, laugh.

M: Which is The Smell of Happiness.

P: Laughter!

M: So today we’re going to talk about a great piece of research that they found on the European Commission’s EU research and innovation magazine about the smell of happiness.

P: I love it. I love it.

M: So, Pete, what smells making you happy?

P: Oooh. Fresh bread.

M: Ah, Bakery. Just walking past any bakery.

P: Yeah, bakery, bakery and butter. Ah, fresh bread definitely makes me happy. I got some lovely flowers this week and I smelt some rose, which was really nice.

M: Awe…

P: So, yeah.

M: I love lemon. Like any lemon and anything lemon scented.

P: Yeah, wow.

M: Love it. Like lemon grass, really strong.

P: Yeah.

M: Yeah.

P: The smell of my herbs make me happy, now that you’re talking about lemons.

M: Mmm.

P: Yeah. If I go into my herb garden and you know, dig around, poke around your hands, smell all thyme-ie, basil-ie and oregano-ish.

M & P: Laughter.

M: Great words, those.

P: Laugh.

M: But we get it.

P: Yeah, And I guess that smell comes out when it’s raining, which it is pouring down at the moment.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: So yeah, that’s very that’s a very vibrant smell, that’s a happy smell.

M: Yep, happy smell.

P: And is that because you, you in general, we in general, as human’s associate actions with those smells, or is it purely the smells?

M: Or memories as well?

P: Yeah, I think it’s memories and meaning behind it.

M: Yep.

P: So for me, my herb garden is a source of happiness. So naturally the smell of herbs are going to make me go “sniff, oh yeah that’s my herb garden”.

M: I think so. I think, it’s triggering happy thoughts.

P: Yeah.

M: So we’re not going to talk about all those happy smells.

P: Ok, laugh.

M: What we’re going to talk about it is some work that a professor at the Department of Information Engineering at the University of Pisa, Italy, so Enzo Pasquale Scilingo.

P: Oh, I love it. Enzo, Enzooo!

M: …So Enzo is doing some work –

P: Laugh.

M: – on a project called Potion.

P: Ooh!

M: Which is researching chemosignals. So they’re the different scents our bodies produce when we feel happy or afraid.

P: Yes.

M: So they’re actually odourless, but they’re believed to trigger happiness or fear in others and impact on people social interaction.

P: I have read a little bit about this, yes.

M: Yes, so it’s like a virus.

P: Laugh.

M: If I’m scared, you won’t know why, but you’ll also start to feel fear unconsciously.

P: It’s picking up on that fear.

M: Yes.

P: It’s picking up on the emotions of someone else and if you’re empathetic as well, taking it on board.

M: Definitely empathy would play a role there but this is all about the… is it olfactory?

P: Yes.

M: It’s all about the olfactory sense, so he’s doing research into smell and odour.

P: Oh, interesting. I like it.

M: Absolutely, so in the same vein the smell of happiness can make other people happy. So if you know happy people, make sure you hug them.

P & M: Laugh!

P: Well touch is my love language, so I’m good.

M: Get nice and close, laugh.

P: Laugh, can I put my nose in your armpit?

M: Just get your nose in there.

P & M: Laughter!

M: So, Enzo hopes that scientists can produce a spray, a happiness spray.

P: Laugh! He’s bottling it!

M: Like perfume. Have you read Perfume the book?

P: Yes, I read it. Oh, no I havn’t read it I’ve seen the movie though.

M: Yes.

P: Wonderful.

M: Yes, absolutely. So, bottling happiness is the goal. And he hopes he can do it within a few years.

P: Wow.

M: And one of the reasons why this is so important and particularly in light of COVID-19 is the horrible mental health stats around the world right now, particularly with young people, anxiety and depression are just on the rise and a happiness spray could actually help to –

P: I like that idea.

M: -negate that.

P: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

M: All right.

P: I wonder if you could use it as deodorant?

M: Hmm. Where do you spray it?

P: I could say something but it would be really, really offensive.

M & P: Laugh!

M: This is a G rated, actually no it’s more like a PG rated show, definitely not G rated.

P: Laugh.

M: We started with foreplay today.

P: We did, laugh. We jumped straight in there.

M: M. M rated.

P: Well it would make sense to sprayed in the areas where other hormone secretions are coming out, so you around the around the neck or into the armpits, or even down around the folds of the hips or the butt.

M: Depends if it’s for you or for others?

P: True.

M: Yep, I think.

P: I immediately went to others actually.

M: Mmm, you were trying to make everyone else happy.

P & M: Laughter!

P: I’m trying to make everyone touch me!

M & P: Laughter.

M: I’m so not surprised we ended up there.

P & M: Laughter!

P: Pulse points, I guess yeah.

M: All right, So let’s look at how it works or what they’re trying to do.

P: Yeah, let’s look at the science behind it because I’m intrigued by this.

M: So researchers start by using videos to induce fear or happiness. So they’re looking at the difference between the two. Obviously, you’ve always gotta have a baseline or a test, you know, something to test against. So they’re using fear and happiness.

P: Yep.

M: So they sit people down in front of movies on make them laugh a lot or get scared. And then they collect their sweat to analyse which chemical compounds are released with each emotion.

P: Mmm. Yep.

M: Okay, they then will synthesise the odours and investigate how they induce emotions in others. So remember a while ago we spoke about people going down a line and smelling sweat. This kind of similar, laugh.

P: Ah… Oh yeah.

M: There’s a lot of work[/research] into sweat, and I think it’s such an unexplored field from, laugh – I mean I’m not an expert in sweat by any means.

P: Laugh.

M: But if there’s a whole lot of unconscious or subconscious things going on that we, because we’re not dogs with an acute sense of smell or something, just don’t know are happening.

P: Mmm.

M: And this is just such a fascinating field, I think.

P: Yeah, yeah.

M: So anyway, eventually, they’re hoping to use people’s responses to Happy Sweat to help psychiatrists understand more about different aspects of phobias and depression, and to maybe helping treatment or compliment traditional therapies for phobias or depression or anxiety.

P: Now that’s interesting, because there is a lot of olfactory use in traditional medicine in terms of herbs and tinctures, using smell as one of the senses that you manipulate if it were, to try and calm, relax, meditate or excite.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: Get people excited, so pepper for example gets people excited. It gets people going and fires things up a little bit more.

M: Would you spray someone else’s sweat on you?

P: I have no problem with it, in the name of science I will do all things.

M: Laugh. If you twisted my arm…

P & M: Laughter!

M: Ok…

P: Are you gonna pay me?

M & P: Laugh.

P: Do I get a free lunch?

M: Probably, if you want to go to Italy.

P: Oh, go and see Enzo, yes!

M & P: Laugh.

P: I like this idea, I think it’s intriguing because it’s using more of what we have available, and it’s investigating areas that perhaps have been overlooked.

M: Yeah, and I think smell is one of those areas.

P: Definitely. Yeah, when you think about it, it’s very powerful. And as we said before, it brings about memories. So especially in the same way that music can bring about memories that helps with people with dementia and Parkinson’s. Maybe this is a way of triggering happy memories for people. So, for people who are suffering from anxiety or psychological stress or even post-traumatic stress disorder.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: This might be another way to manipulate those senses and try and bring about contended memories to balance out the negativity-

M: Better well-being.

P: – and experiences, yeah.

M: Yeah, definitely. So one of the other areas that the researchers have looked into is how odours impact people’s social interactions.

P: Oooh.

M: Yes, so they’re looking at how people have a sense of inclusion or exclusion from others. And previous research into this area has found that a person’s emotional state can influence how they respond to other people but also how others respond to them. And now we would have traditionally without this view said that that would have been more of an empathy or, you know, just sensing that someone else is uncomfortable around you.

P: Yeah.

M: That kind of a reaction. So this takes that further, so if you go into a room and you’re nervous networker.

P: Mmm, yes.

M: You’re making it worse for yourself, and I know that’s just screwed up, right?

P: Laugh.

M: That is so, so tough to overcome if you’re a nervous person, same if you’re a speaker you probably can’t smell the speaker on stage though.

P: Not in a large space.

M: If you’re a speaker in a small room and you’re really nervous. What you’re sending out to people from an odour of perspective is what’s going to come back at you.

P: It comes back to that old saying, you know, predators can smell fear.

M: Absolutely.

P: Dogs or aggressive beasts can smell the fear in you.

M: Yep, absolutely. So if someone is feeling fear when they come in, then people are less likely to trust them.

P: Mmm, definitely.

M: And you don’t bond as well.

P: No, it’s a definite barrier.

M: And people will be wary of you and the reverse is true for happiness. And I’ve definitely seen this, happy people I just gravitate towards them.

P: Completely. I saw it this week in a meeting. Someone who is usually quite jovial has had a bit of a rough month and I noticed it a couple of weeks ago and then this week I noticed a complete change in that person’s demeanour and the way they were greeting people.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And I went, ‘Yeah, you’ve turned it around’ and you can buy into that. Buy into it. You notice it.

M: Yep.

P: Very clearly, especially with people that you know well.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: It’s very easy to get that sense of energy if you like and this is where it does get a bit esoteric, people saying, ‘I’m feeling this from you’. Maybe there’s a scientific basis to that. Maybe we are picking up on scents. Or instead of picking up on energy vibrations.

M: Absolutely. So, there’s a Dr Lisa Roux, in France, who works at the Interdisciplinary Institute for Neuroscience in France, and she says that humans use our sense of smell way more than we think.

P: Mmm.

M: So, it’s more unconscious. But we’re realising more and more that smell is so important to social interaction.

P: Hmm.

M: Which is kind of a bit creepy, but there it is. And one of the things that we now need to throw into the mix is that so many people who’ve had COVID are losing their sense of smell.

P: Hmm.

M: And that can be really devastating to people’s well-being. So, sense of smell is linked to pleasure, but also to depression. And scientists posit that it’s because of the link to the limbic system.

P: Yeah, that make sense.

M: But up to a third of people with a defective sense of smell experience symptoms of depression.

P: Mmm. I wonder if it’s because you’re downgrading one of your primary sensors.

M: Well, I take so much pleasure out of food and you know when you’re sick and you can’t taste anything and you just stop wanting to eat?

P: Yeah, awful.

M: It’s crap!

P & M: Laughter!

M: Really bad.

P: Very true.

M: And that’s just one little thing that – well little, it’s big- impact of not being able to smell. So, you know, I kind of get it. If you let that get to you.

P: I could see where that could go. I could see where it could take you down with it.

M: Yep, definitely.

P: It would be interesting to notice if people were feeling a little bit low, go and sniff something that you know you love.

M: Oh, I love that idea.

P: Go and [sniff]. For me, I’d just have to take myself to a bakery, and stand there like a dog at the front of the bakery sniffing.

M & P: Laugh.

M: Having a bad day? Go stand in front of the bakery.

P: Laugh. Hey, I think it’s a great idea, laugh.

M: Love it. So there’s also a lot of research into animals. And look, I’d be really interested to see whether there is something there. We might not overtly go and smell a dog’s butt or our friend or partners butt –

P: Laugh!

M: – the way that dogs do or the way that mice do as well. So they definitely use smell to form relationships and to create those bonds.

P: Yep.

M: But there is a whole area of research that we still need to do on all of this to see really how much smell impacts our day to day lives.

P: How much we can learn from it, yeah.

M: Yep.

P: I’ve always said life must be really tough being a beagle.

M: Laugh.

P: Can you imagine being a beagle and just wandering around the city going ‘Oh, I can smell it, it’s so good!’ Laugh.

M: Well, they do say that some dogs can smell things like cancer and other…

P: Well, they were testing this with German shepherds smelling COVID.

M: Oh wow.

P: Yeah, there are. Don’t quote me on this, and it was probably totally an article that I shouldn’t be quoting because It’s not an academic article, but yeah, I can’t remember where I saw it but it was a thing about dogs smelling COVID, and they were using that thing and saying we could use this in airports.

M: Oh, I love it.

P: Interesting idea.

M: So, on that note, we’re saying this is just the start of what could be a mind-blowing shift in how we experience the world and see the world, but also could open up a whole range of perfumes.

P & M: Laugh!

M: All your emotions on the shelf, laugh.

P: True.

M: You can pick from moving forward.

P: I’m feeling nonchalant.

M & P: Laugh!

P: I’ll have number three, laugh.

M: Exactly. But the one thing you can do is exactly what you said Pete. If you’re not feeling great, go find a smell that just makes you happy.

P: I love it.

M: Yep.

P: I’m going to be wandering around the bakery across from my work all the time, laugh.

M: For me it would be having a bath and I’ve got a lovely lemongrass oil that I would put in.

P: Nice.

M: Yep.

P: Cool. Play around with it people. Let’s see what your smells do for you.

M: What smell makes you happy? All right, Happy International day of happiness, everybody, and we’ll see you next time.

P: And if you like our little show we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.

M: Until next time.

M & P: Choose happiness.

[Exit music fadeout]

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Is Watching TV Good for your Happiness? (E58)

15/03/2021 by Marie

Happiness for Cynics podcast

This week, Marie and Pete talk about TV watching and whether it is good or bad for your happiness levels. The answer might surprise you.

Transcript

P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.

M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.

M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.

P: Plus, sometimes I think we’re kind of funny.

M: Yay! We’re going to talk about one of… I think, a really controversial topic today, aren’t we Pete?

P: Oooh, well it’s one of my passions actually. If I was to be completely full on with my disclosure.

M: Really?

P: I am a TV addict. Yeah. I always was as a kid.

M: I like TV.

P: It’s gone into my adult years and I’m not [Prudish accent] ‘Oh, I don’t watch television, I just read books.’

Boring! Laugh. Give me Disney.

M: Ok, laugh. Fair, fair.

P: Laugh.

M: I have met people who don’t watch TV and don’t have a TV in their homes. And I often, you know, picture them being lovely families who have family dinners without any –

P: Oh, they’re way more functional.

M: Absolutely.

P: Really, I’m jealous. These people that don’t have TV like Jonathan Piet he was the guy in our year who didn’t have TV. He was really clever.

M: Yep.

P: And he introduced me to Lord of the Rings, there you go.

M: Yep, there you go. So, they’re reading books and they’re listening to podcasts.

P: I know, yeah.

M: They’re just expanding their minds and their horizons.

P: Yeah, so good.

M: And we’re watching…

P: Ha, ha!

M & P: Grace and Frankie. Laughter!

P: Oh my goodness, we just picked the same sitcom.

M & P: Laugh!

P: That’s buddies! Laugh. So we are talking about TV.

M: And TV watching and whether it is good or bad for your happiness.

P: I’m open to this. So I’m flying by the seat of my pants on this one. Marie has found some information and some studies on this.

M: Yes. So I put out a newsletter every week and in part of that I do a lot of reading about latest news, and we are going to be talking about one article that came out in Medical Express within the past week by Christian Van Nieuwerburgh,

P: Yes, well done Muz!

M: Laugh, and Kirsty Gardner-

P: See Kirsty’s name is much easier.

M: Much easier, laugh.

– Called How watching TV in lock down can be good for you, according to science.

P: Wow, It’s all about science.

M: That had me, right there.

P: Laugh!

M: I was like ‘Alright, I’m in!’ And also because there’s this part of me that has been raised and brought up to feel guilty about watching too much TV.

P: Yep, I had that self-imposed actually, I was never told that I shouldn’t watch TV. But you know, Jonathan Piet ruined me, laugh.

M: Yeah, I don’t think my parents, you know, we didn’t watch hours and hours of TV.

P: Mmm.

M: I think that this article in particular starts off by putting it in context of the lockdowns and the increase in people’s TV watching.

P: So people are watching more TV in the pandemic?

M: Absolutely and particularly when they go in to lock down.

P: Yeah, that’s understandable.

M: So, you know, we’re still in the pandemic but in Australia we’re not lock down right now.

P: True.

M: So, we’re still in this weird “in between” right now in Australia. But in countries that are in lock down, in the UK, they talk about stats that showed that during the first lock down, UK streaming and TV watching went up by 30% and people were watching as much as six hours of content a day.

P: [Gasp] Oh, that’s a lot.

M: Yeah, we’re judging now aren’t we?

P: Laugh! I’m a binge watcher, but six hours?

M: Six hours a day!

P: Yeah, wow.

M: That is a lot that.

P: Yeah, that is a lot. I need to clean something in between that.

M & P: Laugh!

M: Well, so they looked at TV watching, and I think just like the social constructs that we apply to ourselves, we just both went ‘eeuurgh, too much.’

P: Laugh.

M: Right?

P: But you can understand why though, you’ve got nowhere to go, you’re not allowed to go outside. So…

M: It makes sense.

P: It make total sense, and you’re like, ‘well, I’m forced to be home, so let’s binge watch that series that I’ve been putting off for two years that everybody else has watched and talking about around the pub.

M: Who did that?

P: Laugh.

M: Repeatedly?

P & M: Laugh.

P: I’m always a late watcher of series.

M: Me too.

P: I’m always two years late. I’m like ‘Have you seen Outlander?’

‘Yeah, it’s in Season five now, Pete.’

… ‘I’ll catch up.’

M: Laugh. I pretty much have to wait for two of my friends to tell me that something is good before I’ll –

P: Before you trust it, laugh.

M: Yeah, my time is limited.

P: Exactly.

M: So not only did TV watching increase by 30% but 12 million people in the UK signed up for a new streaming service during a lock down.

P: Yeah, wow.

M: That’s huge. And then Netflix has now more than 200 million subscribers worldwide. So, we’re watching TV. The question that we still haven’t discussed is whether or not it’s good for you.

P & M: Laughter.

P: Well, I use TV to relax. At the end of a day.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: … I’m usually a pretty active person, like I’ll go to work and I’ll cycle here and I’ll play some volleyball, go to Gym and I’ll do some yoga but them when I get home, and I lie on my lovely couch, that TV is on and it’s like ‘yeah, chill.’ And I’m actually going through a bit of a period now, having gone back to university, where I’m physically not watching television.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: I’m like ‘I’ve gotta read, I’ve gotta study’ and even now I’ll pop something on just for half an hour, usually an opposite of Grace and Frankie. That just lets me unwind or something that I’ve watched before that I don’t necessarily have to focus on. But I use it as that I’m doing nothing.

M: Do you have a sick movie? When you’re home sick, and you put it on and you know it’ll be OK and you fall asleep.

P: Anything on the Disney Channel.

M: Laugh.

P: Where there’s singing and princesses and leading men, laugh.

M: Love it. When I was a kid for me, it was always Annie.

P: Ah.

M: Mum would put the VHS in, laugh.

P: Oh, gosh. Yes, laugh.

M: And I’d have two minute noodles for lunch and creaming soda.

P: Oh Ann Reinking. God bless us all.

M: Yep. So we know that TV can bring us positive emotions as we’ve just talked out there.

P: Yes.

M: And that is the first crux of the argument.

P: Yes.

M: That positive emotions can help with mood and can help with mental well-being.

P: Agreed.

M: And this has been researched by a million different people, including, you know, the father of positive psychology, Martin Seligman.

P: Ooh.

M: So, positive emotions are one of the building blocks of our well-being. So it makes sense if we’re going to watch feel good shows on TV that they’re going to give us positive emotions.

P: Mmm. We need the Hollywood happy ending.

M: Yes, so this is the first lesson. What you watch matters.

P: Laugh, don’t watch Russian drama.

M & P: Laugh. Or French… anything.

P: No Chekov!

M: Laugh.

P: No Irish.

M: It matters what you watch if you want a positive outcome from it.

P: Ok.

M: From a mood perspective, and during a lock down we can all use a little bit more positive and a little bit less negative. So, if your go to is war movies or crying dramas, you might want to change what you normally watch rather than decrease the amount of hours you watch.

P: Is there a sort of cathartic experience, though, in that big drama film that gets you absolutely bawling your eyes out? Laugh. I feel quite uplifted after watching something like that, I feel very satisfied.

M: For six hours a day?

P: …

M: Yeah, So I think that.

P: Laugh.

M: I think the everything in moderation thing is really what we’d would point to here.

P: But does this come back also to the argument of, it’s taking you away from your inside head. So watching a film that’s really engaging and truly beautiful, even though it leaves you in a weeping mess at the end of it, does that still have a positive effect because it’s taking you into awe inspiring and motivating stories and gives you an insight into the ultimate triumph of the human spirit?

M: So, I’d argue there that the things that you said before the I balled for five minutes part.

P: Laugh.

M: Were things that are making you feel good and whether that was a podcast that opened your mind to a whole other field that you’d never considered.

P: Yes.

M: Whether it was the theory of relativity or creating artwork on the streets of Chile or whatever it is that gets your attention and –

P: And holds it.

M: Yep.

P: It has that mindfulness moment that we always talk about.

M: Yep, and creates positive emotions and positive emotions for someone like me. I’m very drawn to intellectual pursuits, and so I could sit there and read for hours on end and feel really good about that. Whereas that might be someone else’s version of hell.

P: Yep.

M: Right? So, it is very subjective.

P: So, it’s a personal perspective.

M: Personal thing. But if, you know, if you find awe,

P & M: Laughter.

M: And then have a bit of a cry. But then overall experience it as a positive emotion or a positive experience, then I’d say that could be beneficial.

P: Good.

M: Definitely. So, Barbara Frederickson and again just coming back to this article because I do want to give credit, where credit’s due. We are discussing an article.

P & M: Laugh.

P: We did not write this stuff.

M: We did not write this, we are just discussing the various parts of this article, so I didn’t want to be in trouble for plagiarism.

P: Thanks Barbara.

M: Laugh.

P: We love your work.

M: So, Barbara Frederickson, as mentioned in this article, talks a lot about – and again another bigwig in the positive psychology space- talks about how experiencing positive emotions could have a long term sustainable impact on well-being. So when we feel good, our minds open and our awareness broadens.

P: Mmm. So we start looking for more feelgood.

M: Yes, absolutely. And this is actually pointing to TV being a really good way to cope with the negative aspects of being in lock down or Covid more broadly.

P: I’ll take that as my excuse next time I’m challenged to binge watch.

M & P: Laugh.

M: So, we have also spoken a million times about how positive experiences and good mood impact your body, your physical body.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: So we won’t necessarily rehash all of that. But all of the great chemicals that run around in your brain definitely still apply in this situation as well. So, good for your mind, good for your body.

P: Unless you’re eating potato chips for six hours a day and pizza and not doing any exercise which can happen in lock down.

M: Well, I’m glad you mentioned that Pete.

P: Oh, did I just lead you into something?

M: Laugh. Because there is a big but!

P: Laughter! I could see my personal trainer friends going ‘What!’

M: A very big but that comes with all of this conversation.

P: [Silly voice] I’ve got a big butt, what’s the big but?

M: TV doesn’t necessarily always make you feel better. And there’s a lot of behaviours that come with TV watching, which can be bad for you.

P: Here we go, strap yourselves in people.

M: So, you’ve already mentioned sitting down for six hours is really not healthy, so anything you could do to encourage movement while you’re watching TV is really good for your body.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: So, if you can put a treadmill in front of the TV or one of those little stair climbers or just do squats on the couch, up and down, up and down or calf raises anything like that in ad breaks.

P: The treadmill works really well. I remember when I didn’t have a TV when I first went back to Sydney. I was living in Potts Point, I used to go to Fitness First Kings Cross because they had TVs in front of the treadmill, I could watch The Simpsons.

M: Maybe that is the trick for people who don’t watch TV. They’re all just in the gyms.

P: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

M: I like this.

P: It was great. I never ran, but I’d run for 30 minutes because I wanted to see the Simpsons.

M: Love it! It actually goes to a lot of the research on habit making.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: If you have something that you want to make a habit. Make it about the reward.

P: Yep.

M: Yep.

P: Yep.

M: Simpson’s, I love it.

Okay, so firstly, sitting [for prolonged periods] is really bad.

Secondly, it opens a lot of people up to binge eating.

So when you’re mindlessly watching TV rather than fully engaged in what you’re watching.

P: Mmm.

M: Our hands and minds tend to wander. We call that mindlessly watching. So, if any of you’ve ever found yourself out on the couch watching TV and also writing to friends on messenger or checking your e mail.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: That’s mindless.

P: Yep, and then all of a sudden, a bag of Doritos has gone when you only intended to wait a half of them.

M: Mmm hmm. Yep.

P: Yes.

M: I mean, I’ve never been there.

P: Laugh!

M: All the doughnuts… I don’t know what you’re talking about Pete?

P: I’m laughing, I’ve seen it! I have evidence!

M & P: Laughter.

M: What doughnuts?

P: Gluten free ones of course.

M: Laugh, oh dear. Moving on.

P: Fairy floss.

M: Fairy floss is on purpose always on purpose.

P: Laugh.

M: So, watching TV mindlessly, apart from the potential weight gain implications of mindless TV watching, that is your danger zone. So, if you are just mindlessly moving through channels to pass the time.

P: The scrolling concept!

M: Yep.

P: So dangerous.

M: Absolutely.

P: And you could do it on devices as well, where you if you’re just mindlessly scrolling and you’re not stopping to purposefully read or purposefully watch, that’s the first sign I think of danger.

M: And the danger here is that you are probably doing that at the expense of other things that a good for your well-being.

P: Yep, Absolutely.

M: So, if you’re spending hours mindlessly scrolling to fill the hours in the day, you’re probably not spending time preparing and cooking healthy meals. You’re probably not spending time going out in exercising socialising with friends, whether it is virtual in the current environment or whether it is actually in person. All of those things are really important. And if we’re scrolling mindlessly for endless hours, it often comes at the expense of all those other activities.

P: Yep, I couldn’t agree more.

M: Yep. And a lot of people will do this the most with their significant other.

P: Now that intrigues me, all these couples sitting down on their devices and not actually looking at each other.

M: Well, I don’t know about you, but I get home from work and I’m naked. So it takes an actual mental effort not to sit on the couch with my husband after dinner. Now we make sure we do device free dinners.

P: Yep.

M: But then after that, it’s not like I want to open a philosophy book and discuss Kant.

P: Oh, no, no, I can understand.

M: So, it is that relax time at the end of the day, and I have an early morning routine, and then I do a 10 hour day at work. And then there’s dinner, and you know by the time we’re done with all that, eeuggh, exactly.

P: True.

M: But what it does mean is that time on the couch. You kind of feel like you spent time with his significant other. But you really haven’t.

P: You haven’t engaged with them.

M: Yeah, absolutely, and that’s a really dangerous place for the relationship to get to is where you are spending time together, but you’re not spending quality time together.

P: Sort of explains the whole concept of the goggle box TV show, doesn’t it.

M: Oh, I love goggle box!

P: People actually conversing whilst they’re watching something I actually when I first heard about this I thought ‘Oh how silly, I don’t want to watch people watching TV’, but the actual idea of it is like ‘yeah, it’s actually discourse and it’s families spending time watching TV and commenting on what they’re seeing.’ And you see different perspectives that’s quality time.

M: And sharing in the experience. So that is again, yeah, like you could have written this article Pete.

P: [derisive noise]

M: That is the next point. If you are going to watch TV with someone else, you can make it a social experience.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: So, don’t fast forward through the ads. Actually, discuss what you’ve seen.

P: Yeah, interact with each other. I like that idea.

M: Absolutely. So, I want to ask Pete if you had to recommend some shows for people in lock down that will bring them positive emotions?

P: Ooh, yes. I’m going to show my nerdy side here.

M: Go for it.

P: I got entranced by an ABC TV series called Searching for Superhuman. It was only a very short serious. I think there were only six episodes and It’s all about the body and our awareness and what we’re doing. And, I’ve actually referenced a lot of the research in our previous podcasts, laugh. I’ve gotten a lot of information from there for a while.

M: Nice.

P: Oh, this is good, and this is good.

M: Laugh.

P: But it was a science programme that was presented, and they had lots of interesting interviews and people talking about different aspects of the body and how we’re ageing and how we can age better and what we need to do in the future on what are current risks are. I found that fascinating.

And possibly anything with David Attenborough.

M: Hmm…

P: Yeah.

M: Well, that comes back to the awe factor that you were talking about.

P: Oh, oh!

M: Laugh, yeah?

P: And there’s another woman [Samantha Morris], I can never remember her name. She’s the animal geek on ABC. What she does is she watches all the Facebook videos of people doing stupid things with wild animals.

M: Laugh!

P: And then she actually breaks down what’s going on. And she’s like ‘Look, the sea lion was ready to pounce. He went down before he came up and grabbed that Chinese girl and pulled her into the ocean.’ She’s very funny, she’s got big glasses and she’s wonderful.

M: Love it. For me, there’s some great recommendations. At the end of this article, they mention Queer Eye, which I love.

P: Oh, yeah.

M: I love all of your HD TV kind of home reno/ makeover.

P: That’s teary.

M: It is but in such a good way. And then definitely, Grace and Frankie.

P: Yes, laugh.

M: I always loved big Bang theory.

P: Oh yes, it’s still a go to, isn’t it?

M: It really is.

P: It’s witty humour, it’s written so well.

M: Absolutely, and Sheldon reminds me of my husband.

P: Laugh, I can’t get that image out of my head now.

M: Laugh, he’s a chemical engineer and student.

P & M: Laughter!

M: So, definitely they’re my go to’s. And we in the house have been watching Brooklyn 99.

P: Oh, ok.

M: So that brings out some laughs as well. The other thing I’ve started getting into is podcasts more recently.

P: Mmm, yes.

M: And audio books, so as I said before, I am drawn to learning new things, novel things, and I definitely spent a lot of time doing that during lockdown.

P: I have that in the car, listening to the BBC World Service, that was very interesting.

M: You know what I miss about the state’s [US], NPR National Public Radio they do some really good broadcasting, worth checking out.

P: Ok.

M: All right, well, on that note, if you find any positive programmes feel free to write in and let us know.

P: Do some research, go and spend six hours in front of a TV, see how you feel?

M: Laugh.

P: Write about it, blog about it, let us know.

M: Yeah, write to us and recommend your TV recommendations for positive emotions. But I think the summary of this article, and of everything we’ve spoken about is it’s all about taking control of your TV watching.

P: Mmm, mmm.

M: So being really, aware of your TV watching habits and when they’re healthy and positive and proactive and when they’re not, when they’re just mindless.

P: Yeah, good options.

M: Yep. So, what is the end conclusion? Is TV watching good for us?

P: I’m saying yes, because science says so.

M: Laugh.

And on that note, I think we’ll finish.

P: Laugh.

During the episode Pete briefly mentions a misadventure to Carcassonne while on holidays and says that they will come to it later in the episode. Unfortunately, they ran out of time to share this anecdote at this time.

P: And if you like our little show we would absolutely love for you to leave a comment or rating to help us out.

M: Until next time.

M & P: Choose happiness.

[Exit music fadeout]

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Planning a Holiday (E57)

08/03/2021 by Marie

Happiness for Cynics podcast

This week, Marie and Pete talk about the science behind planning holidays, and why you need to always have your next holiday planned.

Show notes:

Transcript

[Happy intro music -background]

M: Welcome to happiness for cynics and thanks for joining us as we explore all the things I wish I’d known earlier in life but didn’t.

P: This podcast is about how to live the good life. Whether we’re talking about a new study or the latest news or eastern philosophy, our show is all about discovering what makes people happy.

M: So, if you’re like me and you want more out of life, listen in and more importantly, buy in because I guarantee if you do, the science of happiness can change your life.

P: Plus, sometimes we’re kind of funny.

M: [Excited voice] Welcome back to Happiness for Cynics!

P: Laugh. She’s doing fist bumps people.

M: Laugh. So today we’re talking about why you need to plan your next holiday now.

P: Oh, that’s why you’re excited! We’re talking about your favourite thing to do.

M: Yes!

P: I’ve got to say it, if you’ve ever been on a holiday with Marie, she puts all my spreadsheets to shame.

M: Laugh.

P: Absolute shame.

M: Because, I buy into what we’re talking about today.

P: Oh, do you ever! Laugh.

M: It brings me so much joy to take trips and to explore the world.

P: See, I don’t think Covid would have affected you at all because you would have planned everything and then gone ‘Oh, ok I can’t go but I still get the benefit of actually planning one. Laugh.

M: Well, that is the first point that we’re going to discuss. There is benefit in planning a trip, and some of the research actually shows that just the act of planning your trip can bring as much joy if not more joy than the trip itself.

P: So we should actually plan our Covid holidays. And when they don’t happen, don’t be upset.

M: Or plan holidays that you know you will be able to do regardless what happens. So we went away over Christmas and the way that we planned that was we got a camper van for the first time ever.

P: Laugh.

M: Did something a little different and booked places to visit that were within our state.

P: Oh yeah.

M: So regardless of whether our borders shut or not… yeah. And a lot of people are actually rediscovering towns and cities within their own state.

P: Oh, yeah. The rural areas of New South Wales have had a huge influx. Like Mudgee is going off. For those of you who are our international listeners, Mudgee was a sleepy little town that I knew as a boy way back when had lots of birds and a soccer pitch from memory. Anyway, small little town in the central west of New South Wales. Central west? Or? Yeah, central west I think and it has changed, its turned itself around and become this Airbnb, wine, weekend away mecca.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: And it doesn’t really good job, laugh. And this cute little provincial rural Australian town is doing so well.

M: So if you’re listening, why not plan a trip? To Mudgee.

P: There you go, I want to go. I told my client this afternoon I want to go on.

M: And the research is showing is, going to Mudgee would be great, I am sure, but planning the trip to go to Mudgee so getting online and everyone could do this nowadays.

P: Yep.

M: You don’t have to walk into a travel agent and ask them about Mudgee. You can go and Google or whatever your search engine is. And then look up what there is to do in the area.

P: Yeah.

M: So.

P: And then decide to go to Carcassonne on the way anyway. Laughter!

M: Wrong country.

P: The best laid plans can be adapted, that was my point of that one.

M: Yes, absolutely. So just because you’re planning doesn’t mean that there can be no room for spontaneity.

P: Absolutely.

M: And I would highly encourage room for spontaneity.

P: We did that. It was very fun, anyway, we’ll get to that. That’s a personal anecdote that we’ll do later.

M: One thing that is important when it comes to planning trips is to give yourself enough time to plan ahead.

P: I like this point, because this is thing, I used to be like ‘Oh, I’ll do it all on the plane when I go’.

M: Yes, and what that does is add stress. So not only are you getting on the plane going ‘Oh crap, I haven’t booked the hotel for the first night, I’ve got to do that and hopefully I can find a rental car, or how do I get to the city from the airport?’

P: Laugh.

M: All of that stuff that just makes you a little bit more stressed. If you plan it ahead of time, then things can run a lot more smoothly. And there is research that shows that poorly planned and stressful vacations eliminate the benefits of time away.

P: Oh!

M: So it’s not even worth taking the trip if you’re not going to plan it out ahead of time, and it’s just going to be stressful.

P: Really?! Okay… Personal experience tells me that that’s not necessarily true because there is a certain adventurousness in not planning and going I’m just going to fly by the seat of my pants and turn up in Scotland and see what happens.

M: Which is fine if it’s not stressful.

P: Okay, so that’s the trick.

M: That’s the trick. Would you show up in New Delhi –

P: Laugh.

M: – without plans?

P: Laugh, it could be adventurous?

M: It wouldn’t go so well.

P: The Amazing Race does it?

M & P: Laughter!

M: They’ve got a lot of support around them. And I would argue that it is very stressful still.

P: But I see what you’re saying here. But that also comes back to some of the other stuff that we’ve talked about in other episodes is that changing your mind set. So, if you’re going on an adventure holiday, where you’re going to challenge yourself not to plan anything.

M: Mmm hmm.

P: You have to choose not to get stressed about it and so if you end up sleeping in a ditch on the side of the road at 4 in the morning because you’ve gotten lost in the hire car, then you’ve kind of gotta go, ‘Oh, well, this’s an adventure.’

M: Says the white man.

P: Oh!! Really? Really?

M: As a female sleeping in a ditch in a foreign country is… I wouldn’t sleep.

P: Ok. Oh, alright.

M: Well actually, this is a really good point. And sorry, that was a bit harsh.

P: You just totally shut me down, laugh.

M: There was a study done in 2016, and Shawn Achor & Michelle Gielan, his wife, did a whole lot of research into the benefits of taking your vacation time, taking your holiday time. And they looked specifically at people who were, full time salaried employees who have no excuse not to take their holidays.

P: Yeah.

M: It’s given to you. You get your four weeks a year, and particularly in the States you can lose your holiday. It’s not a thing that you have as much in Australia, but they take it back if you don’t use it a lot of the time over there.

P: Oh, really!

M: And still, a lot of Americans were taking less and less time off. And so there was this idea that it would benefit you in your career to take less time off.

P: Yep.

M: You could do more, your boss doesn’t think you’re a slacker.

P: Is that an old world kind of opinion?

M: Pressure?

P: Is that an old school kind of thinking? 50s, 60s?

M: Well, the research that they did in 2016 debunked that.

P: Yeah, righto.

M: Absolutely debunked it, And America’s a strange case. So, in Europe they’re used to, having four to six weeks in Australia four weeks is pretty standard, I think New Zealand’s pretty similar.

P: Yeah.

M: In America, when I first started and joined a major multinational corporation, I had ten days, so two weeks.

P: Oh! Wow.

M: And after five years, you go up to 15 days, and after ten years you get to your full four weeks and you have to work up to that four weeks. And still a lot of Americans don’t take their full allocation of leave.

P: You hear of this a lot actually. Americans not buying into that whole time off aspect of work.

M: And they’re working longer hours too. The work culture in America is definitely going the opposite direction from the Nordic countries.

P: Mmm, interesting.

M: And even New Zealand and now Australia are even talking in a lot of companies about doing four day weeks. Whereas Americans are not doing 40 hour weeks, they’re doing 50 and 60 hour weeks.

P: Mmm.

M: And not taking their holidays.

P: Yeah, that’s not good for you long term, either.

M: No, absolutely.

This study back to the point we were talking about before, talked about the things that you need to get the most benefit out of your holiday.

P: Ok.

M: So firstly, planning ahead.

P: Yeah.

M: Two, creating social connections on the trip. So, it’s great if you could go with your family or friends.

P: Ok.

M: But if not, then do activities where you can meet other people. So group activities where you can be social.

P: Museum tours.

M: With other people? Sure. Don’t be 100% by yourself if you are travelling.

P: Yeah, well it was always nice to have a connection there that would meet for lunch or something, or that you’re meeting up with friends later on in the trip.

M: Yeah.

P: That was actually a really good way. And it’s something that I have actually maintained with my holiday planning is I’ll often go three days earlier, have my solo time and then catch up with the group.

M: The research shows that having some social time is beneficial.

P: Communal time, social activity is beneficial, yeah.

M: Three go far away from your work. And I think this is a digital and physical requirement.

P & M: Laughter!

P: Yes, I agree. Don’t take the computer.

M: Yes. Turn off… well, no one has blackberries anymore.

P: Laugh. Showing your age Muz.

M: Don’t take your work phone with you if you can.

And the next one was a feeling of safety.

P: Huh.

M: And this goes back to you sleeping in a ditch which, when I was 18 I probably would have thought was fine. But now, with a little bit of hindsight, I can see the danger in me sleeping in a ditch.

P: Laugh, true.

M: So as long as you feel safe, then I do agree with you, go for it, add a little spontaneity. Don’t book some stuff. Give yourself the freedom to just explore without any set agenda.

P: And be reactive, yeah.

M: If you’re the kind of person that that doesn’t bring stress to. Or you know you can do it in safety.

P: So, know the kind of traveller you are.

M: Yeah.

P: OK, that makes sense. I like that.

M: And if it’s not going to impact your safety. So if you’re a female travelling by yourself, there’s a whole slew of other things you need to just be aware of, particularly in quite a few countries that aren’t comfortable with Australia.

P: True. I remember rescuing two twins from America in Italy once. These two girls got off the train – this’s the classic case, so I had not planned my accommodation. I actually, no I had. I planned my accommodation when I landed in umm… where was I going?

M: That place.

P: Northern Italy. Yeah, up the top, that area, laugh.

M: Milan?

P: Milan, there we go! And so I was planning my accommodation. I got there and the youth hostel was closed and I spent six hours in the winter walking around trying to find a room that I could afford, and you are my very basic Italian it was very, very difficult. Eventually, I found one on was so grateful and then went out for a bite to eat. I think I went out for Maccas of all things.

M: Laugh.

P: And as I was walking past the train station, these two young American girls had gotten off the train with their backpacks and they had no idea what they were doing and they had no accommodation. And so, me being the good old Ozzie went, That’s okay ‘I can speak Italian.’

M & P: Laughter.

P: And went door knocking with them –

M: Awwww.

P: – trying to find a motel that they could afford and they found one, which was great. But I see what you’re saying about safety that’s really important and I did look at these two American girls going, ‘Oh, dear, you’ve got less of an idea that what I’ve got.’ Laugh.

M: Mmm hmm.

So, the things [for planning a successful holiday] are:

You need to plan ahead;
You need to create social connections;
You need to go far from your work; and
You need to feel safe.

And if you do those four things, the 94% of vacations have a good return on investment in terms of your energy and outlook. When you return to work. As long as you plan the trip well in advance.

P: I like this point, can we expand on this a little bit? The investment in a holiday?

M: Yes.

P: It is an investment.

M: It is. It’s about taking time for you.

P: To re-energise and that’s coming from someone who did work for six years without a holiday.

M: Cray cray..

P: Yeah, and I didn’t realise it at the time, and it took my business coach, the lovely Wally Salinger, Ah, Wally, I miss you. Waking me up at 7 am with cups of tea when I haven’t woken up for our 7 am meeting yet. Umm, not every business coach gets that, but yes.

M: Laugh.

P: I just spent all these years just working, working because my came from that work ethic of you keep working, you don’t take holidays, you keep going because you think that it’s more beneficial and Wally and his partner decided to encourage me to take my first holiday and bought me my first three nights in Amsterdam for the accommodation and said, ‘You’re going, you’re finally investing in this and here’s your little prize’. So I had my three nights of accommodation in Amsterdam, but that trip, I came back full of beans. I came back with so much energy and clarity on I’d had the chance to step away from my work and got perspective on things.

I think that was the real advantage of the investment. So that then I came back and started planning yearly holidays. I was like, I’m gonna have a holiday in October and it was the best thing I could have done.

M: I am prone to burn out.

P & M: Laugh!

M: I’m not very good at saying no, and I take a lot on at work and I’m bit of a perfectionist.

P: Mmm hmm.

M: And so, year after year, I get to my holiday and I am just frazzled and stressed and low on resilience.

P: Yep.

M: And I know these that these are things I’m still working on.

P & M: Laughter.

M: But every time I take a holiday, I come back with so much more clarity, so much more emotional resilience, so much more of an ability to plan and think strategically, and to get out of the weeds and get out of the emotion and be such a better employee and to actually like my job again.

P: Yeah, yeah.

M: So, we know that it makes sense to take time off work. It’s good for you. It’s good for your career progression, it’s good for your success at work. It lowers your stress, makes you happier at home and at work. But also in a time of a global pandemic and we started talking about this before. The act of planning a trip is so beneficial to your mental health.

P: Mmm.

M: So planning future travel, boosts your mood and your mindset. It’s about having hope and something to look forward to. It increases your happiness, and it can help fill a little bit of a void.

P: I think definitely filling the void is the thing because people feel that they aren’t in control of the immediate future because everything is on hold. But in the planning of it, it can be like a bit of an adventure. It’s like, OK, so we’ve got these perimeters. Let’s make a holiday with these restrictions.

M: Yep.

P: And this idea of only travelling 200 kilometres away, but let’s do it in a dinghy!

M & P: Laugh.

P: Or on a tricycle.

M: Why not?

P: Laugh, only carrying a backpack, whilst reciting Shakespeare.

M: Laugh. If that’s your jam, go for it.

P: It’s a choose your own adventure.

M: Absolutely. Get creative and you can do it as a joint social activity, you know, let the kids decide where they want to have a dinner one night.

P: Oh, that’s dangerous, that is dangerous. Laugh!

M: And plan it together so you can share the planning of the holiday as well.

P: So it’s important. I guess that’s the other point is to involve the social group. If you’re going away with the kids, let the kids be part of that planning because that will increase their anticipation and their ownership, and they get the benefit of the planning as well.

M: Absolutely and if you’re going with friends, there’s great tools, Airbnb allows you to share, Trip adviser, a lot of apps nowadays are really just built for sharing and doing things together.

P: They are, yeah.

M: Planning together, definitely. So there’s recent research. So, The study we were talking about before about the workplace was a 2016 study. But there is a 2021 study conducted by The Institute for Applied Positives Research, which found that 97% of respondents report that having a trip planned makes them happier.

P: Mmm.

M: And I think this is about having hope right?

P: Yeah.

M: It’s about having something to look forward to and something –

P: It’s a bit of a placebo effect.

M: Umm..

P: Because you’ve got something to look forward to, so therefore you get the benefit, even if it doesn’t happen.

M: Well, no then you’d be disappointed. So don’t plan for something that – we’re not going to Italy this year like, let’s be really honest.

P: Laugh.

M: But we can plan to do something within our state and have a high level of confidence that we’ll be able to do it.

P: I guess what I’m saying is that even in the planning of it and if you get together and have a few Italian themed dinners, if something happens and you don’t get to go to Italy, you can still go ‘Ah, we’ll just go up the road to the Italian restaurant again and speak Italian to them.’

M: Laugh.

P: That’ll be enough, and that could actually, you know, you still get the placebo effect in a way.

M: Sure, of the planning?

P: Yes.

M: But then you still get the disappointment. I would argue for maybe planning future trips but not booking anything.

P: Oh, yeah.

M: And then planning trips, planning for trips that you can most likely take.

P: True, losing money would be stressful and horrible and not fun.

M: Yeah, definitely. And I think it all comes down to a great concept that I heard from Tal Ben Shahar, who’s running the Happiness Academy course that I’m currently doing. And he was saying that ‘you’re only old when you look to the past more than to the future.’

P: Ahh, I’ve heard this idea, and I totally agree.

M: Absolutely.

P: You need to have some future progression and stop thinking back on things, back on the good old days and back on when I was 23 full of vigour.

M: And there is benefit to looking back.

P: There is, yeah, there definitely is. But you’ve got to balance that. It’s going to be a balancing with what’s to come and excitement about the future as well.

M: Yep. And unfortunately, so many people just cancelled all future plans. Birthdays were cancelled, Christmas was cancelled, travel was cancelled when the pandemic hit, everything was wiped off our calendars and we had no choice but to look back and all the things we used to be able to do.

P: True.

M: And it wasn’t with just pure nostalgia. It was nostalgia with a bit of bitterness, Laugh.

P: True, laugh. [Singing] ‘Nobody knows the trouble I’ve seen.’

M & P: Laughter!

M: This is about balancing that. I think that’s perfect word, there Pete, balancing and giving ourselves a bit of hope for something to do in the future.

P: Mmm, I like that idea. Holiday is hope, it’s a double H.

M: Yep. Laugh, love it. Well on that note we’ll finish up.

P: Plan your next holiday and have some hope.

M: Yes, get out of here.

P: Laugh! Bye!

M: Bye.